Why don't white liberals come and say it they don't want

armchair_warrior

Subject: Why don't white liberals come and say it they don't want

asians in colleges. damn white liberal racist.


Asians may face tougher college admission process, study finds
By Melanie Jearlds
Staff Writer
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Published: Monday, October 12th, 2009
Asian applicants may face discrimination in the admission process at many elite universities, according to data from a recent study conducted by sociology professor Thomas Espenshade GS ’72.

According to the data, not all races are considered equal in the college admissions game. Of students applying to private colleges in 1997, African-American applicants with SAT scores of 1150 had the same chances of being accepted as white applicants with 1460s and Asian applicants with perfect 1600s.

The results of the study come three years after Jian Li, a rejected Princeton applicant, filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights. He alleged in the complaint that he had been discriminated against based on his race when he was denied admission to the University.

Espenshade noted that he did not initially use the word “discrimination” when discussing the results of his study. Though he found a 140-point SAT score discrepancy between accepted white and Asian students, he did not have access to what he called “soft variables,” like extracurriculars and teacher recommendations.

“The data we had is only part of the data that admission deans have access to,” Espenshade said. “If we had access to the full range of info, it could put Asian candidates in a different light. This so-called ‘Asian disadvantage’ does not necessarily mean that Asian applicants are being discriminated against.”

Also, since the study used data from 1997, “it would be desirable to replicate the study on more recent data,” Espenshade said. “It’s kind of hard to know how and to what extent things might have changed in the meantime.”

When asked about University admission policies in light of Li’s complaint, University spokeswoman Cass Cliatt ’96 told The Daily Princetonian in September 2008 that “Princeton does not discriminate on the basis of race, color or national origin, and our admission policy is in full compliance with Title VI of the [Civil Rights Act of 1964].”

Because his study did not include research done about Princeton’s admission policies, Espenshade said that he had “no empirical basis for having an opinion” about whether or not any possible discrimination occurred at the University.

Espenshade also noted that Li’s complaint does not mark the first time these concerns have been raised.

A look into Harvard’s admission policies in the 1990s showed that, after preferences for legacy students and athletes was removed, there was no discrimination against Asians based on race.

Still, Espenshade said he was surprised that Li decided to file a complaint against only Princeton, as Li was also rejected by Harvard, MIT, Stanford and Penn.

Yet Li’s sentiments are in line with Espenshade’s perceptions of the feelings of the Asian members of the University community. Espenshade explained that his informal conversations with Asian have led him to note the general feeling that they are held to a higher standard in college admissions.

“When Jian Li filed his complaint, it reinforced in their minds that they have to be twice as good as everyone else,” he said.

Espenshade also found in his study that low-income minorities, but not necessarily low-income white students, had an edge in admissions.

Also, according to the results, which will be published in a book to be released in December, the very richest applicants generally had lower acceptance rates than similarly qualified but less wealthy students.

Though Espenshade said he doesn’t know what could account for discrimination in admission policies, he noted that a lot depends on what universities are looking for in the perfect candidate.

“What I have concluded is that every university has in its mind an ideal shape of its entering freshman class,” he said. “If the shape of the applicant pool differs, then there is sculpting that has to be done.”


http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/10/12/24103/

domino

In the perfect universe, we would all have the perfect support network behind us to facilitate learning and access to quality primary and high school educations. Admissions to universities would be based upon a set criteria which would factor in SATs, gradepoints, extra-curricular activities and community service. Unfortunately, that is not the case.

How do you propose to determine between two applicants with equal SAT scores and gradepoints, but one was a single teen mom and the other was a child who did not have any other responsibilities BUT to study? How do you decide between two equal candidates when one had primary responsibility for siblings and contributing to the household financially and the other had 15 hours of religious studies per week?

SATs and gradepoints cannot be the sole determining factors for admission; for example, there are programs within the universities for which the gradepoints and SATs would be irrelevant - would a musical prodigy with poor SATs and gradepoint average be automatically rejected from a classical musical program?

The cry of reverse discrimination has been used frequently - I forgot the name of the case where a white male student was not accepted into a prestigious law school and a black male student with comparable credentials was. But it was never disclosed as to the non-quantified criteria which qualified one applicant over another.

Not being the product of an ivy league education myself - please also enlighten me as to the use of liberal and racist as applied to the same person. Is this not contradictory?

danielle123

I think you are referreing to Regents of the University of California v. Bakke (1978):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regents_of_the_University_of_California_v._Bakke

scarlett

I loved all the asians I went to college with- especially the Koreans.

armchair_warrior

i'm mostly talking about old white liberals, i meet a few over the years. hell i dated one's child once they were racist as hell but not towards blacks.

scarlett

Oh I am an old white liberal. I'm 16!

armchair_warrior

scarlett wrote: Oh I am an old white liberal. I'm 16!

old white liberals = anyone who is over 40+. alot of them are still stuck in the black and white race relations.

scarlett

I try to practice ebony and ivory relations at least once a month.

domino

Geez - I never realized I was classified as an old white liberal. I guess growing up in the 60's and 70's being exposed to a variety of races, religions and ethnic backgrounds in Sunset Park/Borough Park made me really focus on the black/white relations. My first best friend in kindergarten was Irish, my next bestest friend was Chinese. Never even KNEW from racism - although Helen's mom cooked way tastier food than Shiela's mom - does that count? I am a food racist!

nightshift

Don't worry, Domino...you are not alone. According to AW, I am an old, white liberal too

armchair_warrior

don't be insulted ;p its easier to generalize than go down in tiny min specifics lol. who has time to do that.

who supports affirmative action and keeps asians out of top schools? white liberals. just to make artificial "diversity" , diversity should come naturally not from busing or forcing and choosing base on race or background.

idlewild

What's the difference between someone getting in because of AA and someone getting in because they're Legacy or they get recommendations and kudos from alumni or other heavy hitters? Especially when they're grades don't reflect the station they want to delve in to? The word "merit" doesn't even seem to apply to much anymore.

armchair_warrior

Legacy sucks ass much as AA. Merit doesn't apply anymore. People feel way too entitled to things these days.

domino

Again, maybe being an old white liberal diversity did not come so naturally in the past - I was here in Brooklyn for the Great White Flight to Staten Island and the suburbs during the 1970s. The minute there was a hint of change in a neighborhood, the white families were either gone or the kids sent to private schools.

That aside, I do not think affirmative action or legacies keep Asian students out of top schools. Many of the Asian students qualify on grades alone - it is the other intangible factors (i.e., no community volunteer work) which may count against them.

Again, in an ideal universe the black student would have the same quality primary education as an Asian student as that of a white student. The secondary education would also be comparable (all public schools and private schools would be equal). There would be no distinction between ivy league schools and city universities.

Application to higher education would be based strictly on merit and quantifiable means. This is not the world we live in - and some means to "level the playing field" have to be applied.