Culture? Racism? Romney and the culture argument

the psycho-ologist

Romney claims culture is behind Palestine's economic woes

Is it just me, or does this speak to a larger issue of "Western" Read (western european/USA Hegemony), to even suggest "culture" rather than admit to all the exploitative, game changing historical shenanigans Europe has perpetrated against Palestine, in the name of "creating" modern Israel, and defending its "right to exist".

-EDIT-

I do believe that Israel has a right to exist,

but as it did Pre 1967 or better yet 1948 as a kind of hodgepodge of disparate beliefs all in one small area that with A TON OF WORK, could co-exist like New Yorkers but up with Bible belt states.

-END EDIT-

I say this, because this same argument of "culture" has been bandied about in these very forums when trying to describe why certain areas or "people" seem to live in dire situations or act in ways that seem anti-social.

It is amazing how people forget history, the psychology of oppression, and the devastating consequences repeated shaming and degradation based on race (read Jim crow or apartheid or checkpoints in Palestine) has on an individual or community's sense of agency to "improve" or do better for one's self. I liken this to battered women, suffering long and hard, due to the psychology of not being able to A) recognize their oppression, being drilled into believing that they are inferior C) feeling powerless to change the dynamic.

The fact that Ronmey can say something so cheap and utterly insensitive about a whole historically based problem, speaks volumes about this Party and their view towards ANYONE other than the White Western European Non Jewish Rich men who run it.

Ugh... sorry folks for the rant, too much political vile today.

armchair_warrior

He just wants to kiss the ring of Israeli lobby in the US like most Candidates do.

the psycho-ologist

armchair_warrior said:

He just wants to kiss the ring of Israeli lobby in the US like most Candidates do.

At what expense? Kicking an already exploited people further down? Why can't we leave nation building alone. I hate Ron Paul, but I agreed that we didn't know or have enough vested in the Palestine Israel conflict to really make it our business. We should be nation building right here where we need it most.

armchair_warrior

I vote for ron paul, he is at least consistent unlike majority of candidates from both sides.

the psycho-ologist

armchair_warrior said:

I vote for ron paul, he is at least consistent unlike majority of candidates from both sides.

Somehow I imagine you would. Would you be willing to shell out tax dollars to clothe, feed or house all those fetuses that Ron did not want to "abort"? Or are you willing to wait until those poverty stricken "non aborted" fetuses grow up and mug you, because as a republican you wanted them born, but were unwilling to make sure they could make a decent living in any other fashion but robbing and turning to petty crime just to get by..

(I have too much vitriol today.. is it a full moon?)

the psycho-ologist

back to brooklyn

I don't feel like Mitt Romney was being sensitive toward any interests here. In fact, when he ascribed the wealth of Israel as a product of culture, he may as well have said "Now, I know you people are good with money."

In one statement, he managed to degrade Arab culture, and reinforce a historical stereotype of the Jews.

armchair_warrior

I believe in abortion of fetuses and adults alike.

I might not believe in many of his policy ideas, but dude is very consistent on those ideas. which is why i'll vote for him lol but he doesn't have a snowballs chance in satan's anus.

whynot_31

Note to self: Armchair will not vote for candidates who practice pragmatism.

A party known as the Pragmatic Party stands no chance of getting AW's vote, unless he can be convinced that change is, in an existential sort of way, a dogmatic constant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogmatism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism

armchair_warrior

to me its its about politicians who lie and lie all the time and not actually do anything they promise, in that type of system i rather vote for a guy who sticks with his views even if i don't agree with half of them.

I'm un very dogmatic, i'm very pragmatic person. I flow with water, bend with the wind etc...

tateinbk

Armchair,

If you support most Libertarian policies, consistent politicians, AND a woman's right to choose, I urge you to look at Gary Johnson instead of Ron Paul, or even Rand Paul. You get the low taxes, small government across the board except Johnson believes that part of small government is not having it all up in women's, er, business. Plus, you don't get that pesky "racist letters" drama.

landlord

say what you will, but Romney's statement is correct. It might be a bit insensitive....but correct non-the-less. Its the Jewish culture that has catapulted the small nation way above its arab neighbors in every sociological way. Its because of their culture that Israel has more doctors and scientists per sq mile then anywhere in the world. Its because of their culture that Israel has more start up companies per capita then anywhere in the world.

So...yea....Romney was insensitive.....but 100% correct!

armchair_warrior

landlord said:

say what you will, but Romney's statement is correct. It might be a bit insensitive....but correct non-the-less. Its the Jewish culture that has catapulted the small nation way above its arab neighbors in every sociological way. Its because of their culture that Israel has more doctors and scientists per sq mile then anywhere in the world. Its because of their culture that Israel has more start up companies per capita then anywhere in the world.

So...yea....Romney was insensitive.....but 100% correct!

they also get billions of usd a year for being just israel. free money would buy alot things.

armchair_warrior

tateinbk said:

Armchair,

If you support most Libertarian policies, consistent politicians, AND a woman's right to choose, I urge you to look at Gary Johnson instead of Ron Paul, or even Rand Paul. You get the low taxes, small government across the board except Johnson believes that part of small government is not having it all up in women's, er, business. Plus, you don't get that pesky "racist letters" drama.

armchair says he votes, He says . A vote in these parts are mostly wasted. people just vote for mostly party lines these days. pointless in this system anyway democratic my ass. I rather have a parliamentary system where a vote actually counts!!!

whynot_31

I would like to live under a benevolent dictator.

I would like to be said dictator.

the psycho-ologist

landlord said:

say what you will, but Romney's statement is correct. It might be a bit insensitive....but correct non-the-less. Its the Jewish culture that has catapulted the small nation way above its arab neighbors in every sociological way. Its because of their culture that Israel has more doctors and scientists per sq mile then anywhere in the world. Its because of their culture that Israel has more start up companies per capita then anywhere in the world.

So...yea....Romney was insensitive.....but 100% correct!

No say what you want about what the TRUTH of history reveals:

Israel's might, weaponry and cash flow to buy said weaponry has been and still is heavily subsidized by wealthy European nations, and the USA. They are greater than Palestine because they had rich European and USA backers. Its like second generation heirs (Donald Trump/ Mitt Romney) claiming that they worked hard and became successful, when all along they had rich parents backing them.

If one brings sanctions against Palestinians for wanting to be agents of free will and a nation, but subsidize Israel. Who do you expect would win the "infrastructure war"?

It is hardly culture, but a deliberate nation building attempt by Western European powers who once felt guilty (as they should have) over the travesty of WWII and wanted to pay it forward to future Jewish generations by creating the state of Israel.

In 1967, Israel was heavily subsidized by the US and Europe who felt that they were better allies than the Arab states and helped Israel gain more territory from Palestine.

Israel exists thanks to the goodwill of the USA and Europe.

I liken this to folks in Levittown NY talking about how they worked hard to be middle class, with 400,000+ plus homes when in fact the original builder of their neighborhood, and the banks colluded together to give blue collar Whites who wouldn't have had anything to show for, loans to buy cheap homes, all whilst locking out other races. Thus creating a future disparity between Levittown home owners who could re-mortgage their homes so that their kids could go to college and join the "professional class" while other blue collar ranked racial groups became the "culture" that just wouldn't/couldn't do well in life.

the psycho-ologist

whynot_31 said:

I would like to live under a benevolent dictator.

I would like to be said dictator.

As long as you are:

pro-choice

Pro-alcohol

pro-coffee

and Pro- quiet home living arrangements

I'd vote for you.

the psycho-ologist

armchair_warrior said:

they also get billions of usd a year for being just israel. free money would buy alot things.

Armchair.. The sun turned purple. I never thought you and I would _ever_ be in agreement, but wow here it is. I agree 100%

the psycho-ologist

tateinbk said:

Armchair,

If you support most Libertarian policies, consistent politicians, AND a woman's right to choose, I urge you to look at Gary Johnson instead of Ron Paul, or even Rand Paul. You get the low taxes, small government across the board except Johnson believes that part of small government is not having it all up in women's, er, business. Plus, you don't get that pesky "racist letters" drama.

Back to Brooklyn said:

I don't feel like Mitt Romney was being sensitive toward any interests here. In fact, when he ascribed the wealth of Israel as a product of culture, he may as well have said "Now, I know you people are good with money."

In one statement, he managed to degrade Arab culture, and reinforce a historical stereotype of the Jews.

You know thinking about that Maybe you are right. Still, I think he meant it more as a dig against Palestine.

mha

I dunno 'folks, it's REALLY difficult to take seriously the words of a dude who believes that Jesus came to the good ol' U.S. of A. I mean, the Mormon bible is NONSENSE, right? We can agree on that, right?

booklaw

I doubt that Romney believes the Mormon dogma.

As far as I can tell, he doesn't believe in anything except making money and protecting it from taxation.

He's a good Republican!

the psycho-ologist

MHA said:

I dunno 'folks, it's REALLY difficult to take seriously the words of a dude who believes that Jesus came to the good ol' U.S. of A. I mean, the Mormon bible is NONSENSE, right? We can agree on that, right?

The terrifying problem is that many people *DO* take this man seriously, seriously enough to be elected the top contender in the republican party to go against Obama. There is also enough support for this dude to have him run a legitamate race against Obama.

No I am not 100% in agreement with everything Obama stands for, but sadly, there seems to be a lot of folks who not only buy what Romney is selling, but have just as "crazy" beliefs about god/jeebus/and Obama being a Kenyan born Muslim.

Oh the humanity of this country.

the psycho-ologist

booklaw said:

I doubt that Romney believes the Mormon dogma.

As far as I can tell, he doesn't believe in anything except making money and protecting it from taxation.

He's a good Republican!

Yeah. This is why you are one of my favorite posters here in Brooklynian. Succinct and Smart!

whynot_31

People believe in all sorts of things.

....but I find they profess their beliefs most confidently and loudly when they think they are in front of a supportive audience.

landlord

they also get billions of usd a year for being just israel. free money would buy alot things.

arafat received a fortune to help his people. that money went into his paris bank account instead of building schools and hospitals for his people. after his death the plo had to chase his wife in paris to refund what was left for their govt.

additionally, the money israel gets from the US goes toward military defense and armament. very few $$$ enter the private sector.

landlord

“Culture,” Romney said, “makes all the difference . . . you notice a dramatic, stark difference in economic vitality.”

You want a political culture that works to create conditions under which an economy can thrive? Since signing the Oslo Accords with the Palestinians, Israel has spent two decades working to unshackle its economy from its socialist roots, with remarkable results.

The Palestinians? They’ve created what the House Foreign Affairs Committee has called a “chronic kleptocracy,” with foreign aid and investment shamelessly stolen and diverted to the bank accounts of the leaders of the Palestinian Authority and its gangsterish local strongmen.

According to Jim Zanotti of the Congressional Research Service, Uncle Sam has given the Palestinians $5 billion since 1994. We might as well have lit a match to most of it. It hasn’t gotten to the people who might’ve used it best; it’s simply served as personal financial lubricant for the folks in power.

You want a healthy social culture? The Middle East Media Research Institute has spent decades detailing the diseased messages emanating from Palestinian TV and textbooks, instructing children in the glories of suicide terrorism against innocent Israelis.

You want a culture where citizens are free to express themselves and so live in the openness necessary to the functioning of a successful economy? Israel has a free press, much of it openly hostile to the parties in power. The Palestinian Authority has arrested and tortured critical journalists, as well as conducted denial-of-service attacks against Web sites reporting on corruption.

And this doesn’t even take into account Hamas, the radical terror group in charge of Gaza. It, too, has lived parasitically, sucking the life out of the Palestinian economy.

In 1993, pre-Oslo, the GDP in the territories was $2.9 billion, according to the World Bank. In 2011, it was something like $10.5 billion — a small increase when you consider population growth.

In Israel, the GDP has risen from $66 billion in 1993 to a stunning $243 billion in 2011 — per capita, from $12,500 to $31,000.

One reason Palestinian economic growth has been so disastrously slow is the terror war that Yasser Arafat launched against Israel in 2000 — the “second Intifada.”

It shattered Israeli hopes for peaceful concert with a new neighboring country, and led to an economic estrangement that proved horribly costly to Palestinians. Israelis stopped employing Palestinian workers and stopped buying Palestinian goods. Transit and trade between the two became difficult and painful.

And whose fault was it? Israel, which agreed in principle to a deal at Camp David in 2000 granting Palestinians a state with sovereign dominion over nearly 94 percent of the West Bank? No, it was exclusively the doing of Arafat, who served as a reverse George Washington — rejecting nationhood for the violence he understood better.

So Romney said Israel has done better than the areas under Palestinian control because Israeli culture is healthier. That’s not only true, it’s a necessary thing to say — because the refusal to say it and accept it contributes to the continuing immiseration and unfreedom of the Palestinians themselves.

Of course, for saying this, Romney was called a “racist” by Saeb Erakat, the longtime slavering lackey of every Palestinian murderer and thief. Erakat blames “occupation” for Palestinian poverty. But the PA has dominion over almost all of the West Bank and Hamas has control over all of Gaza, so the word “occupation” is all but meaningless — except as shorthand for “Israel still holds Jerusalem."

Dan Amira in New York magazine spoke for much of the press corps with an item titled “Mitt Romney Insults Whole New International Populace.” He wrote: “After he enraged the British by suggesting that their Olympics might not be as awesome as his Olympics, Romney moved on to Israel, where he appeared to blame Palestinian poverty in part on . . . the territory’s inferior culture.”

It does have an inferior political culture. Romney spoke the truth. And it wasn’t a gaffe — because anyone who publicizes his remark is helping Romney win the election. Even those who foolishly think they’re hurting him.

whynot_31

Romney is likely a believer in the Culture of Poverty.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_poverty

I predict his handlers will conclude that professing this belief will help him win as well.

Ready?

landlord

No say what you want about what the TRUTH of history reveals:

Israel's might, weaponry and cash flow to buy said weaponry has been and still is heavily subsidized by wealthy European nations, and the USA. They are greater than Palestine because they had rich European and USA backers. Its like second generation heirs (Donald Trump/ Mitt Romney) claiming that they worked hard and became successful, when all along they had rich parents backing them.

If one brings sanctions against Palestinians for wanting to be agents of free will and a nation, but subsidize Israel. Who do you expect would win the "infrastructure war"?

It is hardly culture, but a deliberate nation building attempt by Western European powers who once felt guilty (as they should have) over the travesty of WWII and wanted to pay it forward to future Jewish generations by creating the state of Israel.

In 1967, Israel was heavily subsidized by the US and Europe who felt that they were better allies than the Arab states and helped Israel gain more territory from Palestine.

Israel exists thanks to the goodwill of the USA and Europe.

you know not what you say! All the billions in the world will not help the afgans, or the iraqi or any muslim country that instills backward laws and dictatorships. The same is certainly true for the palestinians who are ruled by hamas.

...as i mentioned earlier, the majority of the money israel got is for its military defense...not social infrastructure. However, its the israeli culture of democracy, free speech and religious freedom that made it the most successful country in the middle east per capita.

the psycho-ologist

whynot_31 said:

Romney is likely a believer in the Culture of Poverty.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_poverty

I predict his handlers will conclude that professing this belief will help him win as well.

Ready?

I doubt he will win. Its my crappy faith in this country, but I doubt he will win, because his politics and his economic standing, alienate so many working and middle class people. I doubt that even the blue collar Jeebus fearing folks, identify with this ultra selfish ultra wealthy anti little guy candidate