How/Why we communicate on this board?

vgee

Hi, I have been a long-time lurker of this site for many years, going back to the days when the site was DailyHeights and mostly covered Prospect Heights. I finally broke down and registered with the site, because of my own curiosity about why we use this site.

First, full disclosure: I am a professor of communications researching urban communication particularly in Crown Heights. I am particularly interested in trying to better understand why some we decide to communicate on this site. Is it because you recently moved here from elsewhere and this site helps you connect with those that are in similar situations (those who also moved into Crown Heights from other locations)? If so, where are you all from originally? Or, are you a long-time resident and this site helps you stay-in-touch with happenings in the area (openings and closings of businesses, crime, or community gatherings)? And I wonder how many are long-time lurkers, like myself (that I guess, we’ll never know).

So, of course now, you might ask why am I focused on Crown Heights? Well, for many reasons, Crown Heights has a uniquely diverse community with an established Hasidic community and West Indian community and many long-time residents. It has also gone through a recent gentrification, so it is simply an ideal neighborhood examine in terms of urban communication within such a diverse ( religion, ethnicity, race, social class, and age) community.

If you still reading this long post, maybe you are interested too. Thoughts?

MOD

Edit: Let us know how this research pans out and if any responses get used. welcome

vgee

I thought I was being transparent in what I hoped to learn from asking those questions. To use this site as Fodder, No that is not the case. I was hoping for some valuable qualitative research for the communication studies discipline and urban communication.

As for transparency.
I am doing research specifically on urban communication, where I will go with my research, I don't know, as I am only researching the topic. Perhaps end result will be presenting my research on a panel at an academic conference or my research take me further, perhaps being published in a communication journal, I am not sure, as it depends on where my research takes me, and I am just asking questions, initially reaching out for some quality feedback.
To go deeper, I am interested in how we use technology to communicate in urban setting and why. Of course, I have assumptions, but they may be wrong. Some assumptions being that its possibly younger professionals using this site, younger generations that feel comfortable using social media and long-time older residents maybe not so much. So, what does that mean for the community, if anything at all? But, that is why I ask, maybe I am wrong? And the only way to truly understand how this board is used, is to ask those that are using it. So, if you can help a neighbor work on some research, by providing some feedback, I appreciate it.
Thank you

whynot_31

It won't be the first time I've been studied.

brooklynboyyee

Subject: troll

i straight up troll on this site. love arguing. what can i say?

MOD

whynot_31 wrote: It won't be the first time I've been studied.

domino

Urban communication has taken various forms but I think age specifics would also impact your research - as well as certain other demographics. For example, I would assume that there are very few Hasidim that participate on these sites as well as very few long-term (read elderly) residents. Doubtful that the very young (younger than 20) are participating as well. With th recent upsurge in Twitter I would assume this further depletes the population.

Although this is a area specific site - for those interested in their neighborhood, many residents prefer the old-fashioned methods of neighborhood feedback - - from neighbor to neighbor. Granted, we have as a society become much more isolated from each other (I never had to make a play date growing up in Sunset Park/Bay Ridge - I just walked outside) and this is a means of keeping in touch, you would be missing an entire segment of the population by just focusing on the electronic means of communication. My mom is one of the BEST sources (to this day) of neighborhood events and she wouldn't know a computer if one fell on her. She can even tell you where the staff from Gino's restaurant is from (right down to the town) to who is moving out of the co-op three blocks away. Of course her new favorite game is Guess who died this week but that is a different topic.

I would agree with some of your assumptions that a certain demographic uses this site more than another - but long-time older residents have been using the face-to-face grapevine for years. And to the extent that some cronies are still in the area, STILL do.

The community in Crown Heights may become similar to the community in Borough Park (also heavily Hasidic but also Latino, Chinese and old time Italians).

Good luck with the research - I myself use the site to keep abreast of events and issues that my neighbors find important and perhaps an opportunity to provide MHO on certain topics.

hunter.gatherer

I communicate when I feel I have something to add to a conversation which has not been added. Of course, other perspectives are greeted with hostility sometimes, but I can deal with that.

vgee

Thanks Domino. I appreciate your feedback.

I agree with your points, as that is exactly what I do wonder and would love to better understand. I agree in thinking that long-time residents (older generations) are using face-to-face communication, while younger demographics may be newer residents that are using this site. So, then how can we do bridge that communication divide to help create community? For example, this site is a great resource for any resident in the community, but who is using it? And does only communicating online with neighbors segregate young, and maybe new, residents from older, long-time residents?
What really got me thinking was Senator Adams response on this site a couple weeks back about a meeting to discuss recent crime in the neighborhood. He knew to address this site and posted on it, but what he was calling for was old-fashioned face-to-face communication, trying to bring together the community.

Anyway, again, I very much appreciate your time and thought...thank you.

jeffrey

Domino and vgee, you might want to visit the following very active board on this site before reaching those conclusions:

the "Brooklyn Back When" board here on Brooklynian:
http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=175

Granted, it's a limited set of people in the scheme of things.

But they definitely use it with great velocity, as a part of their everyday routine (kind of like one big communal facebook wall).

hunter.gatherer

Yeah, it does seem a bit simplistic to think that anyone uses only one means of communication within a neighborhood. Personally, I'm young(ish), wasn't raised in Brooklyn, but have been here 8 years. And the vast majority of what I learn and what I put out there happens in public. But I use the internet too.

emily

As someone who spent all day today doing required IRB tutorials about, among other subtopics, the ethics of doing research on the Internet, I'd like to know a lot more about what you're researching and what you're going to do with it. Definitely a topic worth studying, though.

vgee

Jeffrey, thanks for the link, very interesting. I forgot about that board.

Emily, sorry but what does, IRB stand for? I am not sure if you read all the posts, but I elaborated in one of my previous posts where i may take this research down the road. If you have more questions, just let me know.

I suppose speaking of ethics in internet research, I could have done an ethnographic research and immersed myself as a contributor of this site, but instead I opted to try to be as transparent as possible and simply hoped to receive some preliminary qualitative feedback from online users in Crown Heights. I would be happy to share my research report on this study with anyone that wishes to provide feedback to my original post.

whynot_31

in general, this board allows me to talk with folks that I probably would not otherwise meet in "real life".

It is not the cloak of being anonymous that is attractive (my opinions aren't wild enough to upset anyone in person OR online), its the ability to meet people in different professions and locations.

There are few places where one can meet people based on a neighborhood. Usually, one meets people based on profession, or hobby, etc. I end up knowing many of the regular posters b/c there are occasionally happy hours in which we reveal ourselves, and then nod to them on the street.

snowboardqueen

I am a transplant to Crown Heights and this site helps me keep aware of the neighborhood and surrounding communities.

All my friends/associates in CH are not from New York so we are all in the same boat of exploring the community.

Also, CH does not have much coverage. Is there a neighborhood paper?

moominpapa

Crown Heights isn't really diverse, is it? You've got your large number of Hasidim, a large number of Blacks, a few small enclaves of Latino families, and a smattering of white folks attempting to gentrify with varying levels of success.

I suppose it depends on your definition of diversity. I always thought that diversity in New York would be a reflection of the actual demographics of, say, New York City. By that definition out of every 10 folks you saw, 4 would be white, 2 would be black, 1 would be Asian, 2 would be Latino, and 1 would be "other" (says wikipedia re: New York racial demographics - I fudged a little on the decimals for illustrative purposes).

The first year I lived in CH, I hardly ever saw anybody that looked like me (I'm white), a few latinos, no asians at all. What I did see was a lot of black folks (and boy did they not like me being around), and a high level of poverty. Crown Heights is only "diverse" in the sense that it's mostly black, which isn't really diverse at all.

brooklynboyyee

Subject: ???

have you ever considered why some people look at you when you walk by? maybe its more about the way that you carry yourself instead of you just being white.

I too live in Crown Heights. I too am white. And I have NO IDEA of what you're talking about. You're inciting that any black men and women in the neighborhood look at you the "wrong way" because you're white? You have got to be kidding.

I also take serious offense with your comment noting that whites living in CH are attempting to gentrify it. How? What am I doing that is gentrifying the neighborhood? I'm living in it. That's it. I'm not raising property taxes, opening any kind of business, or attempting to change the environment of the neighborhood. Gentrification doesn't happen when a white person moves into a predominantly black neighborhood. Use wikipedia a little more to fill the ridiculous gaps in your sense of logic.

catwalkertexasranger

Funny to look for facts here to weave together some social fabric of Crown Heights. Goose liver,organic coffee and helicopters are not black topics. Belgian beer had few drinkers before skinny jeans and girls showed up. Has it made it a better palce? The low standards that most NYC renters have become so dulled to make CH a great bang for your buck, close to transit and shopping. Lots of apts that were constructed when sq footage was still important. As the we search for a simpler life yes safe streets or good dining would be great but we will wait while they are established. Whites and blacks mix at few spots other than the grocery store and a minority of the bars open in the neighborhood. The observant Jewish population does neither, and shops,educates,drinks and prays alone. They do use race for fun a few times a year by asking if you are Jewish looking for support or converts most often holding a tree branch. The one thing we all do have in common is violence. No matter who you are you don't like it and want it to go away. Social science researchers beware most of what goes on in CH is elementary . Boring by NY history standards.

domino

Jeffrey, I did visit the "Brooklyn Back When" board when (and still am) looking for a John Jay HS yearbook. The majority of the people on that board seem to be FORMER Brooklynites reminiscing about the Park Slope of their youth. Almost like an alumni association. They seem to be a family based on neighborhood affiliations and memories and it is great that they are able to bond on this site, but I think vgee is trying to determine what the current Brooklyn residents say about their current Brooklyn neighborhood.

As for vgee, I am not sure you are going to be able to bridge that gap between internet communication common to the young and face-to-face communication common with the seniors.

In the days prior to sites such as this, our neighborhoods would have community meetings at the local library or school, Knights of Columbus or community board room (depending on the issues and anticipated crowds).

It was not uncommon for the women to have coffee together after setting the kids off to school and before the daily shopping expeditions. I distinctly remember my mom hanging clothes on the line and coming in with more gossip than clothspins.

Another factor was that immigrant families (immigrants, first and second generations) were not as mobile or independent - it was rare for families to leave the neighborhood; often, mutli-generations of some families lived on the same block if not the same building. The children usually married someone from the same block or neighborhood and settled within that neighborhood. Whether this was die to familial pressures, lack of education, lack of opportunity or whatever - it was a different dynamic.

capt. planet

SnowboardQueen wrote:

Also, CH does not have much coverage. Is there a neighborhood paper?

No, CH does not have a n'hood paper. I've attempted to fill the void with my own "Crown Heights Real Estate and Community News" 8 page newspaper that I send out every 3 - 6 months to about 1,800 home owners in the area.

The closest we have is the Carib News, which, as you can imagine, will tell you more about what's happning in Kingston Jamaica and on Kingston Avenue.

There's also Our Time Press which focuses mostly on Bed-Stuy and has a decidedly political slant. Not a lot of news, mostly columns and editorials.

I'd would really support a local newsletter than actually did good investigative reporting along with informative articles about events in the n'hood without the hard political stance found in OTP.

cool the kid

moominpapa wrote: Crown Heights isn't really diverse, is it? You've got your large number of Hasidim, a large number of Blacks, a few small enclaves of Latino families, and a smattering of white folks attempting to gentrify with varying levels of success.

I suppose it depends on your definition of diversity. I always thought that diversity in New York would be a reflection of the actual demographics of, say, New York City. By that definition out of every 10 folks you saw, 4 would be white, 2 would be black, 1 would be Asian, 2 would be Latino, and 1 would be "other" (says wikipedia re: New York racial demographics - I fudged a little on the decimals for illustrative purposes).

The first year I lived in CH, I hardly ever saw anybody that looked like me (I'm white), a few latinos, no asians at all. What I did see was a lot of black folks (and boy did they not like me being around), and a high level of poverty. Crown Heights is only "diverse" in the sense that it's mostly black, which isn't really diverse at all.

Even with the diversity of NYC, beyond interactions in the workplace you won't see much mixing amongst various socioeconomic levels. For example, yes, you have Chinatown, Chelsea, and Washington Heights all on a very small island... but the Dominicans don't hang out with the Chinese in Manhattan any more than anywhere else. Extreme proximity doesn't make for automatic mixing + peace + harmony.

As far as your initial impressions of CH, yes, it is generally an economically depressed area comprised mainly of blacks, Latinos and relatively isolated Hasidic Jews. So no you don't necessarily fit in. But while I don't necessarily look to blame you for your poor time in CH a lot of it is what you make of it. I am black, my gf is white. She just can't shake her fears of the kids on our block. But I understand + somewhat know + try to interact with them. They're kids! If you fear + distance yourself from people naturally they will respond to that. I don't think the majority of the people in CH are as bad as people think after having lived here for a year now; they are just different from what you're used to. It's the few bad apples that sour the experience for everybody; and to use them to make an indictment of all the people in the neighborhood isn't right.

Mind you, I have had my car broken into & 2 bikes stolen... though I retrieved one... no problems since, knock on wood, and the offender has from what I know been placed in the custody of the NY correctional system. He was a crackhead and really just soured my mood... since he's been gone I have definitely come to like CH a lot more.

----------------------------

As far as forms of communication in CH, I think if members of this board were to take part in community board meetings (myself included, I have never been to one) it would benefit everybody and hopefully create some good connections. However, a lot of the problem people in the neighborhood don't really take part in such activities so I don't know how much that would help on that end. There would still be a divide there, where there probably needs to be a connection more than between any non-offending groups here.

vgee

Thanks everyone for your feedback, I do appreciate it, it is helpful to me.

I do plan on doing some good old-fashioned research too, going out in the neighborhood and talking to residents young and old to help with this research. I hope to find some commonalities between those that communicate on this board and those that communicate with good old face-to-face in the neighborhood and maybe use crime as a communication facilitator. Everyone on this board always seems to be aware and concerned of crime and violence, but like Cool The Kid said I wonder how many actually take part in community activism, to seek change. And at the same time, I wonder how we could get those that don't use the site, but have the resources, to go online to use the site to organize meetings and community concerns. But then again, there may be the issue that some may wish not to get involved in the community, because living in CH is just temporary for them, which is understandable.
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts.

spark

I joined when me and my bfriend were deciding whether or not we should move or renew our lease--I wanted to find an alternative to craigslist for apartment listings, and was curious about what people were paying for rent. I'd been living in CH for almost a year at that point (moved from Greenpoint), but I'd just started working from home and spending more time around home as a result, so I was looking to find out more about neighborhood happenings too. Other stats, for whatever they're worth: I'm Korean American, the bfriend is white, and we're both in our 30s. Neither of us consider CH racially or socio-economically diverse, but it's rare that we feel out of place here.

One set of neighbors has lived here for almost two decades and they know everyone on the block, so I get a lot of ultra-local news (gossip about people I mainly know by sight) from them. I doubt they're on here, and if we didn't have adjacent porches/balconies it probably would have taken a lot longer to get to know them as well...but that's true in any part of the city I think.

As it stands, we're pretty lucky as far as immediate neighbors are concerned--people are friendly and acknowledge that they recognize each other, bother to smile and say hi, all that. One older, retired man who lives across the street sits outside all day in nice weather, and he's always doing things like signing for people's ups packages if they're not home. Another neighbor whom we had never spoken to before offered to let us crash at her place when we came home at 4 am to a broken lock and dead-asleep landlord! That never would have happened if she'd just recognized our screen names rather than our faces.

I guess what I'm getting at is that my sense of the CH community is an in-the-flesh one, and I think that that reflects the community more so than how many members connect on this board or elsewhere online. Given that local places like barber shops and pharmacies still offer fax and internet services, you'd be narrowing your research on "urban communication" quite a bit by focusing just on locals who are online.

brooklynleather

I started reading this website when I lived in Prospect Heights in 2006. Since then I've also lived in Bed-Stuy and most recently Crown Heights. Initially in Prospect Heights I used it to find out about amenities and what have you in the neighborhood.

I've used it over time to get a feel for a neighborhood or block where I've considered living. I mostly use it to learn about amenities still (new coffee shop? best fried chicken? good dry cleaner? etc).

I also use it to keep up to date with microneighborhood affairs from yes, gunshots + muggings and break-ins to block parties, parades, and who has a lovely garden.

snowboardqueen

Subject: Vgee - Most Import Reason I Read This Blog About CH

Ah,

Vgee I forgot the most important reason I started to read this blog.

I have never lived in a neighborhood that did not have an abundance of amenities on my block or within immediate walking distance and were well advertised and talked about in my circle of friends, neighbors and assocociates living in that community

I first lived in the East Village, then Park Slope, brief time in Hoboken, then back to Park Slope before moving to Crown Heights a year ago.

I work in film, have crazy hours, fly across the country a lot .., so I do not have the time to leisurely explore the community. Then, ALL of my friends in the community are in the exact same boat as myself. They are not from Crown Heights or New York and are really busy . So we do not have a network of people to learn about the community from their explorations.

This blog is a very quick way to learn about parts of the community. What new restaurant has opened, exhibition space, activities in the community and a bit of news etc.

So, that in a nutshell are the main reasons why I started to read this blog. in the E. Village, Park Slope and Hoboken I never felt the need to read blogs about those neighborhoods. The information I needed was readily available elsewhere.

Hopefully blogs about Crown Heights will evolve into more than old timers vs newcomers and truly delve into deeper communication to lead to deeper understanding of the various issues.

Organic Coffee etc is not a black topic.. so ridiculous. Organic is a topic period. I am a black woman raised a vegetarian on organic food my entire life and I never felt like One in A Million.

Black people and white people don''t mix, except the grocery store? In this neighborhood? In your personal experience? What MP is trying to say is not clear at all.

Helicopters seems the most ridiculous of all. Except the occasion when I've flown from one location to the next in a helicopter, courtesy of the client, I've know helicopter transportation to be a means of transportation for the rich.., not the middle or upper middle class. Or a neighborhood that unfortunately had way to much violence and the police used them.

Crown Heights is what it is.., a changing community. Just because I recently moved in I don't feel my artistic, middle class, alternative, semi vegetarian, non drinking athletic background/lifestyle entitles me to dismiss on all levels the people's culture that are already here, just because it may be different than mine.

I would hope we can co exist and grow.

hunter.gatherer

SnowboardQueen: OT, but here is an absolutely fantastic blog about the east village, which locals there use to keep up to date on happenings they might not know about otherwise:

http://neithermorenorless.blogspot.com/

Bob Arihood should win some awards.

moominpapa

@Brooklyn Boyee - how do I carry myself? Please don't act like you know.

For almost a year after I moved into the former crack house I lived in CH (how do I know? The section 8 old-timers that hadn't been evicted told me, "This place used to be a crack house! Oh, yeah! Just like 3 months ago those bad people got kicked out....") not a week would go by where I wasn't called "cracker" by the guys on the corner The fellows in the bodega would give me the stink-eye. Then there's getting mugged a few months after moving to Crown Heights after living in New York for 13 years without a problem. Then, on a lighter note, there's the poster of Barney Fife that somebody taped to my door (which is actually kind of hilarious. "Don Knotts? Really?" Apparently somebody thought I was a narc because I asked them to stop leaving the remains of their blunts on the interior steps of the building).

I made friends with the old-timers in my building, I helped the families that were my neighbors with their groceries. I learned peoples names, played with the inevitable pit bulls and tried to engage their owners in conversation, but I never really felt welcome. I believe that some places welcome us and other places say, "No." Maybe Crown Heights just said "no" to me.

And as far as your resentment goes, I don't really care. You can say you're not a part of gentrification, and I'm not gonna argue with you - I mean, truthfully, I don't know you. You might be poor (like me). But regardless of your actual role, to many people your white face is the face of gentrification, and though I may have been mistaken in saying that people were "trying" to gentrify, believe me, gentrification is coming to Crown Heights for good or ill. There will be positive things (new restaurants, shopping, new places to hang out) and negative (long term residents getting kicked out, old hangouts changing), and since many people think "white=rich, spoiled, soft" that's how some people get treated. Glad to hear your experience is different, but I couldn't leave quickly enough.