another shooting -Grand ave and St. Marks Feb 7, 2010 @ 9:48AM

nofay

tsarina said:

Nobody mentioned race until you did. Shame.

Isn't it a little disingenuous to accuse someone of playing the race card with your avatar?

I dont have an avatar? It is a blue questoon mark?

nofay

The ft greene rapist is WHiTE!

capt. planet

ain't no shots fired in Park Slope. What's up with that?

snowboardqueen

Capt. Planet Untrue.

ain't no shots fired in Park Slope. What's up with that?

I do remember reading about gun play on 5th Ave last year. And I lived in Park Slope about 8 yrs before I moved to CH's in late 2008, and I did read about other "gun play" doing those years there - granted not anywhere near the extent in the volume and/or frequency as in CH's.

And I realize that you may be harmlessly trying to "lighten" up the thread, but it strikes as a little insensitive when more understanding and common ground have yet to be reached on this topic.

Nofay, who has admitted to growing up hearing frequent "gun play", has become used to the sound of gun shots and could not understand why others - more of the recent arrivals - became so upset and needed to blog about every gunshot heard.

I feel it's a very valid and deep question. People from different backgrounds and experiences, hopefully trying to understand each other, to find common ground for the greater good of the community and the people who live in it.

Plus, I'm assuming, we have about 20+ years on nofay - as "some sort of elders" let's try to share experiences to enlighten, not mock - even if no harm was meant.

capt. planet

Just keeping it real here. Facts are facts, as unpleasant as they may be. Not mocking, just telling the truth.

I too lived in Park Slope for 25 years before moving to Crown Heights 9 years ago. There's just no comparison. In Crown Heights in certain circles, people are proud of taking their beefs to the streets, of "packin'" and not taking any shit from anybody. I am suggesting this attitude is the problem and the cause of the shootings we are too familiar with.

nofay

Snowboard queen i doubt you are older than me at all let alone 20 years. Is anyone here old enough to remember park slope in the 70s or earlier? Plenty shootings and crime back then.

tsarina

nofay said:

I dont have an avatar? It is a blue questoon mark?

An avatar is also the name you use on the board. So let me spell it out for you: You call out people for using the race card but your avatar is a derogatory name for white people with a N in front of it. what is up with that?

nofay

No idea what you are talking about. Stop being so paranoid.

whynot_31

capt planet wrote: Just keeping it real here. Facts are facts, as unpleasant as they may be. Not mocking, just telling the truth.

I too lived in Park Slope for 25 years before moving to Crown Heights 9 years ago. There's just no comparison. In Crown Heights in certain circles, people are proud of taking their beefs to the streets, of "packin'" and not taking any shit from anybody. I am suggesting this attitude is the problem and the cause of the shootings we are too familiar with.

While true, it is also true that such shootings are less frequent in more "middle class" areas throughout the nation, regardless of the race of the people occupying them.

I.E. Middle class areas that happen to be mostly occupied by black people, such as Middle Village and parts of Canarsie.

....if one looks closer, one also finds that there are a lot of shootings in areas that predominantly are occupied by white people who are (for lack off a better word) "poor".

I.E. Low income trailer parks that are mostly occupied by white people seem to have more than their fair share of gun violence.

(most races and examples upon request ...we obviously live in a diverse city)

....leading me to believe that the cause is not as simple as believers in eugenics would purport, but one which is explained only by understanding the interaction of complex social conditions. Conditions that are detailed in thousands of papers written in the fields of criminology, sociology, social work, psychiatry and the like.

It is lazy to dismiss such conditions, and simply blame eugenics. Such conditions are frequently behind such violence (or the absence of such violence); violence has not been shown to be caused by the color of one's skin.

whyfi

nofay said:

No idea what you are talking about. Stop being so paranoid.

<innocence>"Who? Me?"</innocence>

nofay

The less money people have, the less they give a fuck.

whynot_31

nofay wrote: The less money people have, the less they give a fuck.

At first glance "no money" may provide an explanation, but let's dig deeper.

Let's talk about what the academics call:

poverty of thought

poverty of philosophy

poverty of speech

poverty of ambition

poverty of fanaticism

poverty of the stimulus

poverty of reason

poverty of rights

As a result of these factors, we have a percentage of the population which has no faith in what academics call "the social contract".

Many of those who think about issues such as "gun violence" realize that we are facing problems that are far more complex than could be addressed by simply redistributing income. In other words, individuals could have "more money", yet still not "give a fuck".

Warning: Googling the above academic terms will lead to links containing writings by thinkers such as Cornel West, Malcolm X, MLK, Chomsky, and Marx. (gasp)

Needless to say, such writings may shatter simplistic beliefs ...such as those closely held by believers in eugenics.

Warning: Googling the term "fuck" on your work computer is likely frowned upon by your boss.

And now, a special occasion! A picture of me having an excellent weekend!

...the struggle for reasoned dialogue continues.

jack krohn

nofay = annie wilde

mr. met

if one looks closer, one also finds that there are a lot of shootings in areas that predominantly are occupied by white people who are (for lack off a better word) "poor".

while there probably are more shootings in poor areas in general, is it also true that there are just as many shootings in poor areas, regardless of racial makeup? for example, is the rate of shootings in bushwick (predominantly latin american) equal to bedstuy or crown heights? if not, doesn't it start to become a question of attitude and culture rather than economic standing?

mr. met

a google search revealed that the statistics on that issue aren't in dispute.

whynot_31

Yes, the concepts of "attitude" and "culture" are embedded in the multiple forms of poverty I allude to above.

Because this medium does not allow me to apply or change intonation, I ask that you read the phrase below while applying your own:

Hurt people, hurt people.

....I also use the term "poor" in a way that is roughly synonymous with the terms "disenfranchised", "voiceless", "voteless", "deprived", "underprivileged", "oppressed" and "disadvantaged".

It is a perspective often articulated by the folks described in this link, as they do their work: http://www.stonybrookmedicalcenter.org/ssw/faculty

"Culture" and "attitude" are often in the titles of their publications, and receive much of the credit for explaining one's world view and behaviors, such as participation in gun violence. ...their voices are just part of the chorus that consists of criminology, sociology, social work, psychology and psychiatry.

But, I should also point out that if anyone knew with certainty what caused violence, we'd be a lot closer to stopping it from occurring, and all of those employed in criminal justice, the police and those academic fields would likely throw a massive party despite learning that they would quickly face unemployment.

Despite thousands of years of efforts, clearly, no person or field of study has yet to discover "the answer".

While I support the academics as they research, think and type away.... I'm glad folks like SOS are trying to put the finding of the academics into action, and make efforts to engage those who are most likely to engage in gun violence in Crown Heights:

Those who have just had a friend shot.

Those who are involved in the drug trade.

Those without an education or job.

Those with a history of arrests.....