For those who have cars.

idlewild

All of you folks who have cars may want to consider this. I'm doing the boycott. If Venezuela can have $00.19 a gallon surely we can knock ours down to a buck and change. In fact, I'm gonna practice my eating a pastrami sandwich, watching a dvd and pedaling at the same time in the park right now. Bike! Don't fail me now!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060429/ap_on_re_us/fuel_boycott

escap

I hate to break it to you, but this kind of scheme has been a long running disaster and that judge in Texas really embarrassed himself with his ignorance.

If you boycott Exxon, then you will make the gas at all the other suppliers more expensive. Those suppliers, to cover the sudden increased demand, will buy Exxon's spare gas, likely at a price higher than Exxon was selling before. This kind of simplistic scheme is the result of lots of misconceptions about the energy industry, such as "The major western oil companies dominate global supply". In fact, they control just 20%--the other 80% are controlled by state run energy companies like Saudi Aramco.

Venezuela is one of the world's largest oil suppliers, and the govt there subsidizes energy prices for its own citizens, a policy that is environmentally disastrous, robs the country of resources that could be used for public services, promotes wasteful use, and discourages investment.

The best thing for America in the long run would be $10/gallon gas. Ever hear of global warming? $10 gas will be the father of the clean burning alternative fuels and energy conservation that environmentalists have been clamoring for for decades. I know it hurts, but this whole gas price hysteria is really short-sighted.

escap

Check out this link on urbanlegends.about.com that nicely summarizes the fallacy of the fuel boycott argument.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_gas_boycott_2006.htm

idlewild

Well, I'm certanly not limiting it to Exxon. And you bring up a good point of global warming. So fuck it! Boycott them all and maybe sell my car down the line. It doesn't matter we're going to be headed to an oil fueled depression anyway. Seeing how the cost of everything petrol related is going to skyrocket and that a lot of the populace will have to cut back on things like plastics, shoes, foods that use petrol based fertilizer, then you have the rents going up to compensate for the cost heating and so on.....it's going to be a real pleasant decade.

alafairnadia

escap wrote: The best thing for America in the long run would be $10/gallon gas. Ever hear of global warming? $10 gas will be the father of the clean burning alternative fuels and energy conservation that environmentalists have been clamoring for for decades. I know it hurts, but this whole gas price hysteria is really short-sighted.

I'm in shock! I totally agree with you. This is the way gas is priced in Europe (it's priced by liter - it works out to around $10/gallon) and their gasoline consumption is way lower than ours. people value things like fuel efficient vehicles, tiny cars, public transportation, walking, etc.

and speaking of Texas - Houston, one of the more conservative cities in the state, has finally built a light rail system that is expanding to the suburbs to try to cut emissions and gasoline consumption. Austin, widely lauded as a "liberal" city, has frequently voted DOWN a light rail/public transport system to cut vehicle traffic.

doctorj

Subject: Re: For those who have cars.

Idlewild wrote: If Venezuela can have $00.19 a gallon surely we can knock ours down to a buck and change.

If you would prefer to refuel your SUV in Venezuela, go right ahead.

Here are some of the hot deals (converted to USD/gallon) you can get in countries whose political, cultural, and socioeconomic situation is somewhat closer to the US, as well as their degree of fuel self-sufficiency.

Australia: $4.02 / gallon
United Kingdom: $6.80 / gallon
Denmark: $6.57 / gallon

Personally, I think a boycott of all suppliers of petroleum products is the way to go.

idlewild

Subject: Re: For those who have cars.

doctorj wrote: [quote=Idlewild] If Venezuela can have $00.19 a gallon surely we can knock ours down to a buck and change.

If you would prefer to refuel your SUV in Venezuela, go right ahead.

Here are some of the hot deals (converted to USD/gallon) you can get in countries whose political, cultural, and socioeconomic situation is somewhat closer to the US, as well as their degree of fuel self-sufficiency.

Australia: $4.02 / gallon
United Kingdom: $6.80 / gallon
Denmark: $6.57 / gallon

Personally, I think a boycott of all suppliers of petroleum products is the way to go.

Right, however, if I'm correct the countries you mention have a higher standard of living. I'm curious though , what do the greenies consider alternatives that can be produced cheaply and in high amounts to cover the whole spread of transportation fuel, cooking fuel, heating fuel,and other related that won't cost a bundle to reproduce and cost even more to buy? Although I did hear about the cooking oil. So who knows.

escap

alafairnadia wrote: I'm in shock! I totally agree with you.

Hey, I resent that! I guess there's a first time for everything.

Interesting point about Austin, btw--I did not know that.

escap

Subject: Re: For those who have cars.

Doctorj wrote: Personally, I think a boycott of all suppliers of petroleum products is the way to go.

Just curious, how would that work exactly? Do you mean forever, for environmental reasons? Laudable goal but obviously not possible right now. Or do you mean temporarily, until prices come down? In that case, as soon as they drop and people start buying again, prices will go right back up to where they are now.

Alafairnada, you may agree with me on this one as well--the person we can really thank for these prices is Senor Bush. The instability he caused in Iraq and his threats towards Iran, not to mention the way our foreign policy has alienated Latin America and strengthened Hugh Chavez's hand, all have contributed to the market jitters over future supply shortages that have driven prices sky high. Thanks W!

carnivore

I actually think gas should be taxed enough to bring the prices that high. Not only would that spur people toward greater fuel economy, but the extra tax money could be used to improve mass transportation and alternative power research.

Supply side is the wrong way to thing about a finite resource like petroleum. The only long term solution is to decrease demand.

doctorj

Subject: Re: For those who have cars.

Idlewild wrote: [quote=doctorj]

Australia: $4.02 / gallon
United Kingdom: $6.80 / gallon
Denmark: $6.57 / gallon

Right, however, if I'm correct the countries you mention have a higher standard of living.

Higher than the US? Depends on how you measure it, but no, not significantly higher or lower. More even distribution of wealth though, higher taxation and lower disposable income for the middle class.

Idlewild wrote:
I'm curious though , what do the greenies consider alternatives that can be produced cheaply and in high amounts to cover the whole spread of transportation fuel, cooking fuel, heating fuel,and other related that won't cost a bundle to reproduce and cost even more to buy? Although I did hear about the cooking oil. So who knows.

The obvious candidate is hydrogen, and sister products like methanol and ethanol, produced by whatever energy source you like. The technology is there, it's just the infrastructure that isn't. I'm banking on the free market switching us over before we've toFUBAR'd the planet, but the government could give it a nudge in the right direction by taxing gasoline to the tune of an extra 1% each month for the next 10 years and investing the proceeds heavily in alternatives.

By the way, don't worry about the plastics etc.: they're a byproduct of refining and we're not going to run out; we burn the surplus byproducts after we've made enough plastic, and there's thousands of years worth of coal if we need it.

doctorj

Subject: Re: For those who have cars.

escap wrote: [quote=Doctorj]Personally, I think a boycott of all suppliers of petroleum products is the way to go.

Just curious, how would that work exactly? Do you mean forever, for environmental reasons? Laudable goal but obviously not possible right now.

It's very simple: don't get a driver's license. Leave transport to the professionals -- they're much more efficient at it.

escap

Ah, I see. Well, since I've never owned a car and probably won't for the next 10 years at least, I've been practicing a de facto gas boycott my whole life.

I do occasionally use zipcar--with that, gas is 100% free.

doctorj

escap wrote: Ah, I see. Well, since I've never owned a car and probably won't for the next 10 years at least, I've been practicing a de facto gas boycott my whole life.

**high5**
-- same here

escap wrote: I do occasionally use zipcar--with that, gas is 100% free.

Occasional use of hire car, taxis, moving vans, is perfectly reasonable, as they tend to be much more energy efficient over their lifecycle.

The main problem in US cities other than New York, unlike most cities in the West, is that it's much more of a pain for ordinary people to make the choice we have. But if New York and all of Europe can figure out medium/high density and ubiquitous public transport, it's not impossible.

idlewild

Which will probably happen when this mayor or a future mayor decidses to post tolls on all the Manhattan inbound bridges. And it will happen.

kosherdave

Subject: Re: For those who have cars.

Idlewild wrote: All of you folks who have cars may want to consider this. I'm doing the boycott. If Venezuela can have $00.19 a gallon surely we can knock ours down to a buck and change. In fact, I'm gonna practice my eating a pastrami sandwich, watching a dvd and pedaling at the same time in the park right now. Bike! Don't fail me now!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060429/ap_on_re_us/fuel_boycott

try not to get pregnant!

anfield

How's that working out for you Dave?

kosherdave

ANFIELD wrote: How's that working out for you Dave?

Works for me, but...
http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3106&highlight=pastrami+sandwich

alafairnadia

kosherdave wrote: [quote=ANFIELD]How's that working out for you Dave?

Works for me, but...
http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3106&highlight=pastrami+sandwich

I've got some chorizo in my fridge if anyone needs an assist.

idlewild

Subject: Re: For those who have cars.

kosherdave wrote: [quote=Idlewild]All of you folks who have cars may want to consider this. I'm doing the boycott. If Venezuela can have $00.19 a gallon surely we can knock ours down to a buck and change. In fact, I'm gonna practice my eating a pastrami sandwich, watching a dvd and pedaling at the same time in the park right now. Bike! Don't fail me now!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060429/ap_on_re_us/fuel_boycott

try not to get pregnant!

From what? The pastrami samdwich or the dirty bike seat?

billtron

It seems to me from these sources that the U.S. uses more energy on internet usage than Belgium spends on everything.

While some presidents of the United States since 2000 have used this information to argue that we need more sources of fuel, I think that it means we should all move to Belgium.

On a related note, can I get a good gauffre au sucre around here?

armchair_warrior

not gonna work for me. i make a living off driving .

carnivore

Looks like we may soon be halfway there:

http://www.nydailynews.com//front/story/414383p-350211c.html

armchair_warrior

some of you guys should get a motorcycle or a bike or a scooter!

armchair_warrior

some of you guys should get a motorcycle or a bike or a scooter!

drano

What with so few lawns to do doughnuts on, there is little point to owning a car in the city.