Rep. Wilson calls Obama a liar -then shuts down his website

modsquad

Mamacita wrote: Modsquad and Parker, you both have a dizzying intellect.

Bush fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous of -is never get involved in a land war in Asia.

Don't make fun Mamacita, I'm not in the mood!

On your second point. True enough.

pokersloper

Mamacita wrote: Modsquad and Parker, you both have a dizzying intellect.

Bush fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous of -is never get involved in a land war in Asia.

Probably said with a straight face while Obama is pouring troops into Afghanistan. So funny.

pokersloper

Carnivore wrote: [quote=modsquad]Carnivore, you're the one who poured gasoline on this thread. You're the one who says Joe Wilson sucks cock. You're the one that says Glenn Beck kills girls. You're the one that says some predictable cartoon represents the whole Republican Party. Go back and show us your sources. Now your the one who wishes to rely on some understood etiquette for citing facts. I say here's my shoe!

So I guess that means that you can't explain how Bush took Iraq's long history into account in deciding to invade and occupy the country...

8 years is funny. Are you still trying to crawl out of that corner?

As the Palestinians if looking at 8 years is a good way to look at history.
As the Israelis if looking at 8 years is a good way to look at history.
Ask the Iranians, the Iraqis, the people living in war torn Afghanistan...

Looking at 8 years and calling it history is something that one would expect from a colonialist perspective. With all of Obama's missteps, lies and broken promises, at least he understands that the problems in the Middle East are deep, not shallow.

8 years. So funny.

modsquad

pokersloper wrote:
Mod, okay, I finally have to disagree with you. Are you honestly suggesting that Carnivore is holding himself to a standard?

Sorry pokersloper, I've seemed to of lost my way and my shoes, not to mention my lunch. What were we talking about anyway?
Oh yeaaaah... Standards! Never heard of em.
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9On3-x6YRfI/SUhe2HpNdUI/AAAAAAAABKc/30sH1e9qkzI/s400/White_Trash_Puking1.jpg


(MOD NOTE: if you want a NSFW puke pic, cut/paste link above)

MOD

MOD NOTE: no one wants to see those pictures of puke. I suggest you guys share emails and keep that to yourself/

pokersloper

modsquad wrote: Carnivore, you're the one who poured gasoline on this thread. You're the one who says Joe Wilson sucks cock. You're the one that says Glenn Beck kills girls. You're the one that says some predictable cartoon represents the whole Republican Party. Go back and show us your sources. Now your the one who wishes to rely on some understood etiquette for citing facts. I say here's my shoe!

Mod,

I think the reason that libs in the states don't throw shoes is that it is hard to aim when you can't see. I mean, a President who makes all those promises only to break them? It is a good thing for President Obama that many of his supporters look like this:

carnivore

pokersloper wrote: [quote=Carnivore][quote=modsquad]Carnivore, you're the one who poured gasoline on this thread. You're the one who says Joe Wilson sucks cock. You're the one that says Glenn Beck kills girls. You're the one that says some predictable cartoon represents the whole Republican Party. Go back and show us your sources. Now your the one who wishes to rely on some understood etiquette for citing facts. I say here's my shoe!

So I guess that means that you can't explain how Bush took Iraq's long history into account in deciding to invade and occupy the country...

8 years is funny. Are you still trying to crawl out of that corner?

As the Palestinians if looking at 8 years is a good way to look at history.
As the Israelis if looking at 8 years is a good way to look at history.
Ask the Iranians, the Iraqis, the people living in war torn Afghanistan...

Looking at 8 years and calling it history is something that one would expect from a colonialist perspective. With all of Obama's missteps, lies and broken promises, at least he understands that the problems in the Middle East are deep, not shallow.

8 years. So funny.

You are modsquad are the ones in a corner, after trying to make the ridiculous claim that anyone prior to the Bush administration is responsible for us invading Iraq. Of course there is always a context, but nothing any President before Bush did made an invasion and occupation of Iraq inevitable. But go ahead, keep making fun of an argument I never made. It doesn't make you look clever.

pokersloper

Carnivore wrote: [quote=pokersloper][quote=Carnivore][quote=modsquad]Carnivore, you're the one who poured gasoline on this thread. You're the one who says Joe Wilson sucks cock. You're the one that says Glenn Beck kills girls. You're the one that says some predictable cartoon represents the whole Republican Party. Go back and show us your sources. Now your the one who wishes to rely on some understood etiquette for citing facts. I say here's my shoe!

So I guess that means that you can't explain how Bush took Iraq's long history into account in deciding to invade and occupy the country...

8 years is funny. Are you still trying to crawl out of that corner?

As the Palestinians if looking at 8 years is a good way to look at history.
As the Israelis if looking at 8 years is a good way to look at history.
Ask the Iranians, the Iraqis, the people living in war torn Afghanistan...

Looking at 8 years and calling it history is something that one would expect from a colonialist perspective. With all of Obama's missteps, lies and broken promises, at least he understands that the problems in the Middle East are deep, not shallow.

8 years. So funny.

You are modsquad are the ones in a corner, after trying to make the ridiculous claim that anyone prior to the Bush administration is responsible for us invading Iraq. Of course there is always a context, but nothing any President before Bush did made an invasion and occupation of Iraq inevitable. But go ahead, keep making fun of an argument I never made. It doesn't make you look clever.

Carnivore,

You wrote, "The Iraq war and our current economic troubles have their roots in the past 8 years, not the past 30."

This is simply false. History runs deep everywhere, including the Middle East and Iraq. History is not shallow and history will not be held captive to your Bush hate. It is funny that you insist on putting yourself back in the corner.

doctorj

Carnivore wrote:
... trying to make the ridiculous claim that anyone prior to the Bush administration is responsible for us invading Iraq. Of course there is always a context, but nothing any President before Bush did made an invasion and occupation of Iraq inevitable.

People are forever claiming that no matter what, they won't turn out like their parents. But then one day you turn around, and you realise you're sending aircraft carriers into the gulf.

eggcream

December 16, 1998
Web posted at: 8:51 p.m. EST (0151 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- From the Oval Office, President Clinton told the nation Wednesday evening why he ordered new military strikes against Iraq.

The president said Iraq's refusal to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors presented a threat to the entire world.

"Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons," Clinton said.

Operation Desert Fox, a strong, sustained series of attacks, will be carried out over several days by U.S. and British forces, Clinton said.

"Earlier today I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton.

Clinton also stated that, while other countries also had weapons of mass destruction, Hussein is in a different category because he has used such weapons against his own people and against his neighbors.

eggcream

ARE AL QAEDA'S links to Saddam Hussein's Iraq just a fantasy of the Bush administration? Hardly. The Clinton administration also warned the American public about those ties and defended its response to al Qaeda terror by citing an Iraqi connection.

For nearly two years, starting in 1996, the CIA monitored the al Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, Sudan. The plant was known to have deep connections to Sudan's Military Industrial Corporation, and the CIA had gathered intelligence on the budding relationship between Iraqi chemical weapons experts and the plant's top officials. The intelligence included information that several top chemical weapons specialists from Iraq had attended ceremonies to celebrate the plant's opening in 1996. And, more compelling, the National Security Agency had intercepted telephone calls between Iraqi scientists and the plant's general manager.

Iraq also admitted to having a $199,000 contract with al Shifa for goods under the oil-for-food program. Those goods were never delivered. While it's hard to know what significance, if any, to ascribe to this information, it fits a pattern described in recent CIA reporting on the overlap in the mid-1990s between al Qaeda-financed groups and firms that violated U.N. sanctions on behalf of Iraq.

The clincher, however, came later in the spring of 1998, when the CIA secretly gathered a soil sample from 60 feet outside of the plant's main gate. The sample showed high levels of O-ethylmethylphosphonothioic acid, known as EMPTA, which is a key ingredient for the deadly nerve agent VX. A senior intelligence official who briefed
reporters at the time was asked which countries make VX using EMPTA. "Iraq is the only country we're aware of," the official said. "There are a variety of ways of making VX, a variety of recipes, and EMPTA is fairly unique."

That briefing came on August 24, 1998, four days after the Clinton administration launched cruise-missile strikes against al Qaeda targets in Afghanistan and Sudan (Osama bin Laden's headquarters from 1992-96), including the al Shifa plant. The missile strikes came 13 days after bombings at U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania killed 257 people--including 12 Americans--and injured nearly 5,000. Clinton administration officials said that the attacks were in part retaliatory and in part preemptive. U.S. intelligence agencies had picked up "chatter" among bin Laden's deputies indicating that more attacks against American interests were imminent.

The al Shifa plant in Sudan was largely destroyed after being hit by six Tomahawk missiles. John McWethy, national security correspondent for ABC News, reported the story on August 25, 1998:

Before the pharmaceutical plant was reduced to rubble by American cruise missiles, the CIA was secretly gathering evidence that ended up putting the facility on America's target list. Intelligence sources say their agents clandestinely gathered soil samples outside the plant and found, quote, "strong evidence" of a chemical compound called EMPTA, a compound that has only one known purpose, to make VX nerve gas.

Then, the connection:

The U.S. had been suspicious for months, partly because of Osama bin Laden's financial ties, but also because of strong connections to Iraq. Sources say the U.S. had intercepted phone calls from the plant to a man in Iraq who runs that country's chemical weapons program.

carnivore

Eggcream, even Cheney has stopped trying to sell that connection.

doctorj

eggcream wrote: ARE AL QAEDA'S links to Saddam Hussein's Iraq just a fantasy of the Bush administration?

Yes. (Excepting that some outside the Bush administration, such as yourself, may have adopted this bizarre fantasy). For starters, the two could barely have been more opposed in terms of ideology or practical aims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-Ethyl_methylphosphonothioic_acid

carnivore

pokersloper wrote: Carnivore,

You wrote, "The Iraq war and our current economic troubles have their roots in the past 8 years, not the past 30."

This is simply false. History runs deep everywhere, including the Middle East and Iraq. History is not shallow and history will not be held captive to your Bush hate. It is funny that you insist on putting yourself back in the corner.

Of course attitudes between the Middle East and the West have been influenced by every interaction since the Crusades. However, that is entirely irrelevant to the Bush administration's decision to invade and occupy Iraq (the direct cause of our current Iraq troubles).

Again, continue arguing against something I never said if you don't feel like discussing this seriously.

pokersloper

Carnivore wrote: [quote=pokersloper]Carnivore,

You wrote, "The Iraq war and our current economic troubles have their roots in the past 8 years, not the past 30."

This is simply false. History runs deep everywhere, including the Middle East and Iraq. History is not shallow and history will not be held captive to your Bush hate. It is funny that you insist on putting yourself back in the corner.

Of course attitudes between the Middle East and the West have been influenced by every interaction since the Crusades. However, that is entirely irrelevant to the Bush administration's decision to invade and occupy Iraq (the direct cause of our current Iraq troubles).

Again, continue arguing against something I never said if you don't feel like discussing this seriously.

Carnivore,

You wrote, "The Iraq war and our current economic troubles have their roots in the past 8 years, not the past 30."

This statement by you is inaccurate, based on Bush hate, completely removed from an in-depth historical perspective and very much in line with a colonialist view of the world. The idea that the Iraq war, or any war, is based on eight years of history is to suggest that people's experiences and history just don't count. I reject your view that the Iraq war (or any war for that matter) has roots as shallow as eight years.

carnivore

pokersloper wrote: Carnivore,

You wrote, "The Iraq war and our current economic troubles have their roots in the past 8 years, not the past 30."

This statement by you is inaccurate, based on Bush hate, completely removed from an in-depth historical perspective and very much in line with a colonialist view of the world. The idea that the Iraq war, or any war, is based on eight years of history is to suggest that people's experiences and history just don't count. I reject your view that the Iraq war (or any war for that matter) has roots as shallow as eight years.

You're being deliberately obtuse, and repeating yourself rather than actually responding to the substance of what I said.

pokersloper

Carnivore wrote: [quote=pokersloper]Carnivore,

You wrote, "The Iraq war and our current economic troubles have their roots in the past 8 years, not the past 30."

This statement by you is inaccurate, based on Bush hate, completely removed from an in-depth historical perspective and very much in line with a colonialist view of the world. The idea that the Iraq war, or any war, is based on eight years of history is to suggest that people's experiences and history just don't count. I reject your view that the Iraq war (or any war for that matter) has roots as shallow as eight years.

You're being deliberately obtuse, and repeating yourself rather than actually responding to the substance of what I said.

Wrong, I have responded to what you have said. You are the one repeating yourself and you are the one who has backed yourself into a corner. Is this when you find me guilty of libel? So funny.

Perhaps you could actually respond to what I have written and stop being obtuse.

pokersloper

pokersloper wrote: [quote=Carnivore][quote=pokersloper]Before Carnivore came along, I thought the creation of the Middle East was complicated, going back many years, many wars, many leaders, and with many grievances. Apparently, as Carnivore says, it all goes back 8 years. Bush hate is so funny.

What I am saying is not that that history didn't exist, but that Bush did not seem to consider any of those things in deciding to invade. If you have evidence to say otherwise, please show it.

Smart move Carnivore. You can't support your 8 year theory of history, so you change it and modify. Good move. You finally got out of that corner.

You might be right about what Bush did and did not consider. To be fair, we really don't know what Bush considered. I voted for Bush (the second time) and found out that he is not the brightest bulb on the tree. As I have said all along, I supported the war in Iraq from a human rights perspective. I know, you may find that hard to believe, but unlike many Democrats and many Republicans, I actually believe in human rights for all (not just Americans) and can hold my nose and vote for Bush because of my beliefs.

Funny how you briefly attempted to dig out of your corner. Also funny how you didn't respond to this. Perhaps it is hard for your to talk with people who don't fit into your Fox News stereotypes. Big world outside of NYC, with lots of different views. Some of those views are formulated and go back past 8 years. So funny.

carnivore

:roll:

pokersloper

Carnivore wrote: :roll:

A smiley face is nice. At least, nicer then finding me guilty of libel.

carnivore

pokersloper wrote: ...nicer then finding me guilty of libel.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

pokersloper

:roll:

so funny

mr. met

Before Carnivore came along, I thought the creation of the Middle East was complicated, going back many years, many wars, many leaders, and with many grievances. Apparently, as Carnivore says, it all goes back 8 years. Bush hate is so funny.

Parkersloper,

I've just been catching up on this thread, and i just wanted let you know that you completely made this up. Carnivore never said anything about the history of the middle east going back 8 years. looks like you LIED.

pokersloper

mr. met wrote:

Before Carnivore came along, I thought the creation of the Middle East was complicated, going back many years, many wars, many leaders, and with many grievances. Apparently, as Carnivore says, it all goes back 8 years. Bush hate is so funny.

Parkersloper,

I've just been catching up on this thread, and i just wanted let you know that you completely made this up. Carnivore never said anything about the history of the middle east going back 8 years. looks like you LIED.

Wrong, please stop lying Mr. Met.

I have quoted Carnivore as saying "The Iraq war and our current economic troubles have their roots in the past 8 years, not the past 30."

Keep digging that hole!



so funny.

eggcream

Carnivore wrote: Eggcream, even Cheney has stopped trying to sell that connection.

:roll:

pokersloper

Mr. Met,

I hope you and Carnivore don't find me being guilty of libel. My world would just come crashing down.



so funny, even the kittens are laughing.

eggcream

mr. met wrote:

Before Carnivore came along, I thought the creation of the Middle East was complicated, going back many years, many wars, many leaders, and with many grievances. Apparently, as Carnivore says, it all goes back 8 years. Bush hate is so funny.

Parkersloper,

I've just been catching up on this thread, and i just wanted let you know that you completely made this up. Carnivore never said anything about the history of the middle east going back 8 years. looks like you LIED.

"
Obama is responsible for addressing the problems that Bush's administration created, yes. But the root of the problems lie with Bush, not from 30 years ago, as modsquad claimed." ~Carnivore

eggcream

Now I see the problem

pokersloper

eggcream wrote: [quote=mr. met]

Before Carnivore came along, I thought the creation of the Middle East was complicated, going back many years, many wars, many leaders, and with many grievances. Apparently, as Carnivore says, it all goes back 8 years. Bush hate is so funny.

Parkersloper,

I've just been catching up on this thread, and i just wanted let you know that you completely made this up. Carnivore never said anything about the history of the middle east going back 8 years. looks like you LIED.

"
Obama is responsible for addressing the problems that Bush's administration created, yes. But the root of the problems lie with Bush, not from 30 years ago, as modsquad claimed." ~Carnivore

Yup, I agree, the best response to Carnivore and Mr. Met is simply reminding them of Carnivore's shallow, Bush hating, neo-colonialist view of the world. 8 years. So funny even the dogs are laughing.

mr. met

I have quoted Carnivore as saying "The Iraq war and our current economic troubles have their roots in the past 8 years, not the past 30."

i have you quoted as follows (just like i posted before):

Before Carnivore came along, I thought the creation of the Middle East was complicated, going back many years, many wars, many leaders, and with many grievances. Apparently, as Carnivore says, it all goes back 8 years. Bush hate is so funny.

here you are talking about the middle east, not the iraq war.

YOU LIED.