The 2012 West Indian Day Parade

whynot_31

After last year's parade, I approached a few of the people on the committee, because I was considering writing an article on how this loose knit group of people comes together and works hard to throw this massive event, and then the whole weekend regularly ends up marred by violence. I wanted to see what motivated them to be on such a committee.

For several reasons, I didn't follow thru.

However, I did meet some of the key players. Two informed me that they felt excluded from key decisions re: the parade and wanted less emphasis on the parade, and more on concerts and food.

One even wanted to "shrink" the parade, by making it less long, but stated that food vendors have a lot of power and want it to be as long as possible; It is reportedly incredibly profitable to sell jerk chicken on Labor Day.

To a degree, the WIADCA has done lots of events for a long time. Here's an event they are throwing this weekend:

I would be surprised if there was a shooting, or even a fist fight.

mha

Agreed. But is there no way of PREVENTING the parade unless they can assure that there are such measures taken?

Surely the community board can voice concern, politicians can voice concern, etc. The event should be prefaced with critiques, concerns, etc....

I'm fascinated by what coordination (or lack thereof) occurs between the police and the organizers of this event. Last year, if I recall, even an elected official was arrested by the police. I am sure there is dialogue occurring about this. Looking at the organizer's website there is reference to volunteers, insurance, etc. But, I think the bar should be higher, needs to be higher. I feel there is a need for more.

A personal note: I recall going to the African Street Festival a few years ago -- or whatever the heck it's called now -- and I had to use the bathroom. I went to the bathroom and it was absolutely filthy. The floor was wet, the toilets in utter shambles, and I felt so embarassed to use it, and infruriated that there was no attendant to maintain it. Think about it, with a high volume of people expected at such an event, why didn't the organizers make efforts to ensure that the patrons would be able use a clean bathroom? The lack of attention to this basic of all details bespeaks the concern that the former has for the latter, and I fear, for the Labor Day festivities, the same might be true.

whynot_31

In NYC, all public events seem to struggle with giving crowds adequate services and bathrooms.

The 2012 Googa-Mooga thing in Prospect Park was reportedly completely overwhelmed, and they established control over how many people would attend via a ticket entry system.

The cynic in me thinks that city is desperate for revenue, and will lease out the park (or Eastern Parkway) if it generates some $, without much regard for the externalities.

mha

But -- isn't there a duty of some sort that certain services be provided in the face of a large population convening for any particular event? I'm in a building right now that has emergency defibillator machines near the elevator. In the event that a person has a heart attack, everyone knows where to get the machine. I think that there is some legal obligation to provide these. Is there similarly no such legal obligation by anyone having an event presumed to attract countless thousands?

whynot_31

I believe it is complicated.

Sometimes the obligations are required by the legal authorities, while other times far more stringent obligations are put in place by those who do things like insure or run the event (or in your example, "building").

My favorite example of this is the rules regarding checking ID's at bars. If a bar caters to a young, male, intoxicated, knucklehead, clientele it scans their ID, runs everyone thru a metal detector wand, and hires intimidating guys to hang around.

Old man bars do very little.

NYC does not formally require former to engage in all of that security, they do it as a result of neighborhood complaints, insurance requirements and the like.

I agree, so far, no entity has been effective at getting the measures put in place. I suspect everyone (NYPD, sponsors, insurance companies, organizers, etc) all claim they do not have the power and/or feel it is not their responsibility.

homeowner

I've worked as a volunteer at a number of large events and the willingness to do things like provide water, bathroom facilities, etc is entirely dependent on a couple of things, the biggest one being availability of sponsors. At a lot of large corporate events water would be provided by a sponsorship with a water company such as Poland Spring, Pepsi, Coke, etc. Now with DEP setting up water stations at public events, it should be easy to get water if people want it.

I think the best proxy for how this event could be run is the Jerk Chicken Festival which occurred a few weeks ago in Queens. Its the same demographic as the parade, and yet, no shootings, no fights, etc. But the festival is sponsored by Grace, a major corporation that sells West Indian goods both here and in the islands. Therefore, the festival is designed to highlight their products and to reduce the amount of negative things that may be associated with it. It's held in a park so there are plenty of port-o-sans as well as public bathrooms. There is plenty of food sold and lots of water and hydrating drinks to wash it down. There may be some alcohol consumed on the sly, but people know that if they get drunk they will be ejected from the festival.

If the WICADA can't get it together enough to set its own guidelines then there is always only going to be organized chaos. From what I've seen, sponsors tend to focus on the more controlled events (steel pan battle, opening night reception) and have little to no presence in the actual parade or at J'Overt where its basically a free for all.

whynot_31

I think the biggest sponsors I have seen at the parade sponsor 18 wheelers (ie WBLS, some cell phone companies, Hot 97, etc).

...but, I agree, none sponsor at the level that people associate the parade with their brand.

The largest group that participates seems to be unions: DC 37 "1707" CSEA. I wonder if they could use their numbers and influence to get some changes implemented, or -um- take over the present committee.

I'm sure the police and politicians would love a player that had a year round structure, and is relatively more established and organized.

How could we make the folks at WIDCA desperate enough that they accept help? How could trick an org like the CSEA into believing that playing an official role is a good idea?

P.S. Please tell Grace to have the Jerk Chicken festival in Brooklyn next year.

homeowner

[video]

Just as many people, 99% less drama. And Grace does the same festival in Florida as well.

[video] They planned this festival in four months.

whynot_31

In addition to an accountable sponsor, Grace's event seems to have additional advantages:

1. It is not held in close proximity to very troubled neighborhoods.

2. Tickets must be obtained. People without $ and the ability to plan ahead are thus excluded. People who can't comply with a bag search and/or orderly line to get in are excluded.

3. There is a defined beginning and end to the event.

4. The vendors are under the control of Grace. There is less chance of Nutcracker sales.

Several things seem to happen as result: Knuckleheads don't come to the event, and people who have the ability to not act like Knuckleheads realize that this is an occasion to excercise said skill. As a result, people who rarely (if ever) act like Knuckleheads come in droves and set the norms.

Are there sparkly women at Grace events? Do you think they would be harmful to the Brandt's image? I ask because if the parade is ever cancelled they will need a place to perform.

homeowner

I disagree with the your first point. It's held in Jamaica, Queens which has a similar demographic makeup to Crown Heights. My quick look has CH (CB 8 ) with a median income of $39,503 and Jamaica (CD 12) with a median income of $48,903. Demographics are about the same with CH having a larger white population (15.5% vs 4.6%) and a smaller asian population (2.1% vs 10.1). The communities also have similar breakdowns within the black community with the majority of non-native born people coming from the same four countries Jamaica, Haiti, Guyana, Trinidad & Tobago.

I do think that there are a lot fewer knuckleheads, especially of the young and dumb set. But the biggest difference is that Grace actually cares how people think about their event so they do everything to make the experience as positive as possible.

cool the kid

MHA said:

How about, this little group make a list of all of the empirical factors that create 'tipping points' where violence then occurs?

Here is my theory: That, for the parameter of time that these festivities occur, it possesses the characteristics of a storm; that, in the same way thunder and lightning are emitted at intervals depending upon the presence of certain ELEMENTS, in this case violence is emitted.Instead of us judging the event NORMATIVELY, let us make attempt to observe it CLINICALLY, and try to come up with theory that will enable the event to occur peaceably.

Here are some elements that I think create the problem:

Decibel level of music

Alcohol consumption

Weather (temperature)

Vendor locations

Crowd volume

Sanitation

Its kind of paradoxical that much of what makes the event so great is what makes it such a hot pot for disaster. Outside of sanitation any big curbing or sanitizing of any of the elements you listed would really blunt the fun of the festivities.

Only big change I could see would be maybe moving it to Manhattan... but BK is the yardie borough... EP is just a natural venue for a WI parade

whynot_31

Homeowner-

I concede point 1.

I also agree with you that key to Grace's event may be its vested interest, whereas the parade and J'Overt effectively lacks a powerful entity that takes ownership and responsibility in the outcomes.

Given the history of this parade and J'Overt, I do not think the present array of organizers (a loose knit group that seems to have a hard time even getting along with each other) can rise to the occasion. Nor, do I think that it is reasonable to expect them to have the expertise, time and resources that is required to pull off such an event. In many ways, they have no chance of succeeding.

We seem to need a hero. However, the last 45 years of this event seem to prove that Superman isn't going come, and that switching the membership of WIDCA isn't going to be enough.

All of this, brings me back to Ishtar's fear:

Ishtar wrote: It's really sad that people cannot make a distinction between the two like Arm Chair did. I almost feel like some people will attribute this to ALL black people and their dealing just because they're socialized to.

As I view this, here we have a series events that have the intention of showing the "culture" of West Indian Americans in a positive light.

In my view, many of the sanctioned events accomplish this. However, the two largest events, J'Overt and the parade, tend to reinforce (or even establish) a negative image of West Indian American "culture" in the minds of people who are prone to letting their emotions trump their intellect.

While I believe that such individuals will be always with us, and that no one is immune from such "lazy" inferences, I also believe that we should avoid giving our "opponents" the equivalent of free ammunition to fight "us".

Do we have any entity that is strong enough to stand up and state, "these events no longer serve "us", and it is therefore time to modify them?"

Do we have any entity that would be willing to endure the almost certain charges of "punishing everyone for the actions of a few" (as we known, such motivations are often the root of racism, classism, etc), and is able to emerge from such accusations strong enough to still enact changes that would benefit the group of people they just successfully defended themselves as being against?

I fear we do not.

homeowner

I agree. What would make this possible would be if a deep pocket appeared with money to make the changes happen. If said deep pocket instituted structural changes to the event such as limited amplified sound trucks, return to primarily steel ban and pan focus, creation of a dedicated event staff, public acknowledgement of the event being alcohol free, etc. WITHOUT DISCUSSION OR DEBATE. If deep pocket took ownership of portions of the event that are currently not owned by anyone like hydration, first aid, and sanitation during the event. If deep pocket engaged the police to work out issues around crowd control and demanded that the pokice engage in respectful policing.

At the same time said deep pocket would need to be an entity that was West Indian owned or controlled such that it is seen as a valid placeholder for WICADA, and certain WICADA factions would need to be satisfied with positions of honor to keep the carping down. I can't think of a deep pocket that fits that bill.

But, the reality is this isn't hard. Its a matter of being willing to say some difficult things and make some folks unhappy. Personally, I subscribe to the theory that if everyone is unhappy then you've reached the optimal solution.

whynot_31

Government often excels at creating laws and regulations that make everyone equally unhappy. However, the politicians seem to walk and waive at the front of the parade, making sure to have an adequate distance between themselves and the parade that follows behind.

To my knowledge, none bother to show up (even to waive) at J'overt.

As a result, J'Overt seems the most vulnerable to being cancelled. If the police and politicians cancelled it, do you think they would get much backlash?

I can not think of another free festival in NYC that has a sanctioned, late night party. Would the absence of similar events in NYC provide a valid defense to charges of discrimination?

whynot_31

This article is posted for those who believe that the parade is to blame for the violence that will (in all likelihood) occur over the Labor Day weekend, and in the areas near Eastern Parkway:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/nyregion/two-children-among-six-people-shot-in-brooklyn.html?_r=2

My point is that NYC is violent on "regular" summer weekends. Granted, NYC is often MORE VIOLENT on Labor Day than other weekends, but perspective is necessary.

Perspective is also fair to those who organize and participate in the WIADC events.

mha

So, is it that the parade attracts violence that would otherwise occur somewhere else within the five boroughs? Is there a curious case of a drop in crime in other areas of the city when there is a spike in violence at the parade, and in the tangential neighborhoods?

homeowner

I said this last year and I'll say it again. The media lumps violence and associates it with the parade. That violence happened all over the city over the course of 80 or so hours.

For example after last year's shootings I believe it was the Daily News that put together a map call "Labor Day Mayhem" which listed all the shootings that occurred throughout the city over the Labor Day weekend. Significantly, when I looked at it last year, it appeared that out of the 52 shootings that happened over the course of the weekend only 10 of those occurred in the general vicinity of the parade and only 2 of them occured along the route. The other 52 shooting occured throughout the city including places as far away as the Bronx and Staten Island.

What we saw last year was that there were violent incidents in every borough, some happening as much as 60 hours before the parade, but all lumped together in this category of Labor Day (Parade) Mayhem.

The bottom line is the parade may be the site of violent acts, but it doesn't draw all violent activity to it. Dumb people shoot at each other year round all throughout the city. If last year was any indication those dumb people live all over the city and Labor Day happens to be a particularly bad weekend as its the end of summer and folks tend to overdo the partying. I'd suggest if we want to be safe we'd cancel Labor Day.

NYC Labor Day mayhem

There were 52 shootings and 67 victims – 12 of them fatalities – in the wave of gun violence that swept New York City for the long Labor Day weekend, according to the NYPD.

Two of the wounded were cops and one of those killed was an innocent bystander – 56-year-old mother Denise Gay. She was shot in the head and died on her front stoop in Crown Heights in front of her daughter.

This is the breakdown of shootings from Friday Sept. 2 to Monday Sept. 5:

Friday: 7 shooting incidents, 9 shooting victims, 5 resulted in deaths

Saturday: 10 shooting incidents, 10 shooting victims, 1 resulted in death

Sunday: 22 shooting incidents, 33 shooting victims, 1 resulted in death

Monday: 13 shooting incidents, 15 shooting victims, 3 resulted in deaths

The below list of locations on our map represent a tally based on information gathered by the New York Daily News.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202058781407149723466.0004ac45b36c6437bfe79&msa=0&ll=40.913513,-73.883915&spn=0.106504,0.264187

whynot_31

Yes, absolute safety will always be out of reach. Crime varies enough that we have yet to figure out with precision who is going to shoot/stab/punch who, or when it is going to happen.

...on occasion, someone goes on rampage in Colorado at movie theater.

If we spent our lives only allowing events that were deemed "safe", we might not ever go outside.

As a result, we act on generalities. We do cost benefit analysis with lots of assumptions and unknowns.

Can we start with J'Overt? Could we move it to a venue in which tickets were required, and bags were searched?

...alcohol would be for sale by licensed vendors.

sandcastler

whynot_31 said:

Can we start with J'Overt?

The fact that you do not know how to spell it makes me skeptical of your plan.

whynot_31

The police have tied three of the shootings and five victims to the West Indian Day Parade, and say the tally could have been higher had officers not seized 14 illegal guns and arrested 16 people during J’Ouvert.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/07/nyregion/shooting-in-crown-heights-part-of-violent-weekend.html

Update: Whynot_31 learns how J'Ouvert is spelled.

homeowner

Tickets and searching bags are both reasonable suggestions. Better one would be to have J'Overt take place at Floyd Bennett Field, where there is plenty of space, a controlled area, and no chance for folks to do things like climb fences or bum rush doors to get in. Add a couple of DWI checkpoints on Flatbush Ave and it would be a perfect deterrent to tomfoolery.

mha

I think the city should obligate the organizers of such a parade to a higher standard of care.

For instance, take sanitation, yes, the NYC sanitation department dutifully picks up all the garbage generated, but that is after the event is over. before, individuals have to virutally wade through garbage. The organizers should have staff who are continually bagging excess garbage.

Secondly, because of the high volume of people, there should be a parade official at each block with a walkie talkie on hand to alert the police or EMT technicians in the event of a breach of security, or if health concerns arise.

Thirdly, the volume of these passing trucks is absolutely outrageous and unneccessary, and it is my opinion that with the advent these huge speakers on the trucks came a corruption of the musi itself. It would be better -- more authentic -- if live bands provided the accoustics. I know that is never going to happen, but still, it's what I think.

Fourthly, I think if you are a underage minor you should not be allowed to go to this event. This is a hard one to regulate, but, I do believe it can be done.

Fifthly -- the 'Nutbusters' and other alcohol-laced beverages should be strictly prohibited. No exceptions. Police shouldn't turn the other way in full view of it being sold. They should arrest those that do.

The organizers tout in their literature how much money can be made by vendors at this event. They should therefore charge more money for the added cost of providing security, sanitation and even bathroom facilities. It is negligent to have this parade, know that some people are going to litter, commit violent crime, and relieve themselves in the street -- and not attempt to do anything to prevent these actions, or at least take measures to mitigate the effects of them.

whynot_31

Given the lack of deep pocket sponsors for the parade, I think your requirements would (intentionally or not) effectively cancel it.

I think the St. Patrick's Day parade and the PR parade would also be done for.

The Macy Thanksgiving Parade would thrive: It has a big sponsor and a very orderly, family crowd.

We'd have a bland NYC....

homeowner

MHA, I'm with you on everything except #4, and I could get there if you said unacompanied minors.

So here's my solutions for how to do it.

1)As I said before every participating group marching in the parade would have to provide 5-10 bodies to serve as event staff. These people would be broken up as sanitation and general staff. General event staff would be assigned to a particular block and would rove and provide asistance as necessary either to vendors, first aid, or sanitation.

2) A specific outreach would be done to West Indian health organizations for volunteers to staff first aid/comfort stations. There would be one station every 4-5 blocks staff with volunteer nurses/doctors/EMTs to provide support if needed

3) Amplified music is banned from the parade except in front of the reviewing stand. Only bands would be allowed on floats and if they need to amplify themselves it would be at a set volume.

Now all you, me, and Whynot have to do is stage a coup, take over WICADA and run the parade ourselves.

whynot_31

I'm not joining WIADCA, or taking it over.

If we were smart, we would implement these rules in a way that it did not look like were responding to this particular event.

For example, we could sneak the regulations into a City Council bill that mainly dealt with day care regulations. ...they would go unnoticed.

[We could get Sandcastler to spell check for us.]

The regulations would have a start date of Jan 1, 2013.

The first parade the regulations would effect would be some tiny little parade in Queens that happens in January.

Hell, we could even throw a parade for some obscure holiday in January (Happy Winterfest!), and receive a small fine, just to show the regulations had to be abide by.

Then, all subsequent parades would have to follow the regulations. ...slow but surely, WI Labor day parade would approach.

The parade might not successfully abide in year 1, and would get a big fine.

As a result, it would be "for sale" for the amount of the fine and bought by a big sponsor.

cremate

Don't we have enough laws/ordinances and ones that already cover this (drugs, alcohol, weapons, loud noises, public indecency, etc...)

whynot_31

Yes.

It also wouldn't take a genius to state:

"your ordinances only apply to the sanctioned event. The parade takes place over a 20 block area, for 3 hours. What happens outside of this area is the responsibility of the police. My organization complied with all of the rules. Next."

If we were to actually enforce the laws on the books re: the present parade, would we end up with a massive, completely unsanctioned events in Prospect Park, and other parks throughout Brooklyn?

Would they be even harder to police?

Would people who want nothing to do with a sterile parade OR intoxicated, armed men find that (due to enforcement of existing laws and new ones) that they now can't even take refuge at the local park on Labor Day?

whynot_31

The Dominican parade took place this past weekend, and had some arrests and violence associated with it:

A 21-year-old man was slashed on his right arm, police said A 28-year-old man was hit in the head "with a blunt object" in the fights between Keap and Hooper streets shortly after 9 p.m., police said.

The 21-year-old "was screaming and looked mad," Beniquez said. "You could see the blood running down the back of his shirt. People were trying to back him away from the crowd.''

The other casualty might have been hit with a bottle, a police source said.

Both men were taken to Bellevue Hospital in stable condition, police said.

Neither victim has been identified.

Nine people, including four teenagers, were arrested: Tatiana Cabrera, 17, and Jackelyn Garcia, 35, were charged with unlawful assembly; Ernesto Carabello, 21, Michael Hernandez, 26, and Edwin Fermin, 22, were charged with disorderly conduct; Yaritsa Gomez, 28, and Ashley Vinas, 18, were charged with resisting arrest and disorderly conduct; Danny Cabrera, 36, was charged with obstruction of governmental administration, unlawful assembly and disorderly conduct; and an unidentified 15-year-old boy was charged with criminal possession of marijuana.

They were awaiting arraignment Monday at Brooklyn Criminal Court.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20120813/williamsburg/two-injured-nine-arrested-block-party-brawls-after-dominican-day-parade

nothinlikeabklyngirl

The Daily News has an article about some of the changes being made to the parade this year: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nypd-watchword-year-west-indian-day-carnival-parade-safety-article-1.1134803.

Don't think most of them will decrease the propensity for violence on/adjacent to the parade route. But the new rules/inspections/additional police for the sound trucks are good steps toward increasing safety. And creating access points to cross Eastern Parkway is a huge improvement to the current, frustrating crowd control practices.

whynot_31

I've bolded my favorite parts. ...basically I bolded the whole article.

Daily News wrote: The party people won’t be chicken about crossing the road at this year’s West Indian American Day parade.

In past years the massive crowds — some three million were in attendance last year — and the New York City Police Department wooden barricades lining Eastern Parkway for the day-long celebration made moving from the north to the south side of the street almost impossible.

But parade organizers said the NYPD has agreed to create access points along the parade route this year that will allow spectators to walk across the street.

“The police will open certain blocks to allow people to cross the street during the parade,” said William Howard, first vice president of the West Indian American Day Carnival Association.

Noting that people from different Caribbean nations tend to congregate in separate areas along the route, Howard said the change will let “people from Port of Spain Trinidad) visit with folks from Port-au-Prince (Haiti) during the parade.”

The move is among several new measures intended to increase security and improve safety at the parade, scheduled to step off at 10 a.m. Monday, Sept. 3.

Police have also pledged to make it easier for costumed revelers to leave Eastern Parkway to use bathrooms and buy food and rejoin the parade, a problem in past years, Howard said.

More volunteers will be on hand around the Brooklyn Museum and near Grand Army Plaza, where the parade officially ends, to keep marchers from walking back up Eastern Parkway, further clogging the streets, once the group they’ve marched with has completed its run.

Sound trucks - flatbed trailers with massive speakers that supply the music the followers dance to — have also been modified. The highest speaker on the truck can be no more than 13 feet off the ground, said WIADCA Board member Joan Pierre.

The wheels on each of the 18-wheelers — 40 bands are scheduled, and each should have a truck — will be covered to protect people walking next to them. The NYPD Highway Patrol will inspect each truck the weekend before the parade and issue certificates which each driver must carry to be allowed to drive in the parade, Howard said.

A Highway Patrol officer will ride in the cab of each parade truck for the length of the parade, with two NYPD officers walking on foot in front of the truck the entire route.

“That policeman riding in the truck has control of the truck,” Howard said. “Let’s say there is an incident further up the road. If something is not right, they can cut off the music. They can take charge very quickly.”

Once at Grand Army Plaza marchers can no longer follow the trucks, which will turn down Flatbush Ave. and return to camps scattered across the Flatbush community, WIADCA Treasure Angela Sealy said. Trucks will have to turn off the music once they reach Grand Army Plaza. The Highway Patrol officer inside the cab will stay there until the truck reaches its home base.

“The people can meet the truck there, they just can’t walk behind it all the way there,” Sealy said.

WIADCA will have a “flying squad” of volunteers to respond to any incident, like the one last year in which City Councilman Jumaane Williams and Kirsten Foy, a community affairs officer in Public Advocate Bill de Blasio’s office, were detained by police, Howard said.*

New York Fire Department officials will be inspecting all propane grills used by vendors selling food to make sure they are safe.

Police will also be cracking down on vendors selling an assortment of goods on East Parkway without a WIADCA permit, (does this include Nutcrackers?) particularly vendors in the blocks east of Utica and Rochester avenues, Howard said. Schnectedy Ave is the official parade starting point and vendors east of there will face increased scrutiny.

Vendors without permits could be ticketed and have their goods confiscated, Howard said. He urged vendors interested in selling on Eastern Parkway to call the WIADCA offices at 718-467-1797.

A 2004 study by the New York State Economic Development Corp. found that the 2003 West Indian parade throng — only a third the size of the crowd expected this year — generated $154.8 million for the city.

For more information on the parade see the website, www.WIADCACARNIVAL.com.

For everyone's sake, I hope these changes help.