ASSAULTED on Prospect PL.

livetotravel

alafairnadia wrote: let's discuss how gentrification and colonialism are basically the same thing.

You mean the aren't? Isn't it just a difference of timing?

I promised my cardiologist I wouldn't get into another PS/PH gentrification virtual shouting match - but kids go over to the PS Forum and read (and this will be punishment for some of you and you know who you are) ...

"yuppies & hipsters thanks alot!"
http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2864

alafairnadia

Livetotravel wrote: [quote=alafairnadia]let's discuss how gentrification and colonialism are basically the same thing.

You mean the aren't? Isn't it just a difference of timing?

well, I kinda think they are. I guess I'm not sure what the differences are except for scale and the "bodies" doing the deeds (nations v. individuals, etc)

sweet tea

wait, how exactly am i stripping ch/ph of its natural resources and imposinging socio-cultural and linguistic structures on its peoples? i thought i was just trying to live in a place i can almost afford.

if i'm a colonizer, i want better perks.

armchair_warrior

man i just ate. why couldnt you guys post earlier. i gotta lay off the sauce for a while gotta take a long rest. i'll be back hehe. debating is fun. this is reffering about the colonization of ph/ps/ch

livetotravel

sweet tea wrote: wait, how exactly am i stripping ch/ph of its natural resources and imposinging socio-cultural and linguistic structures on its peoples? i thought i was just trying to live in a place i can almost afford.

if i'm a colonizer, i want better perks.

Pick up a copy of Albert Memmi's "The Colonizer and the Colonized" (Amazon has it) ...

Memmi makes an interesting point when he discusses the leftist position in respect to the natural position of a colonizer. Even though the leftist primarily rejects colonization, he soon finds himself assimilating into the culture because of the ever improving environment. “He participates in and benefits from those privileges which he half-heartedly denounces.” What Memmi is conveying is that the leftist colonizer is on an equal level in terms of treatment with his fellow citizens, which the colonized are certainly not.

Memmi also delivers the notion that one can be both a revolutionary and an exploiter, also giving evidence that the leftist has a dual face that they may not necessarily be able to control. The leftist can not at anytime truly relate themselves to the colonized for a very simple fact. It is the fact that the colonized are from different origins. It comes down to colonizers taking away the question, “who am I?” right from the hands of the colonized. What Memmi points out is that when the colonizer performs the colonization process, he is taking almost everything away from the colonized. History is taken, religion is taken, even the language is taken in order to set up a government with the colonizers language. And the leftist can not escape that factor which places him as both an exploiter and a revolutionary.

According to Memmi, the leftist usually finds himself in a struggle between traditional means of colonization and the final aims of the left wing to which he belongs. Another words, the colonizer is constantly toying with the idea of liberation among the colonized. However, he takes part daily within the natural acts of the colonizers.

There is an interesting comparison that can be made from the leftists of the colonization process to the leftists of modern day America. That comparison is the idea that both left-wing genres could not single out the powerful economic elite who represents. For instance, throughout the colonization process, the leftists could not alienate the upper-crust land owners and powerful bourgeois. While, political leftists today, who are more or less “liberals” must still pay homage to corporate elites for major campaign contributions and more simply, the process of corporate capitalism. That means that legislation does not often gear towards social reform as much as economic reform that traditionally benefits the one’s who need it the least.

“The leftist colonizer is part of the oppressing group and will be forced to share its destiny, as he shared its good fortune.”

qtrain

Livetotravel wrote: "yuppies & hipsters thanks alot!"
http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2864

your still a bunch of NIMBY's

boobear

actually i grew up in brooklyn in the 80's crack/cocaine era. i never left brooklyn. i had random beat downs cause i was diffrent than my neighbors being the only asian in either white working class areas or black or hispanic. didnt matter. anyway so dont pull the burbs crap. its no excuse for those kids who mug him to be a jackass and a thug.

No offense, but so what? Please explain what your childhood trauma has to do with any of this, because I fail to see the connection. And here's a tip: boo-hoo stories are a sorry way to try to win an argument.

For the last time, I never said violence was in any way cool or acceptable. It absolutely isn't, and we all have a right to be angry with the sad police patrolling in our area. But this indignance that it should happen to YOU .... you live in a city, these are the risks. File police reports, call 311 when you see something shady, and TALK to your neighbors.

These are constructive ways to try to improve our hood. Getting exercised because there are some bad actors out there just seems like a waste.

What an interesting introduction to this forum. Have a good weekend, everyone.

alafairnadia

Boobear wrote: But this indignance that it should happen to YOU .... you live in a city, these are the risks.

so it's okay to be indignant if you don't live in a city?

brooklynlover

Subject: More Girls

I think that side of Prospect Heghts needs more white girls. Maybe these hoodlums would be so busy dating they wouldn't have time to cuase trouble. We need more interacial dating. Make love not war.

armchair_warrior

Subject: Re: More Girls

BrooKlyNLoVeR wrote: I think that side of Prospect Heghts needs more white girls. Maybe these hoodlums would be so busy dating they wouldn't have time to cuase trouble. We need more interacial dating. Make love not war.

I'll make that call to The Man to bring in some white girls to pacifiy the natives males.

axel foley

Boobear wrote:

actually i grew up in brooklyn in the 80's crack/cocaine era. i never left brooklyn. i had random beat downs cause i was diffrent than my neighbors being the only asian in either white working class areas or black or hispanic. didnt matter. anyway so dont pull the burbs crap. its no excuse for those kids who mug him to be a jackass and a thug.

No offense, but so what? Please explain what your childhood trauma has to do with any of this, because I fail to see the connection. And here's a tip: boo-hoo stories are a sorry way to try to win an argument.

For the last time, I never said violence was in any way cool or acceptable. It absolutely isn't, and we all have a right to be angry with the sad police patrolling in our area. But this indignance that it should happen to YOU .... you live in a city, these are the risks. File police reports, call 311 when you see something shady, and TALK to your neighbors.

These are constructive ways to try to improve our hood. Getting exercised because there are some bad actors out there just seems like a waste.

What an interesting introduction to this forum. Have a good weekend, everyone.

Nobody said this incident was "unfair," nobody was particularly indignant about it, and the victim did not express shock that this sort of thing could happen to him. You just invented this tone to fit your notions about what white people should act like when they move into a predominantly black neighborhood. The day that people don't get worked up about someone getting assaulted on their block is the day this neighborhood regresses.

Do I realize that there a lot of complicated race and class issues going on in our neighborhood? Yes, especially since I could start a thread on this forum about what I had for breakfast and within three posts it would be about white people moving further east into Crown Heights. But, you know, I live here because I was priced out of other neighborhoods, not because I want to displace people. That's the way the world works. I'm eager to see this neighborhood progress, and don't buy into all this bullshit about equating colonists to gentrifiers--that's a horribly thought out argument that completely ignores people's intentions. It's called New York City changing, and it's been the only constant here since the city was founded.

armchair_warrior

Axel Foley wrote: [quote=Boobear]

actually i grew up in brooklyn in the 80's crack/cocaine era. i never left brooklyn. i had random beat downs cause i was diffrent than my neighbors being the only asian in either white working class areas or black or hispanic. didnt matter. anyway so dont pull the burbs crap. its no excuse for those kids who mug him to be a jackass and a thug.

No offense, but so what? Please explain what your childhood trauma has to do with any of this, because I fail to see the connection. And here's a tip: boo-hoo stories are a sorry way to try to win an argument.

For the last time, I never said violence was in any way cool or acceptable. It absolutely isn't, and we all have a right to be angry with the sad police patrolling in our area. But this indignance that it should happen to YOU .... you live in a city, these are the risks. File police reports, call 311 when you see something shady, and TALK to your neighbors.

These are constructive ways to try to improve our hood. Getting exercised because there are some bad actors out there just seems like a waste.

What an interesting introduction to this forum. Have a good weekend, everyone.

Nobody said this incident was "unfair," nobody was particularly indignant about it, and the victim did not express shock that this sort of thing could happen to him. You just invented this tone to fit your notions about what white people should act like when they move into a predominantly black neighborhood. The day that people don't get worked up about someone getting assaulted on their block is the day this neighborhood regresses.

Do I realize that there a lot of complicated race and class issues going on in our neighborhood? Yes, especially since I could start a thread on this forum about what I had for breakfast and within three posts it would be about white people moving further east into Crown Heights. But, you know, I live here because I was priced out of other neighborhoods, not because I want to displace people. That's the way the world works. I'm eager to see this neighborhood progress, and don't buy into all this bullshit about equating colonists to gentrifiers--that's a horribly thought out argument that completely ignores people's intentions. It's called New York City changing, and it's been the only constant here since the city was founded.



totally agree.

brooklynlover

Subject: Gentrifying is Colonization

I think it is cuase white people don't like to mix with the current residents. They try to create a lil social colony. They don't attempt to intergrate themselves sharing their positive aspects and taking in positive aspects of the local community.

You just want a safe, hip "nabe" for Jennifer and John, you could give a fuck where the locals go. That's why the locals won't go without of fight. They might lose the "nabe" eventually but it ain't going to be easy. The locals are people with nothing to lose.

armchair_warrior

Subject: Re: Gentrifying is Colonization

BrooKlyNLoVeR wrote: I think it is cuase white people don't like to mix with the current residents. They try to create a lil social colony. They don't attempt to intergrate themselves sharing their positive aspects and taking in positive aspects of the local community.

You just want a safe, hip "nabe" for Jennifer and John, you could give a fuck where the locals go. That's why the locals won't go without of fight. They might lose the "nabe" eventually but it ain't going to be easy. The locals are people with nothing to lose.

when would people learn to stop blaming other people and take some responsibility. instead of going oh its white people who dont intergrate and this and that...... god.. for a penny everyone blames everyone else i'll be rich.

brooklynlover

Subject: Clueless Hipster

Yeah I see where you are coming from. Stop blaming the white man. Black people should just lift themselves up by their boot straps.

You hipsters live in your own realty. Have you any idea how these areas came to be that way. If you don't ask your parents or white neighbor why they moved out of ProHo and Crown Heights when middle class black people started buying and renting in those areas.

armchair_warrior

Subject: Re: Clueless Hipster

BrooKlyNLoVeR wrote: Yeah I see where you are coming from. Stop blaming the white man. Black people should just lift themselves up by their boot straps.

You hipsters live in your own realty. Have you any idea how these areas came to be that way. If you don't ask your parents or white neighbor why they moved out of ProHo and Crown Heights when middle class black people started buying and renting in those areas.

1. not a hipster. i'm a working class guy. so are my parents.
2. the sin of the parents arent the sins of the childern. its the past and let it lie there. the folks that lived there has notthing to do with the current generation of people here.

brooklynlover

Subject: Working Class Hipster

You may not have committed the sin but by the way you talk, you seem doomed to repeat it. I kinda of understand why you say things like that, you're not from a majority non-white area. Blacks/Hispanics should only take care of your children not have a say in the direction their neighborhood should go. Money talks, right, this is capitalism.

armchair_warrior

Subject: Re: Working Class Hipster

BrooKlyNLoVeR wrote: You may not have committed the sin but by the way you talk, you seem doomed to repeat it. I kinda of understand why you say things like that, you're not from a majority non-white area. Blacks/Hispanics should only take care of your children not have a say in the direction their neighborhood should go. Money talks, right, this is capitalism.

you actually make me laugh. i'm not even white! anyway i grew up in in both working class white/hispanic/black working class areas. and its the same thing as this area. so please dont give me some bull.

brooklynlover

Well your not Black or Hispanic or else you wouldn't come up with the tired bullS*!t. Your lack of understanding and knowledge is amazing.

armchair_warrior

BrooKlyNLoVeR wrote: Well your not Black or Hispanic or else you wouldn't come up with the tired bullS*!t. Your lack of understanding and knowledge is amazing.

the only bull is coming from your direction. since youre a real poster. i'm not gonna humor you anymore.

axel foley

Subject: Re: Gentrifying is Colonization

BrooKlyNLoVeR wrote: I think it is cuase white people don't like to mix with the current residents. They try to create a lil social colony. They don't attempt to intergrate themselves sharing their positive aspects and taking in positive aspects of the local community.

You just want a safe, hip "nabe" for Jennifer and John, you could give a fuck where the locals go. That's why the locals won't go without of fight. They might lose the "nabe" eventually but it ain't going to be easy. The locals are people with nothing to lose.

Nobody said anything about being hip, but yeah, I do want a safe neighborhood to live in. I think everyone on earth probably does.

I don't know what you propose to take in positive aspects of the local community. I patronize local businesses frequently. But personally speaking, I don't think I'd be a member of the block association or the community board or whatever if I lived in Manhattan or Park Slope or anywhere, at least not at my current age (and most white people I see living around here are pretty young). I'm not trying to segregate myself, I'm just trying to live in peace. You're allowed to be pretty anonymous in New York if you want to be, which is a big selling point.

Your argument sounds like a pretty crappy excuse to justify thuggish tactics.

quig

First of all, Fury, I’m glad you’re OK. But, you should fill out a report. It pisses me off when cops don’t do their job. They don’t want to deal with the paperwork. If the assault numbers go up in the 77th they will allocate more manpower. An officer told me that since the “stats” for crime are low in this area the 77th has a low cop allocation for this part of CH / PH.

Second, speaking as a former 12-18 year-old male. At that age, no matter what race, the brain is set on “stupid behavior to impress your friends and or chicks.” I don’t think that the kid was thinking about issues of gentrification, Ratner and or the race of his landlord. My guess would be that he was thinking that it would be funny if he cold-cocked some white guy. If you happened to be black, (and flying solo) he probably would of done the same thing.

the fury

I'm not sure why the cops didn't advise me to file a report. At the time, I felt that I had made the responsible choice in calling the police at all, since I didn't require an ambulance and hadn't been robbed.

After reading responses to my posting, I realize that there are other issues involved, beyond catching the guy. I do plan to go to back to the police to file a report. I don't expect the guy to be found, but I want the area's statistics to be accurate and I hope to increase patrols, if possible.

I appreciate those of you who've expressed concern. I know it could have been a lot worse and I know I'm lucky that it wasn't.

For those of you who think I had it coming to me, since I walked home alone at 2 am, it sounds to me like you are ok with this sort of violent behavior. In case you hadn't noticed, the weekend subway service has been abysmal recently. I was coming from way uptown and the ride home took much longer than anticipated, so I didn't expect to arrive home so late.

I think it's pretty sad that you would just accept an act of violence and shrug it off as "part of the scenery." Also, I am far from arrogant and I live here, because I like the area and I don't have a lot of money, so I require cheap rent. I would love to "adapt" a life style where I had a personal chaffeur and body gaurd for all my trips to the bodega, but I don't think this is a possibility for me or for most of my neighbors here.

I don't expect people to adopt my standards, I simply expect them try there damndest to fight the urges telling them to punch me in the head.
If you feel that my desire to have my head remain intact is arrogant, I assume I'd recognize you in the neighborhood by your lumpy disfigured face or the mask you use to cover it. Enough said.

apollonia666

Axel Foley wrote: But, you know, I live here because I was priced out of other neighborhoods, not because I want to displace people. That's the way the world works. I'm eager to see this neighborhood progress, and don't buy into all this bullshit about equating colonists to gentrifiers--that's a horribly thought out argument that completely ignores people's intentions. It's called New York City changing, and it's been the only constant here since the city was founded.

DINGDINGDINGDINGDING! On the nose, Axel. I'm here because I needed a place I can afford by myself. I'm a nonprofit worker and got forced out of my last apartment because of a huge rent increase. I hate to think that my presence may make it more difficult for someone who's been here longer to stay, especially given that that's what just happened to me, but it's not like I'm some well-paid yuppie type. I had to go *somewhere*, I like this neighborhood, and I do want to be a good neighbor to other people who live here, regardless of whether they've been here a long time or are just moving here themselves.

ar

Subject: Re: Gentrifying is Colonization

BrooKlyNLoVeR wrote: That's why the locals won't go without of fight.

Or selling thier houses for a HUGE profit! You should be a comedian.

dan.h

Subject: Re: More Girls

BrooKlyNLoVeR wrote: I think that side of Prospect Heghts needs more white girls. Maybe these hoodlums would be so busy dating they wouldn't have time to cuase trouble. We need more interacial dating. Make love not war.

What are you trying to say about hoodlums? Why not expand on this.

My interpretation:
Dem black folks sho like da white girls!!

candicissima

Subject: Re: More Girls

dan.h wrote: [quote=BrooKlyNLoVeR]I think that side of Prospect Heghts needs more white girls. Maybe these hoodlums would be so busy dating they wouldn't have time to cuase trouble. We need more interacial dating. Make love not war.

What are you trying to say about hoodlums? Why not expand on this.

My interpretation:
Dem black folks sho like da white girls!!

See, you're better than me. I wasn't even going to touch that.

alafairnadia

Subject: Re: More Girls

Candicissima wrote: [quote=dan.h][quote=BrooKlyNLoVeR]I think that side of Prospect Heghts needs more white girls. Maybe these hoodlums would be so busy dating they wouldn't have time to cuase trouble. We need more interacial dating. Make love not war.

What are you trying to say about hoodlums? Why not expand on this.

My interpretation:
Dem black folks sho like da white girls!!

See, you're better than me. I wasn't even going to touch that.

heh. I was. I don't know how to term the incident that occurred to me tonight, though, to explain my ... horrified reaction to this original comment.

also, I take issue with the genius that is BrooKlNLoVeR for some of his subsequent comments - the assumption that both race and cultural origin are obvious on the face of a person and thus easily interpreted by poor-meaning hoodlums is obnoxious.

and, just so you guys know, coming up behind a woman and following her into her foyer in a pathetic attempt to get a date, or an invite for a f**k ... well, unless the chick is stupid, it ain't gonna work. and having to reassure the woman that she's not about to be mugged or raped -- that you just want to get to know her -- would be the first sign that this plan is ill-conceived.

armchair_warrior

I had a long talk once with a bunch of ghetto guys i know. they swear by it that it works. girls love the hollering and naming calling from the stoop or street corner. when i see them do it, almost all girls walk away in diguest. I keep telling them it doesnt work lol.

the fury

Subject: UPDATE: REPORT FILED

So, in response to all of your comments, I called the police again to file a report. Officers Berson and Parente came to my apartment and we discussed the incident in depth. Surprisingly, Officer Berson had already read the account that I posted here on Dailyheights. I thought you all might like to know that the police are keeping an eye on our topics of conversation, in case there's anything going on that they should know about.

Officer Berson had read my account and was surprised that the orginal responding officers didn't have me file a report. I realized that my original wording may have been a little innaccurate.

I feel a need to clarify my statement that the original responding officers "advised against filing a report." We had just finished searching the neighborhood and they were dropping me off at my apartment around 3:30 am. They asked if I wanted to file a report. I didn't know what was standard protocol in an incident like this, so I said, "I don't know, you tell me." They said something like, "well it's unlikely that we'll find the guy, if we didn't find him just now." That was the full answer to my question...they didn't advise me against filing a report, but they seemed to discourage me and at least made me think it unneccesary.

Officer Berson was very much in support of our community boards, but he emphasized the need to also directly inform the police of anything of note going on in the neighborhood. He also mentioned that there are community meetings on the second Tuesday of every month. You can call Detective Raton who deals in community affairs and find out the dates and locations of these meetings. He or other officers are present and they try to be responsive to the needs of the community.

If anyone in the Jewish Hospital Buildings already has a community board set up or would like to establish one, It may be wise for us to lobby for some sort of surveillance cameras in our courtyards, lobbys, and possibly in the elevators. I expect that the two new buildings on St. Marks will open soon and that the Summer will place more people on the streets and lead to more "incidents."

After some consideration, I've concluded that I may have been much better off, if I had had mace during my confrontation. I may not have avoided that first and only punch, but if the assault continued I would have felt justified in spraying the guy. Officer Berson said that anyone who has been sprayed with mace is very easy to find, because they are so profoundly affected by the spray. For anyone nervous about their safety and worried about defending themselves, I would reccomend getting some mace, for peace of mind, if nothing else.

I think that sums it up for now. Thanks for the feedback thus far.


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