another shooting -Grand ave and St. Marks Feb 7, 2010 @ 9:48AM

whynot_31

http://gothamist.com/map/

Shooting

Grand Ave & St Marks Ave

Brooklyn, NY

2/7/2011 9:48 p.m.

nofay

With no disrespect intended, why do you guys post every shooting or gunshot?

whynot_31

I post them largely to draw attention to the work of SOS, an organization I participate in:

http://soscrownheights.blogspot.com/

....people also create threads about the gunshots because they are freaked out by them, or want to know what happened.

[My secret agenda is as follows:

-By drawing attention to neighborhood shootings and the organization's effort to combat the senseless retaliatory violence, I would like to cause a light bulb to light up in the minds of rich people, hey, this would be a good place to donate money.

-Perhaps needless to say, I believe SOS does very needed work and believe that their successes will grow with more involvement from the community. ...most folks are not rich afterall.]

Please note, I am not an employee of SOS, nor am I authorized to type on their behalf.

Readers should consult their website for details.

nofay

Ok seen. If I posted a thread for every gunshot I heard, well it would be a whole lot of threads...

whynot_31

I just post the ones in the 77th pct.

....I needed a hobby, and imagine it really sucks to be shot, or have someone you know shot.

dailyheights

Interesting question. We all agree there should be no gunshots. Yet it is common. So by posting every incident, maybe it will eventually be seen again as abnormal and worthy of attention. Kind of like how the smoking ban stigmatizes cigarettes (so that at minimum it improves quality of life, and at best it saves lives).

nofay

Cant save anyones life after they already have been shot...

sterio5

Nofay stop being silly..

someone update us with whatever info u get.. This might be related to the crime from yesterday.

nofay

sterio5 said:

Nofay stop being silly..

someone update us with whatever info u get.. This might be related to the crime from yesterday.

Silly? How? Unless someone personally witnessed the incidences and went directly to the police, posting it on a blog after the fact is not going to help anything except possibly scaring certain people from moving to the area. That being said, keep up the good work!

nofay

Also, most of the shootings are between young hoodrats who just dont give a fuck. About anything.

eastbloc

Nofay, I thought black people always supported each other and lived harmoniously regardless of socioeconomic status? Are you developing a nuanced worldview or just furthering your commitment to hypocrisy?

snowboardqueen

I for one would personally like to be updated about any and every gunshot within the community and surrounding community.

I am not used to hearing any gunshots period and I want to be aware when and where there is gun activity, because a bullet has no name on it and will hit anyone who crosses into its trajectory.

Gun activity is scary plain and simple and I will never find it something that I can ever get used to.

Living in CH's, I've heard gun activity for the first time.., and it has not been a pleasant experience.

whynot_31

SOS only has the resources to do responses to shootings in which someone was actually hit by the gunfire. I try to post only incidents in which someone was hit, and then post again when the Shooting Response is to occur.

Although I wish the organization could do more, and the effects of its work would be more immediate, (i.e. people would stop shooting each other), I find the creation of SOS to be a welcome response to the area's gun violence, and believe that the period just after violence can be crucial to reaching out to the families and friends of the person shot.

But -again, as a mere member- I do not speak for the organization. I'll instead cut and paste from their website (http://soscrownheights.blogspot.com/):

S.O.S. Crown Heights

ABOUT US

Save Our Streets Crown Heights (S.O.S.) is a community-based effort to end gun violence in our neighborhood. S.O.S. works closely with local organizations, neighborhood churches and pastors, community residents and the individuals most likely to commit a shooting. S.O.S. Crown Heights provides immediate intervention whenever a shooting occurs in the neighborhood, reaching out to the victim, friends, and family to ensure that a retaliatory shooting does not take place. S.O.S. Crown Heights works closely with neighborhood leaders and businesses to promote a visible and public message against gun violence. The goal is to end the spread of violence by encouraging local voices to articulate that shooting is an unacceptable behavior.

Here's a recent article on SOS Crown Heights that appeared in the NYT:

"Gunfire will no longer be met with silence"

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/11/nyregion/11metjournal.html?_r=1

.

.

.

Similar organizations exist in other areas of NYC heavily affected by gun violence, such as East New York's SNUG program or Man Up.

http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/new-york-amsterdam-news/mi_8153/is_20071122/brooklyn/ai_n50692279/

In my experience, the membership of the organization is composed of people heavily involved in working with Crown Heights youth: pastors, basketball coaches, some politicians, etc.

Additional people are members to show their concern, or to gain some comfort in knowing that others are trying to do something.

Everyone is welcome.

Those employed by the organization as Violence Interrupters have often lived similar lives to the youth they are trying to reach, and I'm pretty sure they do the work to prevent others from the same consequences (jail, prison, dead friends, etc.)

MOD

eastbloc said:

Nofay, I thought black people always supported each other and lived harmoniously regardless of socioeconomic status? Are you developing a nuanced worldview or just furthering your commitment to hypocrisy?

catwalkertexasranger

nofay your perspective is very illuminating. People post shootings,stabbings, murders and muggings because they don't except it as a community norm. Each time an iphone grabber is caught or some asshole who forces women to take off their panties the neighborhood is a better place. Each time somebody looks out the window when hearing screaming or shooting there is a chance for the human shit responsible to be arrested. I understand that there are lots of people who hear gunshots or people crying out for help and just turn up the TV..I just don't want them living next to me

nofay

eastbloc said:

Nofay, I thought black people always supported each other and lived harmoniously regardless of socioeconomic status? Are you developing a nuanced worldview or just furthering your commitment to hypocrisy?

Why do you have to bring Black people into this? Nobody mentioned race until you did. Shame.

catwalkertexasranger

nofay..while I partially agree w you..I think your veiled BS about hoodrats and people w tropical blood can and should be taken as you mean it. Most of the things you posted are completely wrong. Yes without directly witnessing something you can make a difference. And yes another persons life can be saved even after one person is shot. Guns are very well-built machines for the most part and their staying power can last decades. I gun purchased in 1950 for a 50 bucks can keep killing for another 100 years. So what you see as silly..like posting a couple of hoodrats beating the fuck out of somebody for their phone,purse or panties may save somebody else. And I totally agree w you that most hoodrats feel completely useless and commit crime without fear of consequenses..the sooner all people regardless of color who don't give a fuck are caged like the animals they are the clean up continues

nofay

Tropical blood? Huh? Hoodrat does not imply a race or colour except to a racist...

I was saying that a community group or these posts is not going to make them stop. Somebody witnessing the actual crime and taking action is one thing, but an internet post long after the fact is not going to help.

stacey

nofay said:

I was saying that a community group or these posts is not going to make them stop. Somebody witnessing the actual crime and taking action is one thing, but an internet post long after the fact is not going to help.

Not many people actually "witness" the crime. Many people have made a difference without having to "witness" a crime. Things of this nature also cause people to create neighborhood watch groups, makes them aware of their neighbors, etc. If you let the neighborhood thugs know you are not going to take it - they tend to move on to easier pasture. Also if there is a pattern (i.e., majority of shooting happening in a specific location) I can then direct my loved ones to avoid walking that way.

I don't think posting things such as shootings etc. is any different than shooting the breeze with your neighbor on the stoop or chit chatting with the guys who hang out in the bodegas.

This site is more like that one gossip neighbor (that everyone had) who knew everyone's business and put it all out there on blast.

whynot_31

I've had cops tell me that they occasionally find the info on this board to be very useful. Other times, they just find the posts to be annoying or entertaining.

In that respect, I'm sorta like a cop?

catwalkertexasranger

the fact that there are shootings with regularity is tragic. The fact that nofray and other wonder why it is important to be aware or feel helpless as to the solution is equally tragic

nofay

I do not feel helpless. As for awareness, people hear the shots and everyone knows there are nuff shots around these parts. I was trying to explain that these little ingrates do not care about community watches or groups or internet postings or even cops. They do however respect OGs of the hood who aint having it on their block. This is why this never happens on my block just on surrounding blocks. I am not dissing your shooting posts just found them to be odd and curious. Anyone could catch a stray at any time as nobody knows exactly when this stuff will pop off so there is only but so prepared one could be.

whynot_31

nofray wrote: I am not dissing your shooting posts just found them to be odd and curious.

nofray wrote: Unless someone personally witnessed the incidences and went directly to the police, posting it on a blog after the fact is not going to help anything except possibly scaring certain people from moving to the area. That being said, keep up the good work!

nofray doesn't contradict himself or herself, s/he is just misunderstood. ?!

Folks can check the murders for their blocks on this site. http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map

Nofray, I'm glad yours is doing well.

Remember:

No one deserves to be shot, but there are lots of things "we" can do to reduce the risk of it happening to "us".

nofay

Whynot was jokes. Damn.

catwalkertexasranger

notary there is a curious point you make w dangerous presumption . The criminal hierarchy that you think exists does not. The OGs have no control. Half of the interlopers that sell small amounts of blow and weed at area bars do so and then leave. The OG infrastructure is crumbling..lots of area residents are on the phone or at the police station after an incident only to find out later that there is a bizarre community standard of no Snitchin. Guys driving from Brownsville, E.NY Sunset Park,or Park Slope don't avoid some big,bad OG's block or click on the safety to avoid angering the neighborhood heavy. That was then and this is now..people with disposable income from in and out of the community..millions of dollars in revenue from new small businesses in the area..Franklin Ave alone is dumping into the tax coffers.Pulp&Bean, soon to be opened new and improved Fisher's,Pizza spot, remodeled laundries, Dutch Boy,US Indian,Mexican food w liquor licenses and boutique grocers as well. If asked I am sure that even the grubistest Bodega are doing better. The drug/gangster cash economy is being squeezed out. The once unwanted corner where cash and drugs could be exchanged in a dance of two are getting more and more crowded. Young white girls looking at their ifone for directions to Franklin Park or the wine bar even farther up the road where not imaginable 5 years ago. As the wave of real business takes over from surreal business of selling drugs and stupidity OG will find him or herself in a minority..not of color but economy. As soon as I stop typing you will tell me a Robin-in-the hood story about a drug dealer that kept community faith by reinvesting drugs profits into something good for the area. Soon there will nobody to take the money. The new residents want dialog not disaster and death. If you see anything by all these crime posts that there is a large vocal,active group of citizens that dismiss crime as a way of life..long term we shall see if crime will win over commerce but my money is on bars,pizza,jobs and strollers being the norm in 5 years versus the blunt wrappers and people who answer to a street name.

nofay

Yes. When there was a car stolen on my block it turned out to be someone from queens who snuck in in the middle of the night. You cant stop it and my saying this is not helplessness. BTW have you ever heard about things called paragraphs and punctuation? My eyes are bleeding.

snowboardqueen

nofay - I can only speak from my personal perspective, but it is surreal to think less more hear gun shots in a neighborhood.

If someone posts about a shooting, it is because it is not the norm for that person. Nothing in their experience has prepared them to hear gun shots in a neighborhood.

To me it's mind boggling that anyone can get used to hearing gunshots in a neighborhood. it's outside my realm of experience, to think people have become immune to hearing gunshots in a neighborhood.

If you did not grow up in a place where hearing gunshots is a common occurrence, it seems like something out of a bad, bad movie. You have no point of reference to wrap your mind around the experience.

I did not grow up in a place where you heard gunshots. Perhaps, if you were a member of the hunting club - my parents were not - and you participated in hunting season, the sound of a rifle, in the woods, not a neighborhood - became familiar.

There are many, many places, that are very unlike CH's. Places where people are moving from into this community. Moving from a very, very different experience and perspective.

So, when something as deadly as gun shots ring in the air, to many it is the scariest, craziest and most foreign thing they have ever experienced. It is not, or was not, apart of their reality up to that point.

I don't think I will ever become used to gunshots ringing in the air. If I'm living in a place where that happens, I most certainly want to be informed.

I think SOS is doing an excellent job at trying to tackle the gun issues in the community. If it were not for this board, I honestly would not be aware of 95% of the reported gun activity.

I most certainly want to be informed and aware and of any and all gun activity in the community and surrounding communities.

nofay

OK I have been hearing gunshots on the regular for a large portion of my life. If me and my dogs are inside, we dont sweat it too much. If I am on the street I duck and look for cover. It is different if you have been here a long time. I hate it when it happens when I on the street but I do what I have to do. This happens and will continue to happen. I appreciate your efforts but it will not change a thing. You just have to get savvy about staying away from windows or if outside, quickly finding suitable cover when you hear the shots. Is split second thing not long after the fact thing.

booklaw

One of the few inarguable benefits of gentrification is fewer gunshots...

eastbloc

Nobody mentioned race until you did. Shame.

Not true:

Unless someone personally witnessed the incidences and went directly to the police, posting it on a blog after the fact is not going to help anything except possibly scaring certain people from moving to the area. That being said, keep up the good work!

Your comments are all saturated with your identity politics.

Nofay, I thought black people always supported each other and lived harmoniously regardless of socioeconomic status?

Why do you have to bring Black people into this?

You made that previous point in the context of an argument about how gentrification is bad. I was simply wondering how rationally consistent your world view was, in light of the fact that statistically nearly all the shooters and victims alike in Crown Heights are black.

A fact I take no more pleasure in than you, in spite likely being one of your "certain people."

tsarina

Nobody mentioned race until you did. Shame.

Isn't it a little disingenuous to accuse someone of playing the race card with your avatar?