ASSAULTED on Prospect PL.

quijibo

Subject: Re: UPDATE: REPORT FILED

The FURY wrote: After some consideration, I've concluded that I may have been much better off, if I had had mace during my confrontation. I may not have avoided that first and only punch, but if the assault continued I would have felt justified in spraying the guy. Officer Berson said that anyone who has been sprayed with mace is very easy to find, because they are so profoundly affected by the spray. For anyone nervous about their safety and worried about defending themselves, I would reccomend getting some mace, for peace of mind, if nothing else.

sorry this happened to you
glad you're ok

mace = bad idea
precious time that you should be using to defend yourself
will be wasted on finding that can of mace inside your left jacket pocket
beneath the package of kleenex. or is it in my back pocket?
or my right ankle? or is it home?

it will only serve to make the situation worse. unless you got some of
that anti motherfucking cold-cock blind-siding kryptonite-shit mace

-- on the plus side, it may help the police apprehend the culprit
after.the.fact.

before i'd get motherfucking mace
i'd get me a set of wolverine-motherfucking-adamantamium-12-inch-long-blades-that-shoot-outta-my-motherfucking-knuckles

that. or i'd get me some giant motherfucking snakes and hang
them off my shoulders. and put a wristwatch around them

"what? you want the motherfucking time?"
"sure. no motherfucking problem. ask the motherfucking-12-foot-snake carrying-the-motherfucking-Rolex-around-my-motherfucking-neck"

again. sorry this happened to you
glad you're ok

liftandcut

It's wack that you got duffed, Fury, but really, it seems like every week there's a post about a white person getting robbed or confronted in Prospect Heights. Where, honestly, did you think you were moving to when you chose PH? Those same dudes who hit you have probably fucked with non-whites too. This has been happening in the boroughs since I can remember. If you look like a target, then you're gonna get messed with. White people have the right to move anywhere they want to (they always do, anyway), but you're not Columbus with an army and diseases, so you'll have to put up with muggings and such for only a few more years. But the notion that you should feel safe in your own neighborhood is hilarious. Yeah, we all "should," but that's not the way it works. PH is popular because it is cheap (or was), not because it is safe. Cops patrol in predominantly white nieghborhoods, not brown ones. And if I have to read or hear one more white person say "it doesn't matter if you're white, Black, green or purple," I'm gonna pull a Larry Davis. People aren't green and purple, you bleeding heart liberal nitwit. If you saw a purple person on the street you'd cross it, just like you do when I walk around PH. Smile!

mr. tips

Glad yer OK and that you brought it to the attention of all of us.

sweet tea

liftandcut wrote: If you saw a purple person on the street you'd cross it, just like you do when I walk around PH. Smile!

who are all these street-crossing people? they must get so much more exercise than i do.... (i imagine their zig-zaggy paths home, little dotted lines like loveable ol' billy used to leave on family circus.....)

if i saw a purple person, i'd stay on my side of the street just cause i'm too damn lazy to walk the extra 50 feet. that's a sad thing, when you're too lazy to be casually racist.....

if we're going to be real yuppie invaders, maybe we should get personal trainers to walk the streets with us, barking at us to jog across the street whenever we see another person.....

liftandcut

Please, on at least 20 occasions since I moved to PH, I've had the good fortune of walking toward a white person, usually a woman, to watch her cross the street, only to see her get to the corner and cross back over to the original side she was walking on. It's fucking ridiculous. But really, it's nothing new. It has happened to me many times, no matter where I've lived. I gotta say that white vision must be getting better, because at least they cross when they see me from the other end of the block, instead of from the usual 30 feet away. It makes it less obvious, and certainly, less hurtful. Cheers!

sweet tea

that stinks like eggs. i didn't mean to say it had never happened, only that i can't imagine doing it myself. i mean, maybe if a person were, say, covered in rotating knives. but not just for a purple person. or even a green one.

liftandcut

Ok, well there won't ever be a purple or green person unless it's Halloween.

vanilla

liftandcut wrote: Please, on at least 20 occasions since I moved to PH, I've had the good fortune of walking toward a white person, usually a woman, to watch her cross the street, only to see her get to the corner and cross back over to the original side she was walking on. It's fucking ridiculous. But really, it's nothing new. It has happened to me many times, no matter where I've lived.

not that this makes things any better, but this has also happened to one of my WHITE friends all his life. probably because he is over 6' tall and a BIG guy. funny thing is, too, he a total wimp; not so much muscular but lots of women do that to him, not just white women.

boobear

But the notion that you should feel safe in your own neighborhood is hilarious. Yeah, we all "should," but that's not the way it works. PH is popular because it is cheap (or was), not because it is safe. Cops patrol in predominantly white nieghborhoods, not brown ones. And if I have to read or hear one more white person say "it doesn't matter if you're white, Black, green or purple," I'm gonna pull a Larry Davis. People aren't green and purple, you bleeding heart liberal nitwit. If you saw a purple person on the street you'd cross it, just like you do when I walk around PH. Smile!

THANK YOU, liftandcut. Pretending you live in some kind of Benetton ad is no way to keep your ass safe in PH.

And do you guys always attack posters whose opinions don't mesh with yours? Is that what they're teaching at Oberlin these days?

And RBG -- I don't find it particularly useful to ever say a person gives their race a "bad name." But I did like what you said here....

I guess I befriened John to try to change his perception of black people....I adopted him in my own way.

...b/c it's pretty damn funny. Shall we start an Adopt-a-White-Person program in our hood? Maybe Carl's Place can be our HQ.

armchair_warrior

i'm not a gentrifier nor do i have money. i'm just a guy who can only afford this area. its just the only place that is still cheap enough to do it. hey someone else brought places that i lived in my all my life gotten to expensive to for me.

so should i go out and beat the crap out of people who recently move to the areas i grew up in? of course not i'm not a hostile jerk off. if you think people who lived here earlier has more rights than the new comers. than i hope you'll never feel a wrath of native americans. i bet you they'll love to kick out all the illegal immigrants to this country!

so please dont bring none of that bs about folks not being neighborly or being hostile to the locales. we are the new locales that some old locales dont respect at all. who in their right minds attack another human being unless out of hatred. I just cant stand people giving criminals and thugs excuses being violent to other human beings.

hell my lovely neighbors keeps dumping junk into my front yard every week. my house isnt finish yet. when it does, i'll put a camera up and hope to catch these nice locale people.

for now i'll live how i always live in all areas of nyc. I dont like talking to strangers and i dont ever say hello to people unless i know them. thats how i am. not gonna change cause some locals dont like it. too bad i'm here and gonna stay here.
if people want strangers to smile and wave and nod. move to the south or mid west. thats why i'm in nyc.

RBG you know when i was younger Carnise was mostly middle class white area. should those white people there complain about all the blacks moving in. hell al sharpton would be there so fast and screaming bloody racism. yet when people here complain about the gentrification of the area. gentrification is just another coded word for being racist to the new comers.

alafairnadia

Boobear wrote: ...b/c it's pretty damn funny. Shall we start an Adopt-a-White-Person program in our hood? Maybe Carl's Place can be our HQ.

carl's place is no more. your white folk re-education program will have to go elsewhere.

alafairnadia

Subject: Re: RBG--a possible attack diverted

RBG wrote: "It is the evil that prowls behind the martini bars, loft, and hipster sushi spots that scares me."

RBG wrote: Maybe I'll read Quibjo's post another time...I'm off to Fort Greene for a free Party sposnored by Smirnoff....

armchair_warrior

I think some of you who dont want gentrification want the old time segragation. if Dr. King is alive to he would be ashamed of you guys.

emily

Subject: Re: RBG--a possible attack diverted

alafairnadia wrote: [quote=RBG]"It is the evil that prowls behind the martini bars, loft, and hipster sushi spots that scares me."

RBG wrote: Maybe I'll read Quibjo's post another time...I'm off to Fort Greene for a free Party sposnored by Smirnoff....

For the win!

boobear

I think some of you who dont want gentrification want the old time segragation. if Dr. King is alive to he would be ashamed of you guys.

Playing the Dr. King card .... are you kidding me? This is worse than my eighth-grade debate club.

As for Carl's Place -- RIP. I knew it wasn't long for this world.

Anyhow, did you guys know that the now-defunct laundromat on the corner of St. Johns and Underhill is going to be turned into a two-floor sports bar? That's what the owner told me, anyway. Time to start circulating those q-of-life petitions....

sweet tea

Subject: Re: RBG--a possible attack diverted

RBG wrote: "It is the evil that prowls behind the martini bars, loft, and hipster sushi spots that scares me."

Who Knows What Evil Lurks in The Heart of Gen?

stacey

I am not a person of minority so I cannot tell you what these young kids feel when they run up and punch an innocent person. But when you say - reach out - find out the real root of the problem, you tell me how, as a white woman, do I do that when they are so angry at me. Im so sick of hearing help them, help them, but what about those kids who spend their afternoons in PS 9 working on community projects, taking extra classes to help them better themselves. They are HUNGRY for knowledge, for assistance and I would rather spend my time helping those who want it than those kids who feel the are owed it. Do I think these "punk" kids are useless - hell no!!! But again please tell me, if I am the enemy (or if the minority community sees me as a threat), what am I to do to help these kids?

The problem to me lies in the people on the board saying "I dont agree with it - but I understand it". You are giving these kids a crutch in which to use. Have you ever gone to a community meeting for this area – it is the African American people who show up in full force complaining about the same things we are - what is it you say to them? Suck it up you lived here you know what goes on?

I have live in this area all my life and I remember when Gowanus was a war zone - people started banding together and saying "screw this we are not going to put up with it" and started the Tenants Patrol. What do you say to them - hey you live in the projects deal with it?

In the 80's the vibe was "mind your business and keep your doors locked" - well people are tired of this - I refuse to be a prisoner in a neighborhood that I live in. I dont care what anyone says.

Now speaking as a woman - I cross the street sometimes when I see a group because a lot of times I get rude remarks - not about my race but of a sexual nature. I tend to answer back and get up in faces myself so I avoid it by crossing the street.

If you truly feel that white people are pushing African Americans out than how do you feel about Magic Johnson, an affluent, popular African American building luxury apartments in our area?

I don’t want this to be a rant I really want this to be productive where you as an African American (and/or) minority, my neighbor, my online friend can suggest to me how to help make this better.

armchair_warrior

its just easier to blame other people and not get any thing done. not try to intergate and get to know the new people, so blame the gentrifier.

candicissima

I really don't think there is an answer or even one perspective to have. But, I think especially on the board there's a tendency to flatten every issue and people that can't even process that there might be shaded opinions on the issues at hand.

I don't like that people are getting burned out and pushed out due to rent increases of the places they've been living because slumlords are flipping buildings and going after the quick (and usually white) money. I also don't like the drug dealer on the first floor of my building who leers at me because I'm minding my own business and I'm a woman that isn't trying to give him the time of day because I didn't go to college to date a deadbeat drug dealer who lives with his mom. I also don't like when people cross the street and clutch their bags when I pass them on the street just because I'm black. And I especially don't like the tone of some of the posters that call every kid standing on the street a punk and cheer when people get forced out of the neighborhood.

Someone touches you or tries to intimidate you, call the cops. Pissing contests and obnoxious retorts like the old cases of JimmyJones and JamesonDean are entitled bullshit and it makes things worse instead of better. I don't think anyone should be forced to deal with violence, but this is the real world and a city with millions of people and shit is just as likely to happen in our little neighborhood bubble as midtown at high noon. And I know that treating people who are your neighbors -- no matter how much longer that might be -- as interlopers when they've been here longer than you and/or as potential threats when they could be just minding their own business is bullshit and I'll pretty much always defend that against overly entitled "I can't wait until the gourmet deli opens up" crap. And I, as an adult, am hard pressed to understand how other adults can be intimidated by kids. They're not going to give you shit if you indicate from the start that you're not going to take any and if they do, well call the cops if you've got to.

And I'm also going to be honest and say that I'm not very sympathetic to some Pollyanna "golly, those young black kids are awfully hostile to me? what did i do?" Either you deal with it or you don't and I'm frankly confused about when the boards became the "support the beleaguered white people" forums.

ar

Candicissima wrote:

And I'm also going to be honest and say that I'm not very sympathetic to some Pollyanna "golly, those young black kids are awfully hostile to me? what did i do?" Either you deal with it or you don't and I'm frankly confused about when the boards became the "support the beleaguered white people" forums.

The board just became the "beleaguered white people forums" when the weather got warmer and the kids are out in full force ( Assaulting and Imtimidating people( and yes they are white, male and female). It will stop when the neighborhood is EQUALLY safe for everyone. Getting picked on and targeted sucks. It's true, the kids target the "white folk", you know it, you just said it,(insert pollyanna comment here), so do you think the kids have the right? I don't think you should have to deal with your drug dealer in your building, why should I have to deal with kids that don't like me because of my skin color? Back to my original post before you took out a serious personal assault on me, the "grown ups" here are great, the kids, better pack their bags now, the more controversy they stir up (especially in PH) the more cops come and the easier it is to kick them out of their homes, they are making their own demise. Criminals are criminals, no matter where you live. If a white neighborhood targeted another race it would be a hate crime, somehow, the bleeding heart liberals here say, "It's so sad they are being displaced, come on, let them beat up a few white people, after all they deserve to".

candicissima

Since you had to jump up in there, AR, I'm gonna say: I don't care about your problems. Some little kids are bothering you, so tell them to fuck off or do something about it. Because I don't really see what the point of playing all hardass "they can all go to hell and rot " on the board is doing you if you're so obviously terrified of them in real life. Suck it up and deal or shut up. No one here is going to go vigilante and hold your hand, so I'm not really sure what your constant whining is trying to accomplish. Because the last time I checked most of the white people -- or the non-white people of the board -- aren't especially being held hostage by anything.nor is anyone advocating a "target whitey" either. It might be hard for you to understand, but the boards aren't about you.

doctorj

armchair_warrior wrote: its just easier to blame other people and not get any thing done. not try to intergate and get to know the new people, so blame the gentrifier.

<2c>

Reading the melee with interest... I want to know: who are these Gentrifiers? I wander round most streets any time of day or night. I don't see them. I see quite a few working people my age, some my color, doing what they do, mostly making a living and a life. My neighbors come from all round the world, all colors. Some recent, some long time residents, not especially rich, not especially poor. And my pasty face passes by the kids hanging out on Washington, and we shop at some of the same places, but I've never gotten attitude. If I'm not in too much of a rush, there's a smile and a nod to the people I meet. Otherwise I zigzag because I like to walk fast and otherwise I'd bump right into someone. Maybe I'm just totally naive because I have zero baggage when it comes to American race and class relations, but y'all seem like a fairly friendly bunch compared with other cities I've lived in. We could all do a lot worse.

So I got a lift home the other night from this lovely couple who've lived on the other side of Washington from me for ever and ever, and the subject of The Gentrifiers came up, and how the proud history and culture of the nabe was being forced out and so on. So I say: hey, that's totally me. I just blew in here from nowhere with what I'd scraped together, 'cos it's the nicest I could afford in NY and I really like it here. (Bought a place from a long time white local as it happens). And they say it's not you, we can respect you because you come from way outside, it's those Gentrifiers who are the problem. Ok, and it was all fun, but I still can't figure out who or where they are, or what they're up to.

This reminds me a bit of the last country I lived in, where there's a pretty nasty anti-immigrant vibe going down. Every day the press and people I met would be bashing minorities, and I'd say hey wait up, that's me you're talking about. And they'd say no, it's not you, it's those real immigrant immigrants we don't like (i.e. racism in denial). And I ask why do you people hate immigrants? Can't you just accept that the only reason we're here is to dilute your culture, steal your jobs and your daughters? So it's all fun and games, until someone really offends someone else and all of a sudden property is getting torched and National Socialists are voted into parliament. Then it really is time to move on.

I'll probably never be rich enough to live in the places where my working class parents settled and slowly became middle class. The vibe died in the places I hung out when I was younger, as some people moved on, other people settled down or blew in with money, so I can sort of relate. There's no going back, but you know what, I don't miss those places and those times and that culture at all, because the world keeps changing and you've got to keep moving forward.

</2c>

brooklynlover

Subject: Complainers

All you people do is complain, complain, complain. "Mommy some kids were teasing me." I guess that's what happens when you are raised to feel the world is yours. All you have to do is move somewhere and the place and people will change, conform to your needs.
"I can't get a good latte around here; there's no Sushi Bar in this "nabe." I have to take the train one or two stops just to get decent sushi." Fu*&ing babies. White people are spoiled, they are used to getting what they want, whenever they want; even if they have to take it from someone else. Now because some neighborhoods which are majority black/hispanic won't bend to their needs, they're whining. Get over yourselves. In these neighborhoods you're the minorities, learn to work with the people. Stop cowering and sucking your thumbs.
These so called punk kids my not be highly educated, read the NYTimes or own a skateboard, but they know their history. They know how it so happened that some "nabes" became all white or all white. They are also very much aware of what happens when white people start moving into a desired "neighborhood." They will get kicked out the neighborhood whether the harass you or not. So they might as well harass you.[/i]

emily

BrooKlyNLoVeR, the site admin has already warned you that lame "you people" type generalizations and name-calling are not welcome here.

homeowner

The board just became the "beleaguered white people forums" when the weather got warmer and the kids are out in full force ( Assaulting and Imtimidating people( and yes they are white, male and female). It will stop when the neighborhood is EQUALLY safe for everyone.

This is where you lose me. Do you really think that only white people get this treatment? This neighborhood is equally unsafe for anyone that these kids think might be a mark. The kid who got his ipod stolen at knifepoint on Thompkins Ave by two other kids? Black. The folks who are the victims of violent crimes in PH and CH that end up in the Post's Police Blotter? Black. ITS NOT JUST WHITE FOLKS. Its anyone they think they can harass and intimidate.

its just easier to blame other people and not get any thing done. not try to intergate and get to know the new people, so blame the gentrifier

These are kids we are talking about. Have you ever known kids to go out of their way to meet adults? Sure maybe when the are 6-8 but by the time most kids are 10-11 they have started to move into the "us vs. them" mentality about all adults. You wouldn't expect a bunch of teens hanging out in a mall to walk up to you and introduce themselves, why do you expect these kids to? If you want to get to know them, you as the adult have to make that first step.

But again please tell me, if I am the enemy (or if the minority community sees me as a threat), what am I to do to help these kids?

Try just saying hello. Nothing more. When you come down your block every day and you pass the same group of kids, say hello to them. Have them start to recognize you as their neighbor, not just some miscellaneous white chick.

brooklynlover

Subject: Site Admin

When I say you people; I mean the people complaining. To me what makes a gentrifier what he/she is, is his/her sense of entitlement. Why is a gentrifier entitled to have a latte shop in a neighborhood where graduation rate is like 15%? Why does a "nabe" need a sushi bar when the local schools don't have books? Who in the neighborhood can afford food when you turn the local key food or c-town into a gourmet market?

There are sob stories on both sides. Get off your sense of entitlement and face the realities of life in a neighborhood you don't yet control. I apologize if you think I mean all white people.

boobear

This reminds me a bit of the last country I lived in, where there's a pretty nasty anti-immigrant vibe going down.

Oh no you DIDN'T!! Are you seriously invoking the plight of Muslim immigrants in Europe in this thread about scared yupsters in PH? That is bold, my friend. Bold.

Seriously, tho, when we talk about gentrifiers (ICK, so sophomore year) or hipsters or yupsters or whatever, we certainly don't just mean white ppl*, as convenient as it is for you to think we are. As that bunny-rabbit dude just looooves to point out, Asian guys have it bad, too. And if Steve Erkel were to take a midnight stroll on Underhill, fuhgeddaboudit. So don't cry reverse racism just b/c you don't like what we're saying.

As far as I see it, there is a problem of willful ignorance here. "I am not to blame for the sins of my fathers." "I am white but grew up middle/working class." OK, fine. But do you really think you can just extract yourself from the complicated social/economic/racial networks at work in your neighborhood?

Spend some time in a nearby failing public school, which is almost -- but not nearly as -- scary as reading the stats on minority and poor public school students. Many of them will not graduate. The males are more likely to do jail time before they're 30 than attend college. You think this is not your problem and you can just ignore it? Move to f---king Hoboken, then.

It's a crisis, and it affects us all - whether thru crime, taxes, the schools our children attend, whatever. We are lucky to live in this country, lucky to live in PH (which is a very nice nabe, and I live here by CHOICE). The morally responsible thing, in my view, is to try to help those in need. If you don't have money, you've got skills, education. Put them to work for someone other than yourself.

And for the libertarians in the audience, either quit complaining or go find an isolated ranch in flyover country and stay there.

*Some of my best friends are white, for real.

livetotravel

The "Entitlement Generation" - those born between 1979 and 1994 - have been described as impatient, self-serving, disloyal, unable to delay gratification - in short, feeling that they are entitled to everything.

If this describes you, please move to the right side of the room.

stacey

Boobear wrote: Spend some time in a nearby failing public school, which is almost -- but not nearly as -- scary as reading the stats on minority and poor public school students. Many of them will not graduate. The males are more likely to do jail time before they're 30 than attend college. You think this is not your problem and you can just ignore it? Move to f---king Hoboken, then.

I agree 100% Boobear - and if anyone is interested in taking him up on his offer all you need to do is PM me - we are looking for volunteers at PS 9 to help with weekend and afterschool activities for the kids. We are starting a robotics club and we are also looking for help with the boys and girls basketball teams as well as some kids need a coach/manager to help set up a soccer team. Some kids want to start a book club, computer club, etc. PS 9 also has a junior high school and the prinicpal there was interested in starting a "big brother type" counseling/tutoring program also but so far we have only had a small number of men and women volunteer for this.

liftandcut

The "Entitlement Generation" - those born between 1979 and 1994 - have been described as impatient, self-serving, disloyal, unable to delay gratification - in short, feeling that they are entitled to everything.

I was born in '72!