Petition against co-locating another school at PS9

old time brooklyn

The DOE is planning to screw over this community. If you have any plans of sending your children to school in this neighborhood, get informed and take action.

Read about it here:

http://ps9pta.blogspot.com/

Sign petition:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/protectps9/

Mod Note: Merged the 2 PS9 threads into one topic

pnlop

Please sign this petition to help protect PS9 in Prospect Heights.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/protectps9/

Thank you!

Best,

Penelope

Here are other ways you can help:

Actions You Can Take to Protect PS 9 from

DOE’s Plan to Relocate a Charter Middle School in PS9’s Building

• Begin with a review of DOE.’s Educational Impact Statement (EIS) and Building Use Plan at http://schools.nyc.gov/AboutUs/leadership/PEP/publicnotice/2010-2011/Feb32011Proposals (see last item in Brooklyn)

1. Write and call the DOE. Find a sample letter at http://ps9pta.blogspot.com . Please sign or say in your own words why relocating Brooklyn East Collegiate Charter School to 80 Underhill Avenue is harmful to P.S. 9 and the community. Submit written comments via emails to [email protected] or leave oral comments at 212-374-0208. You may also send email to:

Chancellor Cathleen [email protected]

Dep. Chancellor Marc Sternberg [email protected]

Dep. Mayor Dennis [email protected]

Letters to Chancellor Black and Dep. Chancellor Sternberg can also be mailed to:

NYC Department of Education, Tweed Courthouse, 52 Chambers St., New York NY 10007.

2. Please forward a copy of emails to [email protected]. The PTO wants to keep count and summarize comments.

3. Sign online petition at: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/protectps9/

4. Attend the public hearing on MONDAY January 24 at 6:00 p.m. at P.S. 9 / M.S. 571, 80 Underhill Avenue, Brooklyn. The hearing is your chance to oppose the DOE's wrongheaded plan to move a new school into our building. We need many, many parents to attend RAIN, SHINE OR SNOW. Please buy a t-shirt to wear to show your support for PS9. Order an "I Love PS9" t-shirt—short sleeve $10, long sleeve $15, hoodies $25—by sending an email to [email protected].

5. Volunteer to hand out fliers at school or in the neighborhood. Please contact Penelope Mahot, 917-476-6870. Other jobs available, too.

6. Visit the PTO Blog at http://ps9pta.blogspot.com for the latest updates.

stacey

I plan on attending the meeting on Monday but I have a quick question - do you know if PS 9 has recommended or suggested that this new JHS go into the old District 13 building? Is the school opposed to a JHS altogether in the building or do they want the division of services (i.e., lunchroom, gym, library, etc.) to be divided fairly among the two schools.

Thanks.

pnlop

PS9 is opposed to any school coming in. We currently have a middle school, MS571, which will be phased out over the next 3 years. PS9 has a growing population, and is doing well. Our children are already having time constraints with the shared building. My daughter for instance has lunch at 10:30am and most of the time has gym in the auditorium where they have the children run up and down the aisles which is a real safety issue, let alone getting the real physical education they deserve. This new Charter school will be bigger than the current middle school, which will mean PS9 will have even less time. Once a new school moves in, it's impossible to get them out. Bottom line, we need the space!

I hope this answers your question. As far as the D13 building, I don't know what the deal is. I think there is a HS in it right now, and it also might not be big enough for the Charter School's needs. They want to be a 5-9th grade school.

stacey

Thanks I will be honest with you, I am a little torn on this one since there really is not many options for JHS in District 13. Thanks for posting this.

pnlop

If you want to be more informed about the Brooklyn East Collegiate Charter, here is a link to their philosophy:

http://www.uncommonschools.org/bec/aboutUs/programAndValues.html

I have spoken to a few parents who have toured that school. It is almost run like the military. The children have to walk a white line in complete silence and are called upon by snapped fingers. This school is geared towards children that come from very poor families, mostly from projects. They serve a very specific group of children who might do much better with a more disciplined approach. This is not PS9's philosophy and it will be very unlikely that PS9 parents would apply to put their children there.

stacey

Thanks I will check out the link and make sure that I attend the meeting. Do you think PS 9 could have some influence on the way they run their school? (Just bear in mind that there was a time when no one wanted their child to go to PS 9 either.)

pnlop

No, there would be no connection in any way. They are a charter school with their way of doing things and probably the money to back it up. It's not that we are against that school as a school, it's just that it's not the right fit, plus PS9 will need the space to grow.

See you at the meeting.

xlizellx

I think it's great to fight for what you think your kids deserve. Seriously.

But

- Lunch at 10:30am is not uncommon in public schools. Most elementary schools have it.

- Most schools have less than the required gym time (120 minutes per week) - so teachers are now part of the Move to Improve program in K-3 classes which is led by the DOE and the DOH. It's a structured movement in the classroom program.

- As for the auditorium as a gym issue -- do you have documentation that this is unsafe? Many schools don't have a gym at all, and are required to use hallways, gyms, classrooms, etc. Has there been an increase of injuries in the gym periods since using this area for physical movement?

Good luck, though. Too many parent groups wait around and then complain afterwards -- it's just tough, because where else are the junior high kids to go?

pnlop

I agree that it is a city wide problem, but right now we have to fight for our own school and demand change that way.

brownie

Would you have an issue sharing space with roundly popular Community Roots? They were also founded with the intent of serving low-income kids from the projects, but take a progressive approach, and a result have attracted families across the socio-economic spectrum. And as is the case with MOST charter schools they don't have deep pockets, and in fact are funded at a lower level than district public schools.

medusa

The main issue is having to share space in the common areas (gym, cafeteria, library). I'd have issues about sharing those spaces with anyone. The second issue is about the wisdom of having middle schoolers mixed in with elementary school kids. It's not what I'd prefer.

I'm not sure, brownie, what you're getting at with your question about Community Roots. Could you elaborate?

pnlop

Our main concern is space. PS9 is growing to accomodate the neighborhood's needs, and very soon the school will be over crowded. This is the main issue. Even if it were a middle school that had similar values to PS9, it doesn't change the space factor. Yes I do understand that a lot of other schools are in a worse situation than PS9 as far as space is concerned, but we have an opportunity here for the school to grow without those constraints. Why can't the DOE see that PS9 is on the right track and give a larger elementary school to serve the district. There aren't enough good schools in D13 as it is, and people are sending their kids to D15.

Those of you who wold like to continue the conversation are welcome to come this Friday January 14th at 7:45am at PS9 for a community meeting about the subject. It is easy to read information but it is better to get it straight from the source.

brownie

Community Roots is expanding to become a K-8 and thus may be relocated within a school in District 13. Many, many schools are co-located in NYC, charter or otherwise just as most people don't all live in single-family homes The DOE has very specific numbers about the space availability in each school. They also have enrollment projections. I think this is where PS 9's argument must look as sharing amenities is commonplace in this city--you must prove the city's numbers are just WRONG. And the argument that you want to let in kids from out of zone just flies in the face of our current school zoning system & most importantly how school budgets are allocated. That argument begs another question, IMHO.

medusa

Community Roots is great, don't get me wrong. They're successful, and growing and I hope for the best for them. They're already located in District 13 and have a lottery system of admission that gives preference to district 13 families. That being said, they only have 2 kindergartens per year, so they're a great option for some 44 kids per year.

PS 9 has 6 kindergarten classes this year and could easily have more next year as there has been a baby boom in the neighborhood. Why should Community Root's growth be embraced and PS 9's thwarted?

We're a growing school experiencing some success (finally! after years of having locals lie to send their kids to 321, finagle to send them to 261 or opt out for private school),it should be encouraged.

old time brooklyn

To borrow the slogan from the Atlantic Yards disaster, you're either developing Brooklyn or you're destroying it. And just like our area didn't need Atlantic Yards, this community doesn't need a charter school in this space. It's invading the realm of an already growing school built up by its staff, by its parents, its students and by this community. To stunt the growth of this school, to hinder its development makes no sense. Just like Atlantic Yards made no sense for this community.

brownie

As far as the DOE is concerned, this is about numbers, not educational approach. They have a history of bungling projections--you currently have lots of space after losing MS 571, so you need to argue that the projections for the PS 9 zone are off.

old time brooklyn

No Raja, No ReRun, no rent:

http://www.news12.com/articleDetail.jsp?articleId=271108&position=1&news_typ e=news

whynot_31

no cable, no sign in news 12, no video

pnlop

Not to promote this, but i don't have cable, but i was able to see it when I was on someone else's open wifi connection. Try that.

thelambchop

not a ps9 parent (yet) but i think the strongest arguments are:

(1) the DOE's formulas for projecting space needs and allocating space are faulty, at a minimum because they don't take into account the frictions of three schools functioning in the same space. as you all know, the library is the best and most impactful example of this!

(2) even if not faulty, the formulas have been incorrectly applied here, in part because the projections rely on admissions staying roughly the same when the neighborhood demographics say otherwise and also because they are premised on ps9's 5th grade population transferring to the new charter school when there is no preference for ps9 specifically and no reason to believe that ps9 kids will be disproportionately interested in the school.

(3) setting aside DOE policy, there is no principled reason that an elementary school should be limited strictly to zoned students so that a lottery school with no specific preference for zoned kids and with a mission that does not seem particularly targeted to the demographic of this zone, can move in;

(4) brooklyn east collegiate, if it is as successful as people are promising it is going to be, is going to want to expand to elementary. and it has a mission that is premised on being able to control the space around it ("including a strictly enforced school dress code") why not move it into a space where it, too, can have a chance to spread its wings and truly test the merits of its approach??

i do think that some more research on other co-locations with middle schools would be helpful. where have they worked, and where not??

lastly, i think ps 9's parents ought to consider a good cop/bad cop approach. that is, there need to be people to pound the tables, but has anyone come up with suggestions for a compromise, if it gets to that?

old time brooklyn

You make some good points. First, stats can be made to say anything. And from the principal's own mouth parents have heard that the DOE has held back her enrollment numbers. Now they're saying the school is under-enrolled. This is how these things are done. See the DOE's comments in today's Daily News story.

But the applicants for Pred-K are available and it's more than 5x what is allowed in. Kindergarten too. This neighborhood is growing. That's obvious to anyone who buys or rents property or tries to get a table at a restaurant around here.

Also, another point you make: this charter school is going to want to grow. If you're paranoid, you'd see that what eventually will happen is they will oust PS9. They're already taking PS9's 5th grade class -- what makes anyone think they'll stop there? Maybe the DOE sees this neighborhood as at-need still, low income. But obviously that's changing quickly.

Again, it reminds me of Atlantic Yards. The city called it an area of blight because it suited what they wanted to do with it. To everyone here, it wasn't, it was already a viable neighborhood. This seems to be the same deal. Except instead of a land grab, it's a school grab.

stacey

i do think that some more research on other co-locations with middle schools would be helpful. where have they worked, and where not??

My son's middle school (Park Place Community Middle School) shared his school with a District 75 school. My sons middle school's enrollment was only about 190-200 kids. It seemed to work out fine for him. But with the new JHS, we are talking about 1.5 more than that which I think would definitely overtax the school and its facilities.

evan

There was a chance that the charter I currently work in would be moved to the PS 9 building, which I was rather excited about as I live on the block. Alas, it would have meant changing districts so it was decided against.

Knowing the Uncommon Network and PS 9, there will be a huge vision gap and very little alignment of the culture of the two schools. There is also a significant difference in the populations the two schools aim to serve. The immediate neighborhood around PS 9 is very different than the neighborhoods Uncommon schools are typically located in, but the increasingly white and affluent parents of Prospect Heights will not want to send their children to Brooklyn East and the school will pull from other areas of District 13 where good options don't exist.

pnlop

As of Friday, PS9 will add to the proposal that it wants to become a k-8. There is a lot of support from parents and there is a real need for middle schools in D13. This would be the best option for PS9.

thelambchop

Yes! That is a proposal that makes a lot of sense. But tell me, would that change the allocation of the core spaces (cafeteria, gym, library)? Or would it just mean that allocation of them is decided by PS9 administration rather than the DOE and the two schools together? I'm just curious. Either way, I would support this proposal, since it seems like the DOE has simply closed itself off from considering expansion of PS9 as a stand-alone elementary.

Has the PS9 PTO or administration has had conversations with the parents/administration of the charter school? What do they think about this move? Do they just want space, period, and they don't care where? Because it seems to me like their mission really does rely on tight control of environment, which they wouldn't have if co-located. And if they already start at 5th grade, does that signal a desire to expand to K-4 at some point as well?

Speaking of which, what is the deal with the charter school "taking" PS9's 5th grade, as currently envisioned? How would that even work, when NYC middle schools are premised on starting at 6th grade, but PS9 students wouldn't automatically be admitted? Where would the PS9 students be expected to go if they didn't get in to the charter school, or they didn't want to go there?

stacey

Giving this a bump to remind all about the meeting this evening.

old time brooklyn

It was wild.

brownie

What happened at the meeting last night?

mac1

http://prospectheights.patch.com/articles/tensions-flare-as-parents-speak-out-against-charter-school

vandylady

The meeting last night was very contentious on all sides but we must fight to make PS 9 K-8. This would create a functioning middle school that would serve current PS 9 elementary school students as well as students who would have attended MS 571. A rising tide lifts all boats and zoned students who would have been destined to MS 571 would now have a functioning school to attend.

The NEST school in Manhattan was able to successfully block the Ross Charter School from taking space in their school. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/15/nyregion/15charter.html

The charter school (Brooklyn East Collegiate) is part of a larger association of charter schools (Uncommon Schools) and has tremendous financial backing that should enable them to find or even build their own space. At the meeting, Uncommon Schools staff passed out free tee-shirts and bottled water to their students and their families, while PS 9 families had to buy tee-shirts to wear. MS 571 had only a small group (with no tee-shirts) to represent their school.

The next meeting is scheduled for 6 p.m. on Feb. 3 at Brooklyn Technical High School, at 29 Fort Greene Place. The Panel for Education Policy, which oversees New York City schools, will vote to decide the matter. Please consider attending.