Noisy Idling Buses

brklnholiday

I moved to my neighborhood on Lincoln Rd. over three years ago.
At that particular time Lincoln Rd. was closed between Ocean and Flatbush and remained so for three months until they finished work that they were doing on the train bridge.

When they finally opened the street to traffic, I found that my building is directly across the street from MTA's Bus depot.
Unfortunately, my apartment faces the street and I have found that the buses idle continually despite a sign which states that idling carries a fine of $2000(The sign is conveniently turned the wrong way so MTA bus drivers never see it).

These buses idle day and night and are quite loud. This has caused much stress and loss of sleep for my girlfriend and I. Despite my efforts to follow the chain of command which is to call in the bus info to 311 when it occurs this issue persists(I did get a letter from NY State congratulating me on my civil diligence and to keep up the good work).
I have left my apartment and asked bus drivers to shut their engines.
I have spoken face to face to police officers who were standing next to the idling buses and the sign about this issue without them blinking an eye.
It is a quality of life issue which seems to be another example of the city slowly bringing the quality of life down.

We are going to be circulating a petition to our neighbors in the next few days asking the city to enforce their idling laws and to move the MTA bus stops currently on Lincoln Rd.(between Ocean Ave. and Flatbush) around the corner to Ocean Ave. where Prospect Park can more easily disperse the loud echoing bus noise.

I am interested in any feedback from my neighbors on this site. I look forward to hearing your ideas on this topic.
regards,

BrklnHoliday

modsquad

Are your Landlords involved with this? If not, I think it would be worth holding their feet to the fire a little. Under the warranty of habitability statutes a good landlord/Tenant lawyer might be able to sue for a rent reduction being that the LL knew of the existing condition or possibly sue for installation of sound proof windows. I guess I would ask nicely at first if they would help you approach elected officials. It certainly helps to have land owners sign on as opposed to renters, they being a mostly transient population.
What about fumes? If you were to place CO detectors next to the windows would they go off? If you open the windows and fan the CO detectors with outside air would they go off? If they do, you have no recourse but to call the FDNY via 911 of course. The fire department would grow very tired of responding to this problem and no doubt make the buses move.

tsarina

yOU gotta be kidding me! I lived in the Patio Gardens for 7 yrs. and know this block and all the attendant noise from the trains, buses, dollar vans with their air horns and car stereos and jerks with speakers pointed out their windows. Even with the construction on the overpass it was loud. When you move onto a commercial street ,and next to Flatbush Avenue, and across from a subway station and bus stop you gotta expect some noise.
Although I have sympathy for you and your plight, it seems ridiculous to be complaining about this. Its on a par with people moving next door to an airport and then complaining about the noise. !
This is the city, you live on a commercial street next to a super busy street in a traditionally loud neighborhood. Perhaps you should consider moving to a residential block. This would seem like the best solution for you.

catwalkertexasranger

Dear holiday,Do not for any reason attempt use fans,CO2 detectors and the 911 system to prove your apt is noisy. CO2 in high concentrations is deadly. When you call 911 to solve a noise issue it is criminal. Remember that cars,people,dogs,cats and other fire trucks are involved in accidents while responding to emergency calls. Your smile and explanation to the fire fighters that you are trying to create a paper trail will probably get you in big trouble. 311 is the number you want to call or your mom

modsquad

catwalkertexasranger wrote: Dear holiday,Do not for any reason attempt use fans,CO2 detectors and the 911 system to prove your apt is noisy. CO2 in high concentrations is deadly. When you call 911 to solve a noise issue it is criminal. Remember that cars,people,dogs,cats and other fire trucks are involved in accidents while responding to emergency calls. Your smile and explanation to the fire fighters that you are trying to create a paper trail will probably get you in big trouble. 311 is the number you want to call or your mom

It's a CO detector not a CO2 detector.
Until you meet a threshold nobody cares about your problem. If there is a hint of something more dangerous then just noise then use it to your advantage.
The local FDNY will only respond to a 911 for a CO complaint. Such are the politics of emergency services.
I'm not sure why you would find it necessary to incriminate yourself? Facts are facts.

catwalkertexasranger

CO (Carbon monoxide) and CO2 (Carbon dioxide) should not be used for noise. Both have very harmful outcomes to humans. Using a fan to "draw in" CO/CO2 into ones house or apt is suicide. Sound/noise are measured in decibels(db) and there are ranges that the city excepts. Most often you are able to complain about db's(of all kinds) Airborne gases often harm or kill people. 911 is not used for complaints,Emergencies yes.*small animals (pets) are very sensitive to toxic gases and small amounts can kill them, physically these gases are heavier than air so be careful what is effected by any non controllable experiments.

carnivore

catwalkertexasranger wrote: CO (Carbon monoxide) and CO2 (Carbon dioxide) should not be used for noise. Both have very harmful outcomes to humans. Using a fan to "draw in" CO/CO2 into ones house or apt is suicide. Sound/noise are measured in decibels(db) and there are ranges that the city excepts. Most often you are able to complain about db's(of all kinds) Airborne gases often harm or kill people. 911 is not used for complaints,Emergencies yes.*small animals (pets) are very sensitive to toxic gases and small amounts can kill them, physically these gases are heavier than air so be careful what is effected by any non controllable experiments.

If the amount of CO put out by the buses poses a threat to the OP simply by opening the window and putting a fan in it, then that is an entirely legitimate complaint and a reasonable use of the system, whatever the motivation. If the OP can show that the current situation poses a health risk in addition to a noisy inconvenience, that is all the more reason to use every resource available.

catwalkertexasranger

Since chemistry or logic won't work, buy a canary from the pet store. This technique has been used for many years and also will detect methane (from rotting garbage or plants). CO and CO2 are both poison and if you are exposed to high levels the first thing you do is pass out, so if your lucky winds are blowin' and you wake up, by all means call 911. Many large noisy buses in NYC are powered by natural gas and are still just as noisy as old school diesel but with 1/6 th the pollutants. I don't want you to be sick or die or unhappy but playing around with poison gas is very dangerous. I am responding to the advice of using fans or open windows to create a possibly lethal outcome. Please stop listening to me or anybody on the posts. Buy a cup of coffee,walk down to the fire house and tell them of your problem and your"plan" to correct it. Make sure you tell them that only one person told you CO/CO2 are deadly and not to call 911 over this situation. The NFPA website has loads of info if you don't walk or drink coffee or dislike firemen

modsquad

catwalkertexasranger wrote: so if your lucky winds are blowin' and you wake up, by all means call 911.

What if you're not lucky enough to wake up?

carnivore

catwalkertexasranger wrote: Since chemistry or logic won't work, buy a canary from the pet store. This technique has been used for many years and also will detect methane (from rotting garbage or plants). CO and CO2 are both poison and if you are exposed to high levels the first thing you do is pass out, so if your lucky winds are blowin' and you wake up, by all means call 911. Many large noisy buses in NYC are powered by natural gas and are still just as noisy as old school diesel but with 1/6 th the pollutants. I don't want you to be sick or die or unhappy but playing around with poison gas is very dangerous. I am responding to the advice of using fans or open windows to create a possibly lethal outcome. Please stop listening to me or anybody on the posts. Buy a cup of coffee,walk down to the fire house and tell them of your problem and your"plan" to correct it. Make sure you tell them that only one person told you CO/CO2 are deadly and not to call 911 over this situation. The NFPA website has loads of info if you don't walk or drink coffee or dislike firemen

All apartments in New York are required by law to have CO detectors, which are much more sensitive than a canary. The alarm will sound long before any potential danger, and the OP can call 911 and have the situation addressed. The OP has a right to open his/her window and turn on a fan. If buses idling outside create a situation where this would potentially be harmful, s/he has every right to take action.

stacey

If I am not mistaken there is a 3 minute idling law in NYC which is policed by the DEP. Might help to give them a call.

I also remember hearing/reading that there was a bill now to completely stop idling outside of schools. If you are close to a school maybe you should also team up with them. Good luck.

catwalkertexasranger

modsquad wrote: Are your Landlords involved with this? If not, I think it would be worth holding their feet to the fire a little. Under the warranty of habitability statutes a good landlord/Tenant lawyer might be able to sue for a rent reduction being that the LL knew of the existing condition or possibly sue for installation of sound proof windows. I guess I would ask nicely at first if they would help you approach elected officials. It certainly helps to have land owners sign on as opposed to renters, they being a mostly transient population.
What about fumes? If you were to place CO detectors next to the windows would they go off? If you open the windows and fan the CO detectors with outside air would they go off? If they do, you have no recourse but to call the FDNY via 911 of course. The fire department would grow very tired of responding to this problem and no doubt make the buses move.

NFPA is an organization that formulates policy and procedure for this type of safety issue. CO and CO2 both kill you at different rates, one fast one slow. I responded to and have included the post that I found disturbing. Is colorless and odorless you don't know it's there. Detectors are a cheap and safe way to ensure you are not harmed or killed by these gases. Putting a fan or placing a detector in an area of concentrated gas is also dangerous. The fire department will come and investigate you gas alarm**they will test to see if the gas is present or to look for a cause** if none is found they will suggest placing more alarms and to contact your landlord and the DEP,DOB to ensure you are safe. The idea of using a possible poison gas scare to correct a noisy bus situation, I find fantastic and hope a TV show is developed along these lines,kind of a Kramer/House/McGiver mash up. If you have any concern about strange fumes in your place call 311 and have them checked out. I am really interested in the official response to "I live near the bus station and train bridge and I want peace and quiet" keep posting please.

stacey

catwalkertexasranger wrote: [If you have any concern about strange fumes in your place call 311 and have them checked out. I am really interested in the official response to "I live near the bus station and train bridge and I want peace and quiet" keep posting please.

Do you mean in this type of situation or rule of thumb? If rule of thumb - this goes against everything I have been told by the Fire Dept. When we had a smoke scare at our home the firemen told me - to call 911 IMMEDIATELY if we smell or think there could be a possible fire, gas leak or any noxious fumes especially if a smoke/carbon monoxide detector goes off.
I also remember them saying the same thing every year that they visited our schools for safety week.

The other two things they mentioned to me once was - make sure you have detector and that batteries are changed 2x a year as well as if there are small infants in the home a small sign should be attached to the fire escape window stating that there is an infant in the home.

catwalkertexasranger

stacey wrote: [quote=catwalkertexasranger][If you have any concern about strange fumes in your place call 311 and have them checked out. I am really interested in the official response to "I live near the bus station and train bridge and I want peace and quiet" keep posting please.

Do you mean in this type of situation or rule of thumb? If rule of thumb - this goes against everything I have been told by the Fire Dept. When we had a smoke scare at our home the firemen told me - to call 911 IMMEDIATELY if we smell or think there could be a possible fire, gas leak or any noxious fumes especially if a smoke/carbon monoxide detector goes off.
I also remember them saying the same thing every year that they visited our schools for safety week.

The other two things they mentioned to me once was - make sure you have detector and that batteries are changed 2x a year as well as if there are small infants in the home a small sign should be attached to the fire escape window stating that there is an infant in the home.

Yes. If you smell anything you should call. If you see or smell smoke you should call. You should test your detectors as per NFPA standards, You should replace photoelectric type smoke detectors every 6 years even if they look in good condition. You should ensure that your window screens are able to be removed in case of emergency. Also your fire escape should be clear and in good repair if not call the bldg manager. You should have at least 1 general purpose fire ext in your apt. CO and CO2 alarms can go off at anytime even if bldg heating equipment is not is service. Again we are talking life safety . The post was about noisy buses,yes the two may be one in the same, but again calling 911/or the FD about a noisy bus is a bad idea. Harmful fumes from a bus is different than noise from a bus. All instructions say the same thing..go to fresh air first before you do anything else,get away from the fumes/smell

jeffrey

stacey wrote: If I am not mistaken there is a 3 minute idling law in NYC which is policed by the DEP. Might help to give them a call.

I also remember hearing/reading that there was a bill now to completely stop idling outside of schools. If you are close to a school maybe you should also team up with them. Good luck.

Dunno if a private school counts but it just so happens that the Maple Street School (nursery school) is located *right* there smack dab in the center of all this, located directly adjacent to the door into the subway station.

As one might expect in front of an MTA transit hub, the curbside station for the buses is along the sidewalk right out in front of the MTA station (and school, in this case) , except for the fact that the buses are not supposed to be sitting there during idle periods with their engines on.

Perhaps you might contact the school along the lines that stacey mentioned above to see if they have any efforts afoot which might benefit from the support of immediate neighbors also affected such as yourselves.

Their web site:
http://www.maplestreetschool.org/