Trash on Franklin Ave. Is it a mess or a mess?

whynot_31

Um, I believe is less likely to happen on Franklin between EP and Atlantic, but one does not have to look far to see the same intense dynamics at play.

-- Present day Nostrand, between EP and Fulton.

-- Present day Franklin, around Union.

Remember, the police don't perceive the event as one which should be ALWAYS avoided. I predict a similar event will happen in Brooklyn this summer, likely in an Impact Zone.

whynot_31

Bump.

Date and location of the next clean-up

Saturday, June 29, 9AM - noon.

Meet at 737 Franklin Ave.

More details about the campaign to clean up Franklin Avenue: http://crowhillcommunity.org/category/projects/

whynot_31

An attempt to get the merchants to step up, because no one in their right mind thinks they can get the city to clean up all of the trash and litter:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1V6XKRFysMU0yANxHiidEp62TU6LgCF3qpl0vV4ddASI/viewform

goldemi

The merchants are a start, as are the building owners and even tenants where there are no merchants ('no man's land')...its like the 'broken windows theory', if people see some trash, they think its ok to keep throwing more and then worse.

There also needs to be a cultural change. It's a certain segment that I see just dropping trash more than anyone else. I once saw a little boy with his grandma, casually throw is paper bag to the floor. A girl walking by picked it up, gave it back to him and politely pointed to the trash can...and the grandma looked at the girl in disgust and anger. Sad.

whynot_31

A lot of the merchants that are opening storefronts on Franklin, already have locations in neighborhoods with established BIDs and merchant associations.

Their clientele expects clean streets, and has the ability to do business elsewhere if they don't get what they want.

In other words, I believe there will always be people who litter, and lots of trash is generated simply by having a busy street (no matter what the demographics...).

The smart business districts clean up the streets. ...they know that expecting the city to cleanup and maintain "our business strip" is completely unrealistic.

This is just a matter of getting them organized.

newguy88

whynot_31 said:

I predict a similar event will happen in Brooklyn this summer, likely in an Impact Zone.

I'm calling you out on this whynot. I don't remember any riots this summer.

whynot_31

The aforementioned incident on Franklin didn't meet my definition of a riot, hence I would only need to cite an incident in which a group of people briefly battled of group of cops trying to enforce relatively minor laws.

...too easy.

I'd rather talk about efforts to get merchants to adopt a trash can.

Some of them are quite parent-less.

whynot_31

"How do we get rid of the trash on Franklin?" continues to be asked:

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20130923/crown-heights/adding-more-trash-cans-wont-clean-up-franklin-ave-sanitation-dept-warns

By simultaneously fining merchants who don't address overflowing trash cans, and refusing to empty trash cans more often, the city may achieve its wish:

The creation of a merchants association cleans up the mess.

....once the fines exceed the cost of hiring homeless folks, we will see some movement.

http://www.doe.org/who_we_are.cfm

whynot_31

The research begins:

http://crowhillcommunityassociation.cmail1.com/t/ViewEmail/r/1F31DEC47049B1AB2540EF23F30FEDED/B53F2E6E2368B7F0A7F290B8E8FDC6A0

Spoiler alert: The answer is "neither more trash cans or less trash cans will solve the problem"

...you can't count on the city to solve this problem.

newguy88

This is one of those things where people need to say. "I don't like roaches, mice and rats. So I'm going to stop throwing my trash where ever I damn well please even if that means carrying it to another can."

I'm going to keep in eye on the trash and fill out their form none the less.

biffackley

I know I'm late to this thread, but it's a good one, as this summer was tough in terms of the amount of garbage. After the weekend, every bench on EP between Franklin and Classon was surrounded by an obscene amount of trash.

I think a few of the posts danced around, but wouldn't directly address, the real issue at hand. More garbage cans or merchant responsibility or clean-up days will only go so far.

We all know that CERTAIN old-school Crown Heights residents hang out in the street (or in their parked cars, which has never made any sense to me) far more often than they will ever hang out in a bar or restaurant. And yet the street does not strike them as something they need to take any ownership of, nor do they instruct their children to do so. The street is their bar, their den, their garbage can and their toilet, and yet the responsibility for maintaining the street is entirely the responsibility of "them." Some of my neighbors on Eastern Parkway treat the hallways and stairwells of the building the same way. They'll smoke on a stairwell or even elevator and drop their butts on the floor. They'll stick their trash NEXT to the trash shoot. They'll carry their discarded furniture no further than the hallway, expecting THEM to take care of it.

No matter that many of their hard working long-time neighbors are as irritated by this behavior as more recent tenants like me. This type of individual could really give a sh-t what anyone thinks of their behavior. The South Bronx of 1977 is embedded in their DNA and no amount of coffee shops or kvetching by effete quasi-hipsters will convince them they're not living in a ghetto.

So all that to say, until the neighborhood is swept clean of those folks, expect another few years of garbage-strewn sidewalks.

goldemi

Biff, I don't think theres anything wrong or controversial about what you said, its spot on. It's a cultural thing unfortunately, and no amount of cans will solve it. Just as no amount of playgrounds and afterschool programs will solve the gang problem. It all starts at home, and the community (As I pointed out an example in an earlier post, of the little black kid who threw his garbage on the sidewalk in front of his grandmother who didnt even say anything, but was upset when a woman picked it up and gave it back to him nicely pointing at the trashcan. clearly the behavior was learned, or just never corrected)

whynot_31

While hypothesizing about the causes to Franklin Avenue's littering problem makes for good conversation, it isn't of much use if we have no realistic means to address said causes.

A contingent of people is tired of looking at the litter.

They are unwilling to wait to see if further waves of gentrification solve the litter problem.

...however, they do not yet have the means and will to hire an entity like the DOE Fund.

Hence, they will patiently watch the experiments and try to build a merchants' association that can hire The DOE Fund once enough of its members believes no other solution will work.

biffackley

Well, I certainly have no objection to anyone giving it the old college try.

whynot_31

What I find especially fun is the belief that the city provides significantly more sanitation services in the areas with less litter.

Said belief removes all credit from the merchants associations, BIDs, orgs like the Doe Fund, and people in the area.

....without taking the time to realize that the Sanitation Department largely allocates its time in terms of hours.

I.E. If your Association buys lots of trash cans and hire the DOE Fund to reguarly bag the contents, the sanitation dept will throw all those bags into a truck. It will also step up enforcement (aka fines) in an area.

However, the dept will not come more frequently to empty its cans on your commercial strip more often than other strips of the same size (no matter how often they get filled), OR spend lots of hours emptying cans that your association bought.

whynot_31

This article touches on the issue nicely:

http://streetsblog.net/2013/11/22/the-gentrification-paradox/

whynot_31

whynot_31

whynot_31

This is the city's way of saying, "we are not going to do more than we are already doing":

whynot_31

It isn't hard to imagine the following:

"Fine. We will hire the Doe Fund to do some work, so you people stop telling us your streets are dirty.

The Doe Fund is far more cost efficient than hiring people with permanent titles, and union benefits"


http://nypost.com/2014/06/24/city-council-oks-3-5-million-for-extra-neighborhood-cleaning/