Car Free Prospect Park

armchair_warrior

stacey wrote: I was talking about this with my 10 year old son last night and he thinks a good solution could be that only cars wtih 4 or more passengers (i.e, only HOV lanes) are allowed to cut through the park.

thats a great idea!!!!

rose

kosherdave wrote: Most of us work, and many work in the city, so by the time we get home to use the park it's 5:30 or 6:30 or whatever. Then there's only light till 8pm. So to have cars from 5-7 or whatever, is really using up the PRIME time for many of us to use the park.

That's the thing. Cars are allowed to be in the park at exactly the same time that the vast majority of runners and cyclists are using the park. There isn't enough room on the road for everyone. It's stupid and dangerous. There is no good reason for cars to be there.

armchair_warrior

I guess they are gonna close them . yay

Additional Roadways in N.Y. Parks to Be Closed

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By DIANE CARDWELL
Published: May 8, 2006

Moving to further reduce traffic in city parks, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg announced today that stretches of Central Park in Manhattan and Prospect Park in Brooklyn will close to cars under a six-month pilot program to begin June 5.

Under the plan, in Central Park, vehicles would no longer be able to use the East Drive of Central Park north of 72nd Street during weekday mornings or the West Drive in the afternoons. In Prospect Park traffic would lose morning access to the West Drive.

Officials said that the restrictions were intended to reduce potential conflicts between pedestrians and vehicles in the parks, and to increase weekday access for activities other than driving.

"For many years people coming to Prospect Park or Central Park for recreation during weekdays have had to share road space on the park drives with automobiles, and in all fairness it hasn't always been an easy relationship," Mr. Bloomberg said in Prospect Park as he announced the changes. "These new regulations will be especially welcome for the cyclists, joggers and inline skaters who use the park drive and it should also make entering and leaving the parks safer for pedestrians."

Officials estimated that approximately 865 vehicles would be affected by the Central Park closures and about 357 by those in Prospect Park. By contrast, Mr. Bloomberg said, on weekdays an average of 70,000 people use Central Park and 15,000 use Prospect Park. Officials said that they do not anticipate that the closures would unduly snarl traffic on streets surrounding the parks but said that they plan to study the affects of the changes in November with an eye toward making them permanent.

With the exception of the crosstown transverses in Central Park, both parks will remain closed to motor vehicles overnight and on weekends. In Central Park, only the West Drive will be open to cars between 7 a.m. and 10 a.m., while the East Drive north of 72nd Street will be open only from 3 p.m. to 7 p.m. From 72nd Street to 57th Street and 6th Avenue, the East Drive will continue to be open from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. In Prospect Park, only the East Drive will be open from 7 a.m. to 9 a.m., while both the East and West Drives will be open between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m.

muteflute

armchair_warrior wrote: In Prospect Park, only the East Drive will be open from 7 a.m. to 9 a.m., while both the East and West Drives will be open between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m.

Not really. They're only closing one half of it half the time. Kind of a cop-out, in the end. If you're gonna do it, do it all the way, that's what I have to say about the matter.

PS. My track bike has a brake. I wish I didn't need one, but even if I didn't, it will stay on that mofo.

rose

armchair_warrior wrote: In Prospect Park, only the East Drive will be open from 7 a.m. to 9 a.m., while both the East and West Drives will be open between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m.

This is just . . . stupid. Unless I am not comprehending this properly, cars are still allowed on all parts of the road every day at evening rush hour, which is the time of day when the largest number of runners and cyclists are also using the road. And when lots of people are trying to cross to get to the Long Meadow, the lake, etc. What's the point?

And what exactly is East Drive? Is that the stretch of road that parallels Parkside Ave?

This just seems like a totally half-ass solution. Less than half-ass.

whyfi

muteflute wrote: [quote=armchair_warrior]In Prospect Park, only the East Drive will be open from 7 a.m. to 9 a.m., while both the East and West Drives will be open between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m.

Not really. They're only closing one half of it half the time. Kind of a cop-out, in the end. If you're gonna do it, do it all the way, that's what I have to say about the matter.

Word.

I like the concern about the relatively small number of vehicles that are going to be affected. 357? Pittance compared to the 15k recreational users... but I do wonder about that number... is 357 the number of cars that would normally use only the west lane in the morning? As in, would roughly double that be expected to used the parkways total in the morning? And then do you double that to account for evening traffic for an all-day tally? Even so, that's still a small price, and you know that that 15k is gonna grow once traffic is gone...

easternpkwy

this is progress, not a half-assed solution. This is incrementalism, making baby steps, not going cold turkey.

357 is the number of drivers normally using the west drive to go from some point north of the park (Park Slope, Downtown Bklyn) to the neighborhoods south (Flatbush etc). They do this to miss the lights on PPW and PP-SW on their way to Park Circle - big deal. No great loss.

Why close the West but not the East? surely, many many more people than 357 drive from Flatbush north (toward Downtown, toward Manhattan) in the morning - do they need to use the park? Of course not - the East drive is utterly redundant with Ocean Avenue and Flatbush, not to mention several train and express bus lines. But the volume of traffic is too much for the major roads, so they need to use the East drive as a release valve (according to DOT).

What is missing from the Prospect Park piece of this program is the corrolary: if you close the West drive in the morning, you should close the East drive at night!

I bet this six month pilot program will become permanent. And I bet next summer you will see another step taken toward no cars whatsoever.

armchair_warrior

i think this will lead to a eventually ban on cars. just small steps at a time.

putz

as a cyclist, i am all for getting rid of the cars, but i have to say, riding with the cars feels a lot safer than riding on a nice weekend afternoon. i must have had a deathwish to ride this sunday afternoon. kids and bikes zigzagging all over, soccer and baseballs rolling across the road, people crossing without looking - i am amazed i havent had an accident yet. i think we need some more rules about sharing the road and more signs warning of the dangers.

alafairnadia

this isn't park specific, but I'd love it if the cops gave out more tickets to cyclists who ride on sidewalks. they've been driving me crazy locally. in the last couple of weeks, I've been cut off or had to shove over to make room for a bicycle more times than I've ever noticed before. it's irritating, and, especially at night, really dangerous.

communitybuilder

Al,
I'd posit that your gripe isn't with the cyclists. Your gripe is with NYC DOT and Mayor Bloomberg's utter lack of a transportation policy. The fact of the matter is that NYC devotes way too much of its public space to the storage and movement of automobiles. This squeezes the rest of us -- pedestrians, stroller-pushers, cyclists, cafe-sitters, bus users -- onto the margins. Crammed together on our minuscule little strips of sidewalk we get pissed at each other while the automobiles frolic across vast swaths of pavement and relax in their free and cheap parking spaces.

alafairnadia wrote: this isn't park specific, but I'd love it if the cops gave out more tickets to cyclists who ride on sidewalks. they've been driving me crazy locally. in the last couple of weeks, I've been cut off or had to shove over to make room for a bicycle more times than I've ever noticed before. it's irritating, and, especially at night, really dangerous.

armchair_warrior

communitybuilder wrote: Al,
I'd posit that your gripe isn't with the cyclists. Your gripe is with NYC DOT and Mayor Bloomberg's utter lack of a transportation policy. The fact of the matter is that NYC devotes way too much of its public space to the storage and movement of automobiles. This squeezes the rest of us -- pedestrians, stroller-pushers, cyclists, cafe-sitters, bus users -- onto the margins. Crammed together on our minuscule little strips of sidewalk we get pissed at each other while the automobiles frolic across vast swaths of pavement and relax in their free and cheap parking spaces.

[quote=alafairnadia]this isn't park specific, but I'd love it if the cops gave out more tickets to cyclists who ride on sidewalks. they've been driving me crazy locally. in the last couple of weeks, I've been cut off or had to shove over to make room for a bicycle more times than I've ever noticed before. it's irritating, and, especially at night, really dangerous.

we should do what london did. start charging alot of money to drive to down town brooklyn, lower manhattan to mid town.

this way people would be force to car pool use bikes/ scooters and motorcycles.

rose

I think that both the bikes-on-sidewalks problem and the congestion that supposedly requires the park to be open to traffic would be alleviated if the city would crack down on double parking. I guess communitybuilder will yell at me because I have a car (which I don't drive very often) -- but from the perspective of someone who sometimes drives in Park Slope, double parking is a huge problem. (okay, I just realized this is the PH forum, and you may not have the same issue in PH, but I will carry on anyway). It's absolutely torturous to drive on the side streets, with giant SUVs randomly double-parked on both sides of the street, so that you're forced to weave slowly between them. And the avenues aren't much better. And -- it makes it really dangerous to ride a bike around here. Even the bike lanes have double-parked cars in them.

easternpkwy

you are right, Rose, about double parking. If you think the Slope is bad, go south...Flatbush Ave, Church Ave, Cortelyou, Coney Island, any of the major roadways below the park are TERRIBLE for double parking - almost impassable. It drives me crazy, because that is some of the best terrain in Brooklyn for getting around on bikes: it's FLAT! Yet you never see anyone on a bike.

alafairnadia

well, I just think people should get tickets for blocking bike lanes, double parking, and riding bicycles on the sidewalk. period.

communitybuilder

Rose, I'm not going to yell at anyone for having a car. I will, however, yell about a city government that continues to maintain policies that promote car use while treating people who walk, ride bikes and buses like second-class citizens. I do sometimes yell at people for the way they drive their cars. But not just for having them.

Rose wrote: I guess communitybuilder will yell at me because I have a car (which I don't drive very often) -- .

candicissima

putz wrote: as a cyclist, i am all for getting rid of the cars, but i have to say, riding with the cars feels a lot safer than riding on a nice weekend afternoon. i must have had a deathwish to ride this sunday afternoon. kids and bikes zigzagging all over, soccer and baseballs rolling across the road, people crossing without looking - i am amazed i havent had an accident yet. i think we need some more rules about sharing the road and more signs warning of the dangers.

Isn't that the truth? They were (practically) killing me this weekend. I was riding both days with my hand on the brake because the asses were either not looking or just being really blase about people riding right towards them.

communitybuilder

it'd be nice if new yorkers followed rules of the road as well as, say, berliners. but it's also about your own expectations. motorists driving a car at rush hour shouldn't expect to move very fast. likewise, road bikers shouldn't expect to be able to fly around prospect park at full speed on a sunny, spring, weekend afternoon when tons of people are out. if you want to get your laps in, you've pretty much got to show up before 9am. or on a weekday. the #1 complaint that prospect park's admins get on a regular basis is about dangerous road cyclists going to fast on the loop drives. this always comes up as a stumbling block when TA tries to get pro-bike things done in the park.

Candicissima wrote: Isn't that the truth? They were (practically) killing me this weekend. I was riding both days with my hand on the brake because the asses were either not looking or just being really blase about people riding right towards them.