Violence in Bodega on Classon, Near Sterling

homeowner

Whynot, while I agree with most of what you posted, I submit that if a child has functioning parents that give them consequenses, the odds are much higher that the kid would not believe that s/he would be dead or in prision by the age of 21.

I also think that most of the people that have the mindset that you ascribe above don't think of their failure to get involved as being evil, they would say they are maintaining a position of neutrality. This belief that not speaking up and thereby incurring the wrath of the perpertrators is an okay alternative, is the thought process that needs to be changed. On the streets killing=evil/justifiable/understandable, silence=neutral.

Which brings me back to my personal pet peeve, the epidemic of children being raised by children. A 16 year-old is not prepared to be a functioning parent, especially these days when 26 year-olds are still being referred to as "kids" and are being supported by their parents. Neither is a 16 year old able to rationalize why doing the right thing is better than going along with the crowd. All of which gets us to broad daylight and nobody saw a thing.

whynot_31

MHA-
internal control would be ideal.

It would certainly give all of those struggling parents a lot of free time.

....if only folks were born knowing how to act. The phase "I'll give you the fear of God" comes to mind.

whynot_31

homeowner wrote: Whynot, while I agree with most of what you posted, I submit that if a child has functioning parents that give them consequenses, the odds are much higher that the kid would not believe that s/he would be dead or in prision by the age of 21.

I also think that most of the people that have the mindset that you ascribe above don't think of their failure to get involved as being evil, they would say they are maintaining a position of neutrality. This belief that not speaking up and thereby incurring the wrath of the perpertrators is an okay alternative, is the thought process that needs to be changed. On the streets killing=evil/justifiable/understandable, silence=neutral.

Which brings me back to my personal pet peeve, the epidemic of children being raised by children. A 16 year-old is not prepared to be a functioning parent, especially these days when 26 year-olds are still being referred to as "kids" and are being supported by their parents. Neither is a 16 year old able to rationalize why doing the right thing is better than going along with the crowd. All of which gets us to broad daylight and nobody saw a thing.

I agree with everything you state. ...and will amend "evil" to read "see below".

P.S. I suspect that most people believe they are "smart", "open minded", and "not evil".

...likely far more than should. :P

mha

I think that there is hope. Case in point: I've spoken ad infinitum about the amount of littering that occurs in front of my home. I expend great energies in attempts to keep it clean. It's much like keeping the tide back. I've said this over and over. The litter still exists, but the litterers are less inclined to act inappropriately in my presence. It's when I come out of my apartment, or as I approach it that I see evidence of their misdeeds. My reasoning is that the litterers feel some internal conflict littering overtly, but will now only engage in that sort of activity when there is no 'public accountability'; where it exists, they are less inclined to do so. Maybe over time they will internalize public acocuntability, and the ability to act in a civil fashion won't require a constant watch of their behavior.

jeffrey

Subject: Re: Violence in Bodega on Classon, Near Sterling

Darn kids these days. Where are the parents...

Caroline Giuliani ARRESTED: Rudy Giuliani's Daughter Caught Shoplifting
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/04/caroline-giuliani-arreste_n_671013.html

The 20-year-old was allegedly caught stealing about $100 worth of makeup from a Sephora store on 86th Street and Lexington Avenue around 2 pm.

karl the druid

whynot_31

I expected more from him/her. ....between this and Kerik

hamilton

.


if her dad stopped using her cosmetics she wouldn't have to shoplift.

i wonder if he intends to run for mayor on the cross-dressers line.

whynot_31

Clearly as a former Federal Prosecuter, he did not instill in her an appreciation for law and order.

From what I've heard, they always practice a Live and Let Live style of parenting.

Damn hippie.

P.S. We might be a little off topic.

karl the druid

unmoored this topic is now

MOD

The Sephora people found out she was his daughter they tried to pull the charges, but the cops were already on the scene writing the her up, so they couldn't

whynot_31

Perhaps the police would have been ok with amending the charges to instead arrest Rudy?

capt. planet

OK, yes, it is possible to transcend the negative environment that many young people find themselves in.
But these kids were clearly not able to do so, at least, not yet.
What can we do as community members to get them back on track? Coddle tem with excuses for fheir failures? Force them to do "hard time"? Involve them in local groups with positive role models? Get out of Dodge and move upstate? (and I'm not talking Sing Sing).

catwalkertexasranger

So is stealing from Sephora a gateway crime? should the deli owner be afraid that Rudy's daughter will show up and give him a skull pounding?Capt the best way to teach the yoot a lesson is to drop the cash register they tried to steal on their big toe from about a 10 ft ladder..I am not sure if it will work but at least it will be easier to ID the trash by their limp..or the police could spray paint a neon x on their head so as to help everybody avoid them..we have to be innovative all this talking to them is not getting through maybe we can send them to summer camp so that they can feel lots of love that they are not getting..That's it the kid who crushed the deli guys face didn't get a hug in the morning before he was off to school ..they were stealing the chips because his mom forgot to pack them in his lunch box

independent mind

MHA wrote: Puply,
In an earlier exchange between you and Krowonhill you describe her desire to know what is going on in the mind of the attackers as wishful thinking, and I will concede to you that such is the case -- objectively. She wishes to know; I wish to know as well. I think we ought not to lose sight of what motivates people to act in the way that they do. This doesn't mean we are approving of their behavior, but, much like the empirical scientist who wishes to determine the hows and whys of things, I think an indulging in social science is equally valid. We need to understand motivation.

Years ago, I was mugged. To this day I can recall the day, the time, the year, and even the temperature when it happened. Time to time I think about the crime. I think about the fact that I was mugged, and beaten -- for NICKELS; spare change. Sparing you the minutiae of what occurred, the last thing my assailants said to me was, "Gimmee your nickels. Gimmee your nickels!" For years I could not understand why someone would punch me repeatedly in the face for spare change. For nickels. My own sense of outrage blinded me to the only truth that finally gave me comfort. It was all a quest for POWER. The rationale was money, but it was all about power. That's all it ever is, I think; a means to that end. And after figuring that out, I realized how powerless so many of the kids I lived around then were. There families were seriously messed up. And here I would come skipping along, school books in hand, reading -- for the fun of it. Dude, imagine a fourteen year old Black kid with a copy of the New Yorker magazine in his back pocket. That was me. In Brownsville.

A great deal of crime starts out of a sense of powerlessness, and I think that those kids were like the maddening crowd that gathered in one of my favorite books, 'Lord of the Flies', to kill the protagonist. Those who have something substantial in either title, person, or pocket, are always vulnerable to those who perceive themselves as powerless, and do not want to be reminded that there are people out there that THEY think are better than themselves. So, when the moment provides opportunity, they strike, justifying their actions by claiming they were the wronged.

As a person of Caribbean heritage, there are countless stories of Caribbean immigrants returning to their homeland in seek of retirement, or to gain the satisfaction of giving back to their native soil. Once there, many of them are accosted in the most awful of ways, besides being robbed. It is as if having returned 'from foreign' as we would say, warrants that the criminal dish out an added malfeasance to the indignity of being robbed. When these crimes are described, you can't help but think that the perpetrator acted out of some sort of fury at their victim. That their actions were as a result of a need for power. I am no social scientist, but I will wager some research has been done on this. My only reference right now is Mos Def's "How You Got":

MHA, all I can say, is I hope you publish this stuff, it is absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much.

holla peno

I am pretty sure that in 10 minutes I know more about MHA than I know about my girlfriend.

mha

Holla Peno I laughed for at least 15 minutes after I read this; 15 minutes! Maybe your girlfriend should read more.