does a weekly cleaner get vacation pay?

brooklynchimp

LMAO-- not at the request/question, but at the obvious provocation and trolling this thread intended to procure.

eggcream

I recently hired someone to clean 2x a month, she charges less than your person, and I've never heard of giving a birthday bonus or vacation pay. I have no problem with a Christmas bonus but forget vacations or birthday's. How many breaks does she take in 6 hours? Mine takes a lunch break only. Re; the raise, how long has she been with you?

booklaw

This isn't quite the same thing you have all been discussing, but we pay our once-a-week housecleaner (whom we have used for many years) when we go on vacation. The house doesn't really need cleaning when we're away, but we figure it isn't fair to her to deprive her of her weekly income because we're treating ourselves to a vacation, so she comes in, does whatever cleaning she thinks is necessary, and she gets paid.

hunter.gatherer

monamie wrote:
I don't think I would have thought twice about it if it were someone working for me even half-time, say a dogwalker or a nanny or something like that, but I always thought of a once-weekly service as different from a full-time or daily work (like contracting), which is why it seemed weird to be asked for vacation/sick days when the job is only 1 day per week. Do the people who pay you vacation days get their dogs walked every day or a few days at least per week, or are they once-a-week people? Would it seem like a different situation to you if she only came once every 2 weeks, or once a month, to clean?

Excellent points all, monamie, and it disproves the poster above who said the thread was "obviously intended to procure trolling." I thought from the beginning that it was clearly a legitimate request for opinions, and I was (and am) frankly shocked at the level of vitriol people here are writing anonymously. I wonder if the discussion would be different if we weren't talking about a profession which largely employs Carribean women. And when people start using words like "entitled" and "taken advantage of" in this context it sets my irony alarm buzzing: because, obviously, when I think of "Park Slope" and "entitled," a housekeeper is the first image that comes to mind....oh wait no, it isn't. It's people double parking $35K SUVs on Carroll St in front of their kids' $35K private elementary school and telling me to "have some compassion" for them (true story).

But I digress. Let me address your questions. Your housekeeper probably has multiple clients whose homes she cleans once every week or two, and probably makes this request of all or most of them. Some give her vacation time, some don't in all likelihood, but it would seem reasonable to me to give her vacation proportinate to the days she works. Let her other clients pick up their end if they are willing to do so, but you don't have to be responsible for them. Another good way to do the same thing was mentioned by the person who said they pay their housekeeper when they (the client) goes on vacation. Some of my people do that too and it works out the same in the end.

As for the people who give me vacation/sick days; they range from several days a week to 5 days a week. But then, all of my clients are in that range, and if I had one day a week clients that's all the vacation time I would need from them.

hunter.gatherer

hitokiri wrote:
this is a simple solution. Like any freelancer or sole proprietor , you do either of these.

1) Take a vacation and you take the hit completely
2) get someone to cover for you for the same pay and half it with the person.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too when you are in such a type of work.

It's ludicrous to compare the kind of work that a housekeeper does with what most people think of by freelancer and sole proprietor. When you were a freelance computer tech, was that very draining physically? Did people question how many breaks you were taking, as multiple people are doing here? Did your clients crow about how "generous" they were to pay you a living wage? On that note, a lot of people have pointed out that many people pay their housekeepers less than the OP does. I'm sure that's true. Lots of people are willing to work for less, especially in this economy; and people who are fairly well off have the opportunity to take advantage of that. But not everyone in Park Slope is motivated solely by money, and some may find a nice relationship with their household employees to be worth more than the "extra" $50 or so a month that they spend.

Oh, and hitokiri? I don't think monamie's housekeeper is in any danger of going diabetic from "having her cake and eating it too." All she's asking for is the ability to take a vacation every now and then.

...Really, to hear some of these people say it, it's like every upper middle class woman is in imminent danger of having a Carribean woman push her out into the street and take her place.

nykittyny

Wow, Hunter Gatherer....do you really assume that all of us own $35K SUVs??? My yearly rent is less than that, and yes, I live in Park Slope. The OP pays her cleaning person (who I don't remember her ever claiming to be a Carribbean woman) a VERY reasonable hourly/weekly wage for a service. She also goes above and beyond to communicate to the cleaning person that she is respected and appreciated, by paying her bonuses. She is also seriously considering giving her cleaning person a RAISE.

I had days, weeks and months back in my freelancing days when I made a big fat ZERO at my job, due to lack of incoming work and the economy. Its the reality of anyone nowadays who is a waiter, freelancer, house cleaner, exterminator, nanny, dog walker, what-have-you. Your assumption that we are all so well-off, just cause of our zip code, is really off base. Don't you live here too?

hunter.gatherer

NYkitty, it doesn't seem like you read what I wrote with any basic understanding. I clearly didn't make any generalizations about people who live in Park Slope. I mentioned the double parked SUVs outside BCS while recounting a particular moment which evokes "entitlement" much more than a housekeeper asking for vacation time. But my comment is still up, it speaks for itself and you can reread it at your leisure.

And I'm not accusing the OP of classism, I think s/he is being quite honorable in considering the question, and thoughtful in asking for our viewpoints. But I'm definitely accusing others on this board of the same, those who used loaded words and phrases like entitled, crazy, nuts, insane, out of her mind (it's crazy to want to be able to take a vacation?), taking advantage, generous, and so on.

One person equated being a housekeeper with his or her experience as a freelance computer tech, as if she would have the same options as a computer tech. Two people questioned how many breaks she takes, and several offered ways the OP could get the same work done for less, when that had nothing to do with the original question. That's classism. And it really shows that these posters think of hiring household employees as akin to choosing a broadband provider. Whether these are people who use our services or not I don't know, but I find this mindset offensive, and I certainly wouldn't want to work for any of them.

hunter.gatherer

Oh, and I don't live in Park Slope, but....wait, are you ready....some of my best friends do.

karl the druid

NYkittyNY wrote: Its the reality of anyone nowadays who is a waiter, freelancer, house cleaner, exterminator, nanny, dog walker, what-have-you.

construction worker, architect, manufacturer, lawyer, real estate agent, banker, mortgage broker, managing editor, advertising director, web designer, programmer, postal worker...

please stop me

someone

please stop me

fancy

I don't think so. She probably can get other work while she's on vacation.
And, must have other clients as well. Is cleaning all she's doing 4 U. Sounds like she's more than your cleaning lady. Sounds like she can ask U anything and get away with it.
If you like, give her one day's pay for vacation, holiday & birthday (all together).
And, a $10.00 raise starting 2010.
Now, if she's more than a cleaning lady, marry her.
Good luck.
Fancy

ljnd

I am a consultant who's built my own business - and I have a cleaning lady.

In my business, I bill a certain amount of money, an hourly rate that is higher than what I'd make if I were a full-time employee. The reason it's higher is because that rate has to cover benefits like health insurance, office space, vacations, disability insurance - in other words, all the benefits I'd normally get as a full-time employee. Rather than relying on someone else to provide them to me, I charge what I charge so I can provide those benefits to myself. And my clients pay that fee because I work on a project basis - these companies do not hire me as a full-time employee, but factor in my expenses as part of getting something done.

My cleaning lady, in fact, does the same. If she had a full-time, secure job, her actual salary would be less than what she makes as a contractor. But she would have benefits like company-sponsored health insurance, vacation pay, disability insurance. As it is, she charges more than she would if I had her on staff cleaning for me every day.

It sounds like your cleaning person is not really thinking of her business as a business. And I can understand that - when I started my business, it was simply as a way of getting food on the table - but perhaps she needs to raise her rates a little bit all around, and then she can provide herself with the benefits she's looking to get, without relying on others to give them to her.

jimmy

@hunter.gatherer - Please stop trying to make this into something it isn't. You're the only one here mentioning race, "classism," talking about "loaded terms" and entitlement. The OP asked for advice, we've been giving it, trying to answer the question. Nobody called the house cleaner "insane" for wanting to take a vacation, we said her request for a paid vacation, on top of the very good wage she already makes, is nuts. Stop twisting words and reading into it things that just aren't there.

hunter.gatherer

Fancy wrote: Sounds like she can ask U anything and get away with it.
Fancy

Thanks, I'll add "get away with it" to the list of charged terms people are using here. Are we talking about a housekeeper, or a shoplifter?

And Jimmy, those loaded terms I quoted were all used, and all reflect classism, conscious or not. Smitty used the word entitled: "She is not entitled to vacation pay." I know that it was the request and not the person being called insane, but I vehemently disagree. I think domestic workers perform a valuable function and we earn the right to a good life and to be able to support families. It's not an entitlement and to suggest otherwise is offensive to me. As for race, I was simply wondering aloud if there would be the same reaction if we weren't talking about a profession that largely employs Carribean women. I still do wonder; I know I didn't get such a vitriolic response when I made this request of my dogwalking clients.

ljnd, on the other hand, has a very well thought out response. There are lots of ways that monamie's housekeeper can go about this and this is one. It may be psychologically easier for some of her clients to pay a slightly higher fee, or it may be easier for them to give her a paid vacation day (based on working one day a week for each of them) towards a vacation. But either way, it's a legitimate request, not a crazy one.

I'd love it if someone can try to explain why a housekeeper doesn't deserve to be able to take a vacation.

fancy

She / he works only once a week for one client. 6 hours a day, which leaves time for another client. Within those 6 hours, I'm almost sure she's doing the following: TV watching, eating ( clients food) extending the cleaning time.
Oh, maybe talking on the phone? All on your expense.
Our cleaning lady (office cleaning person) cleans 6 spaces in 4 hours and talks for about 1 hours, while talking, she stops working. We pay her $90.00. She has 2 clients per day, depending on the job.
Vacation is, non-work w/pay? In that case we all should get docked for the
non-work we do, everyday at work. Balance is balance. Work, Work Work or
As we all do, Work much, work little, break, extended break. Work, break,
go home. Fancy's reply to above comment. Maybe we should ask for a vacation before starting a job, just to see if the employer really wants to hire us. Instead of us working our a---- off to prove ourselves worthy.

ceceilia0502

A housekeeper does deserve to take a vacation - but a part-time employer does not have to pay for it.

Ljnd has good points - and at $25/hr, the cleaning person is getting a fair wage for the work (my guy gets $20/hr) and is making more money than people who make less per hour but have benefits.

Perhaps if the person was working closer to half-time there would be more incentive/obligation to contribute to time-off pay, but I would not expect any employer to contribute to MY benefits if I were working for them only one day a week.

hunter.gatherer

Oh, you're (almost) sure, are you Fancy? That's cute. I've done office cleaning, and it's much easier than the work I see residential housekeepers doing.

As for this comment: "As we all do, Work much, work little, break, extended break. Work, break, go home." If I understand that properly through your atrocious grammar you're saying everyone is a slacker to one degree or another. Well, speak for yourself; I spend between 5 and 9 hours a day in solid motion with no breaks and the housekeepers I know (and nannies, home health aides, etc) have similarly strong work ethics.

It's a given that monamie's housekeeper has other clients too. No one here is suggesting monamie should foot the bill for an entire vacation.

hunter.gatherer

That last line should also be addressed to Flexixchick. No one I know has their house cleaned more than once a week, so saying that a once a week employer has no obligation to offer benefits is the same as saying housekeepers don't deserve benefits. Instead, the benefits (sick days, vacation time, etc) should accrue at a once a week rate (i.e. ideally each client would pay the housekeeper for one day's work during her vacation week). I'm surprised this needs any explanation.

jenhurley

hunter.gatherer - we all hear you loud and clear, most of us just don't agree with you. I'm not going to waste any more energy on this as clearly you have your mind made up. Enjoy yourself and fight the power!

hunter.gatherer

Oh you "hear me loud and clear." And you think housekeepers should be able to take a vacation but employers should only help cover it if they are "working closer to half time."

I've got news for you. Most housekeepers work more than full time; it's just spread out over different employers. Is it really so unreasonable to ask each of them to chip in a small amount for benefits?

eggcream

"As for race, I was simply wondering aloud if there would be the same reaction if we weren't talking about a profession that largely employs Carribean women. "

uh no, you were playing the race card which is what people do when they can't make a reasoned argument. Mine, nor any of my friends, have cleaning women from the Carribean. Show me where it says this profession largely employs Carribean women.

hunter.gatherer

We can go on like this actually: you're playing the you're playing the race card card. I know a lot of housekeepers; they're all women from the Caribbean. But that was just a minor point I made among many, many others. Why don't you respond to some of them?

Also I really can't make out the meaning behind, "Mine, nor any of my friends, have cleaning women from the Carribean."

But let me make another observation here. All we really know about these two people (monamie and her housekeeper) is that one of them hired the other to clean her house. And several people have accused the woman hired to clean the house of laziness. That's a bit ironic, don't you think?

(for the record, I doubt that either of them is lazy)

MOD

Well congrats

monamie has basically been scared off and everyone is just reiterating the same argument for the whole second page of this post.

Let's take a break for Halloween? go out, grab a beer, eat candy, let it rest?

idlewild

Knowing NYC politics, something similar to the Domestic Worker's Rights Bill would be passed. I'm not sure how it would work out. My guess is a good chunk of the homeowners will not want to be bothered with all the paperwork and just not hire. In between being harassed by the Feds for hiring illegals and now by the City for abusing what would be a union stranglehold....a lot of people who had cash in pocket will find their pockets full of lint, and their bodies out of work.

peanuts

First of all, you are very generous....the birthday bonus is a nice extra.

Just curious....is she on the books? Do you fill out a 1099 for her? If you do, maybe you can consider vacation pay - if not, no.

The other issue is yes - I do think part-time employees should get vacation pay - they do at my job BUT they have to work at least 20 hours a week to qualify - it doesn't seem that she does.

Someone posted that they do pay their cleaning person when they are on vacation - I also think that is very generous but is the right thing to do since they are losing out on income.