7/17/2010: Someone Shot Near Corner of Franklin Park

king without a crown

Mougar wrote: [quote=King without a crown]I'm sure theres more to the mouse's story and the Police are still allowed to conduct a Stop Question and Frisk. Maybe she fit the description of a suspect, maybe she just stopped to interact with a drug dealer. Who knows? Maybe he/she can clarify?

Police are allowed to stop and question someone if they have a reasonable suspicion that person has or is about to commit a crime. They're also allowed to frisk if they have a reasonable suspicion the person possesses a weapon and is dangerous.

Taking the story at face value, since citymouse says she was in skintight running gear the police could not have had a reasonable suspicion she was concealing a weapon. I have a reasonable suspicion they just wanted to grope her.

And threatening ticket for not carrying ID is a totally dick move. The NY state Stop and Identify Statute provides that a cop "may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his conduct". There is no requirement to produce a state issued ID, and for that matter there isn't even a penalty for failing to comply.
I agree, thats why I think theres more to the story maybe the mouse can clarify

stacey

Mougar wrote: [quote=King without a crown]I'm sure theres more to the mouse's story and the Police are still allowed to conduct a Stop Question and Frisk. Maybe she fit the description of a suspect, maybe she just stopped to interact with a drug dealer. Who knows? Maybe he/she can clarify?

Police are allowed to stop and question someone if they have a reasonable suspicion that person has or is about to commit a crime. They're also allowed to frisk if they have a reasonable suspicion the person possesses a weapon and is dangerous.

Taking the story at face value, since citymouse says she was in skintight running gear the police could not have had a reasonable suspicion she was concealing a weapon. I have a reasonable suspicion they just wanted to grope her.

And threatening ticket for not carrying ID is a totally dick move. The NY state Stop and Identify Statute provides that a cop "may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his conduct". There is no requirement to produce a state issued ID, and for that matter there isn't even a penalty for failing to comply.

Weren't they given much more leeway under the Patriot Act?

krowonhill

An individual's willingness to believe in police misconduct is going to come down to her or his personal experience with cops, i.e. have you been mistreated by them? (Unless, of course, that individual has sought out certain videos on YouTube.) But let's acknowledge that our own experience is anecdotal, and reflects a combination of our race, sex, class, and the neighborhood we grew up in. I'm honestly envious if you have never seen or experienced flagrant police misconduct, since it must make the world feel like a hell of a safer place. Which is all to say that when citymouse says she was illegitimately stopped and frisked by the cops, I believe her.

cool the kid

krowonhill wrote: Which is all to say that when citymouse says she was illegitimately stopped and frisked by the cops, I believe her.

I think it's pretty silly to suggest otherwise, but we all know KWAC's rabid bias.

Still though her story really brings no value to a thread that's essentially about cops doing their job well.

eastbloc

I suppose (hope?) KWAC's too young to recall the 'bad old days' of the 77th, so for all of our edification:

http://nymag.com/news/features/50431/index1.html

king without a crown

Having a different perspective doesn't neccesarily mean having a "rabid bias". I guess anyone on here who shares a different view then the mainstream must be labelled and villacised.

carnivore

King without a crown wrote: villacised

Surely you are just baiting here, right?

king without a crown

I was trying to find the word, please feel free to correct me

king without a crown

O yeah villafied

king without a crown

I think I've been in "da hood" too long!

eastbloc

King without a crown wrote: O yeah villafied

vil·la·fy   [vil-lah-fahy] Show IPA verb, -fied, -fy·ing.
–verb (used with object)

to improve (a neighborhood) by gentrification, specifically the construction of villas.

jeffrey

Ha, thank you for that eastbloc. =D>

chekhovian

I guess the 103 (and counting) replies to this incident suggest some outrage, at the least, over there being an afternoon shooting at this location. Compare this thread to the 1005 Eastern Parkway shooting.

Still, we're talking about a shooting in the middle of the afternoon on a busy intersection surrounded by 'gentrified' blocks. Anybody else getting the feeling that "the bad old days" aren't exactly behind us? Yeah, we got coffee shops, but that's not taking care of the crime element.

cool the kid

King without a crown wrote: Having a different perspective doesn't neccesarily mean having a "rabid bias". I guess anyone on here who shares a different view then the mainstream must be labelled and villacised.

Hey I agree with you in here for the most part, but it's just funny that while you want people to afford the police the benefit of the doubt you NEVER do the same for the people they police. Some chick gets groped by police, somehow it's her fault, but police have due cause to do whatever they want. W/e

mha

Eastbloc I read that New York Magazine article you referred to. It's chilling. No doubt it partially inspired the recent movie 'Brooklyn's Finest'.

I think the violence out here is the result of youthful exuberence and market pressures. I think the reason that two young men would squabble over corners to push their product is because they are running out of corners, so in that sense, one of the solutions to the violent crime problem is more gentrification.

It's akin to a fishtank with the water slowly draining out. When the fish lose their volume to swim in, the most turbulent time for them is right near the end where they thrash about in too little water.

Or maybe not. I now see the gentry buying product, so the problem may even get worse.

eastbloc

You mean you see white people buying product. White people != gentry.

Gentry don't do their shopping in the streets. The smart dealers will cater to them and move off the streets too, and they'll make a killing without having to do any shooting or standing around on corners like mopes.

chekhovian

MHA - I understand your analogy, but I politely disagree with the water draining out and the fish thrashing about.

My observation is that gentrification and crime are running on separate tracks entirely and one is not going to change the other unless there's an unforeseen uptick in crime that curbs the gentrification. Going the other way, I don't think an accelerated gentrification movement (what else could you call the Jewish Hospital and surrounding buildings) will be enough to weed out the crime.

mha

Chekovian - I guess I have my opinion because of something I observed. A nearby building was purchased by a realtor, gussied up on the outside, and cut up in the inside. The outside staircase was a well known hangout spot for a couple of the nearby weed sellers who used the steps as a nexus for conference, meals, and the occasional bathroom break. The realtor installed a sturdy ornamental fence around the garbage cans, and put an interesting fencing on the sides of the staircase that prevent anyone from sitting on the side. The weed sellers don't convene there as much as they used to as result. It's weird. It is as if the gentry just pushed them away with their sheer presence. It's amazing actually.

My theory is that if there are less people in the neighborhood to sell product to, then the proprietor will have to move on to richer waters.

mr. henry

Subject: S.O.S. Crown Heights Shooting Response 7 pm on 7/28/10

This upcoming Wednesday at 7pm, Save Our Streets Crown Heights (S.O.S.) will hold a shooting response at Park Place & Franklin. This will be a chance for the community to take ownership in demonstrating that shootings and killings are not acceptable in Crown Heights, and that too many residents have suffered the loss of loved ones. Here are the details:

Location: Park Place and Franklin
Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010
Time: 7:00 pm

catwalkertexasranger

Mr.Henry thanks for your post and the information about concerned citizens. I don't want anybody getting shot, killed or injured while the drug and gang game plays along with everyday life. I think the police should stop the sale of alcohol,tobacco and drug related paraphernalia to underage area kids. I am unsure if this will work but once the area businesses have to cater to 99.5% legal business model things may change. I believe that the deli on the corner of Franklin and Lincoln and the other on Franklin and St Johns sell the majority of their cigarettes as single units(@loosies) this is one reason that the crack whore on the corner of Lincoln and Franklin is always there..depending on the coins she is given she buys a beer and a smoke consumes both and drops the can and butt where she stands. If kids had a harder time buying smokes and acting like an adult at 3am maybe they would also have just a little harder time getting shot and bleeding like the adults on the same street. We have to start someplace and stop and frisk just doesn't work for anybody. Right now a kid needs 2 dollars and can enjoy a beer and a smoke on my block thanks to the super scum retailers on the same street. As is said over and over about many issues..just enforce the laws we already have. Rather than arrest 20 sixteen year olds, let just slam one clerk or maybe 2 and send a strong message to area business. Also the owner of the closed cafe on Lincoln across from Fishers should be compelled to repair his roll up door and eliminate the stash hole that is currently there.

king without a crown

^^^^^^^ ??????????? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ????????? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

mha

KWAC, what does that mean?

king without a crown

It means, I have no clue what was written above me

mha

Has anyone heard anything about the kid who got shot -- how he is doing and all? Or the shooter?

mha

I heard through a fourth/fifth party that the kid who got shot was shot in the femur, and is likely to lose his leg; Jesus.

whynot_31

http://www.bridgestar.org/MyCareerCenter/PositionDetails.aspx?jobId=7306

mha

Well, it's confirmed, the young man who was shot unfortunately had his leg amputated.

There was a convening of people organized by an entity called S.O.S. (Save Our Streets) and his condition was discussed there.

I don't know if the shooting made the news. Is anyone aware if it did?

whynot_31

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=brooklyn+shot+july+17+2010&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

It doesn't look like it. The only coverage of it I see is some webpage's robot linked to this link.

...lots of folks shot in Brooklyn on that day, including a 9 year old.
It's tough to compete with a 9 year old for press....

homeowner

Well it appears that the tonier neighborhoods are starting to catch the epidemic of violent crime we've been seeing here in the hood. First a man gets beaten and stabbed to death in Park Slope and now there is a daylight shooting in Brooklyn Heights (and not at the movie theater either)!

Are the scum gentrifying as well?

carnivore

MHA wrote: Chekovian - I guess I have my opinion because of something I observed. A nearby building was purchased by a realtor, gussied up on the outside, and cut up in the inside. The outside staircase was a well known hangout spot for a couple of the nearby weed sellers who used the steps as a nexus for conference, meals, and the occasional bathroom break. The realtor installed a sturdy ornamental fence around the garbage cans, and put an interesting fencing on the sides of the staircase that prevent anyone from sitting on the side. The weed sellers don't convene there as much as they used to as result. It's weird. It is as if the gentry just pushed them away with their sheer presence. It's amazing actually.

My theory is that if there are less people in the neighborhood to sell product to, then the proprietor will have to move on to richer waters.

I don't think the newer residents use less "product" than those who have been here for longer. If anything, the difference (as eastbloc said above) is that the newer residents have more discreet ways of procuring said "product."