NW Crown Heights/Rogers, safe for female students?

amomof4

Hello. I have a 20 year old daughter who is looking at some places on Rogers (Prospect Pl, Park Pl, Sterling area). She would be sharing with 3 other young women all early to mid 20's. They need to rent a place soon and have found reasonably priced and decent options there. They've walked around the neighborhood during the day and at night and all said they feel pretty comfortable with it. But, the crime stats seem pretty high and I'm wondering if this is a safe area for them.

Two have lived in other areas of NYC and two, including my daughter, are new to the city. She will be a student at a college in Manhattan and is required to dress "business casual" for school (actually has very little money or possessions but because of wardrobe requirements may appear to be more well off).

I'd appreciate honest feedback on

1.) general safety of this part of Crown Heights esp. for young single women

2.) safety of walking home from the subway at night(would most likely come down Park Pl from the stop there since it's closer or could get off at Franklin/Eastern and walk down to Rogers if that's safer)

3.) Any general safety tips (esp. for gals from the burbs and new to the city) and crime hot spots in Crown Heights to avoid

Thanks so much in advance for your time and advice!

cremate

My honest opinion: No way in hell.

Check out Sunset park (or even Borough park) or somewhere in South Brooklyn (Bensonhurst, Dyker Heights or Bay ridge come to mind). These are all cheap (comparatively) and some of safest areas in Brooklyn.

Bay Ridge also has the added bonus of having a ton of great bars and restaurants. To note, South Brooklyn will have about a 45-60 minute commute to the city but is worth it for safety IMO.

epiclylaterd

I live on Park Pl and Rogers. Have not had a problem since being here. I don't know if ANY area in New York City is "safe." I think the theme is the same as all the other "is it safe" threads. If they've taken the walk day and night then that's a good way to get an idea of the area. With that said, it's NYC and sketchy things can happen anywhere. But in the immediate area of Park/Rogers, I've felt safe (and welcome). My girlfriend has had one run in with a drunk on Franklin/Atlantic at 1am that tried to cat call her but that's it. You get it anywhere, it's NYC. Overall, a good area that I'm happy to be a part of.

eastbloc

Rogers at Prospect/Park/Sterling is a nice area, and getting nicer every day. I would have no qualms about it at all.

Cremate probably needs to get out more, and/or consider getting a script for some lorazepam.

vaportrail

Cremate, have you been around the area in question? There are many, many people that are doing the exact same thing as the OP's daughter is considering and more are coming every month.

Recommending that someone not live there and that they live in an area where they will have little in common with their neighbors is a bit irresponsible.

I'm sure there are plenty of college age folks in Bensonhurst, Bay Ridge, Dyker Heights, and Borough Park, but I doubt there are many of them moving there for a roommate situation. I can think of no other place as alienating as Borough Park for a 20 year old gal living with roommates.

And OP, yes, I've lived around Nostrand and St. Johns for 5 years and have never had a problem. Granted I don't stumble around drunk at 4 am, but IMO you're asking for trouble doing that anywhere.

msboombastic

I've lived at Park Place & Rogers for two years now, and love the area. If she keeps her wits about her, she should have no problems. As others have said on this and similar threads, you need to use common sense in the City, no matter which area you're in. This includes, for me, not pulling out my phone or iPod when walking home from the subway, being alert to my surroundings, walking with purpose, etc.

adobogado

Hi my name is Big Nasty Nate. I've been to jail so I'm a tuff guy. I live in the area and am firends with most of the thugs who are just like me. If you want I can walk your sweet girl home every night.

joking, most people who are new to the city have no idea how to be aware of their surroundings and how not to be targets. First lesson that I ever learned was make eye contact (not stare and make googly eyes, but just enough to make sure they know you saw their face)

adobogado

Also get off on franklin on the 4/5 and walk up franklin - usually many cops protecting the hipsters

tateinbk

My only hesitation in going along with saying it's no problem is the fact that your daughter and another are have not lived in NYC before. I would also suggest she walk along Franklin rather than Rogers. While she gets used to the area feel free to urge her to take cabs if she is feeling unsafe. If she walks around fearfully clutching her purse or alternately flashing an iPhone she may be open to harassment or robbery. Maybe.

I just tend to think walking with confidence, keeping valuables away, and getting to know your neighbors are your best bets in any area. However, if she's never lived here before, it may take a little while to acquire all that. If she doesn't know about it yet, make sure you tell her about Right Rides a non-for profit free ride home on late Friday and Saturday nights.

jarvis

The real question is, how is she going to feel? If she's going to be looking over her shoulder while she's coming home every night and feeling paranoid, then I don't think it's worth it. It's a vibrant and dynamic area, but It is indeed a high crime area ... and having your wits about you, while great advice, is definitely not a guarantee of safety. Chances are she'll be fine, but you know your daughter - depends on her temperament.. it sucks to live somewhere where you don't feel safe.

I am a NYC native and have lived in the neighborhood since the 90s. Would I walk around Rogers in the area you're talking about by myself at night? Probably, but only while carrying very little with me, and I'd be walking quickly and with a specific destination. Might sound lame, but that's the truth.. As much as I love Pros. and Crown Heights, there are much safer neighborhoods in Brooklyn.

Number one tip: do not talk or text on the phone while you're walking at night. Especially if you have an iPhone.. iphone jacking is the thing that happens the most frequently and often leads to your other stuff getting jacked.

amomof4

cremate said:

My honest opinion: No way in hell.

Cremate : Can you elaborate on why you would say that? Thanks.

eastbloc

It's just not an issue for most residents. Yes, muggings happen, especially when people put themselves in situations that makes them easy, but it happens at the same rate (if not more so) in Prospect Heights proper as in whatever label you want to ascribe to the developing regions in Crown Heights North.

Visit the Prospect Heights forum here, and you see the same fears of being mugged, if not more so. Maybe that's because people don't expect it to happen there, but nonetheless Prospect Heights is routinely labeled as one of the most desirable neighborhoods in New York City.

As a dog-running resident who ventures into all areas, I feel I can safely define boundaries for people who want to do normal things without feeling that they are intruding on the turf of reckless individuals who still have something to prove along silly racial divides.

I've stated this before, my boundary is Utica Avenue. There, and east of there, there be dragons. To the west, anyone who doesn't have any prejudices has nothing to worry about. Rogers, Bedford, and Franklin especially have been cornerstones where young professionals have flocked to, and with very good reason. Every time I walk out to the avenues there, I'm amazed at the change just in the three years I have been here.

I would not hesitate, if I had the money, to invest in neighborhood properties to the fullest extent. My only concern for renters here is that the cost has become very high lately. Especially in terms of a share, you could live in Manhattan for the cost. But then, I've lived in Manhattan myself for many years before coming to Brooklyn. And here all of a sudden I feel like I'm surrounded by a sense of community I haven't had since emigrating to America.

Even MHA won't scare me away from this place.

amomof4

Thanks for all the comments and tips folks. Keep 'em coming!

Epiclylaterd and MsBoombastic - sounds like you might be neighbors, great to hear the perspective of people who live on/near where she is looking. My concern isn't so much with the immediate neighborhood as much as with the distance to the nearest subway stops and her safety walking home at night. She'll probably have one evening class and won't get home till around 11:00.

Vaportrail, good to hear that there are other college aged kids living in the area. I agree that stumbling around drunk at 4 am is asking for trouble. It's unlikely she'd ever be out that late (and she doesn't drink).

amomof4

"Big Nasty Nate" - thanks for the laugh! I need it with the stress of trying to help dd navigate an apartment hunt long-distance. Thanks for the tip about making eye contact - I would have guessed to do just the opposite - but being able to ID a face makes sense.

Any idea if there are classes on learning to be "street-smart"? Maybe a self-defense class for women would cover that? I tried calling the 77th precint office to ask for input and about any crime prevention classes they may know of...called almost every # on their website and got only recordings and answering machines...any idea how to get a live person short of calling 911? (I hope that's not an indication of how responsive the police are in the area.)

amomof4

adobogado said:

Also get off on franklin on the 4/5 and walk up franklin - usually many cops protecting the hipsters

So if she walks N on Franklin she'd still need to go E on a side street to get over to Rogers, right? Is Park Place Ok for walking at night between Franklin and Rogers? What about just getting off at the Park Place stop and walking straight E or is it not as safe a subway stop as Franklin?

amomof4

tateinbk

That is a valid consideration. I think she will have a "street-smart" learning curve no matter where in NYC she lives. One of the roomates has lived in NYC all her life so should be able to help give the noobies some pointers.

How much would a cab from the Franklin stop over to Rogers/Prospect area be? She's on a very tight student budget so probably wouldn't spend the money unless she really felt unsafe. I'll have her look up the info on Right Rides. All the girls are very friendly and will probably be open to getting to know their neighbors (but that won't help much while walking home.) Is using a backpack any better/worse than using a purse?

amomof4

Jarvis,

I'm actually hoping that she will feel just enough initial uneasyness to stay on her guard. She comes from an area where people smile, say hi, make eye contact, talk to pretty much anyone (strangers or not) and really don't have to worry about crime. This will be a big adjustment.Thanks for the tip about not talking/texting. She doesn't have an Iphone -- just an older model cell phone that is worth very little but I'll warn her about not using it while walking home.

cremate

I haven't been to that specific block but I have been to Classon and to Brower park and I can't imagine in between is any nicer.

I don't want to hurt anyones feelings but if safety is of utmost concern you're not looking at the best place to live.

@eastbloc - I've been to almost every neighborhood in BK, and spent days there so I do know my way around.

@vaportrail - I agree with you on Borough park but I was merely suggesting it for safety/value. I think the subways still stay open so you can get out of there when everything closes.

newguy88

When I was looking in the area I was told not to go east of New York Ave. The area your looking at is decent. I'm a guy who is a few years older then your daughter and I don't feel unsafe in the area. But at the same time they do need to be alert and aware of what is going on. I'd recommend that they walk up Eastern Parkway as much as possible if they go bar hopping or to restaurants around the Franklin Ave area.

eastbloc

Were you mugged or accosted on Classon and in Brower Park, or did you just "feel unsafe"?

(Where's MHA when you need him?)

If safety is of such utmost concern, one should live in a gated compound with armed guards posted at the gate. This is New York City, not Disneyland.

And are you saying crime doesn't happen in Sunset Park? Aren't there a bunch of rapists on the loose there?

eastbloc

newguy88 said:

When I was looking in the area I was told not to go west of New York Ave. The area your looking at is decent. I'm a guy who is a few years older then your daughter and I don't feel unsafe in the area. But at the same time they do need to be alert and aware of what is going on. I'd recommend that they walk up Eastern Parkway as much as possible if they go bar hopping or to restaurants around the Franklin Ave area.

You mean east of New York Ave. And I think Brooklyn Ave is nice, too, but a bit of a hoof from the train.

homeowner

Also, Borough Park may not be such a welcoming area for a young single woman. The Hassidic community has been known to take issue with the attire of young female goyim that they feel is risque. Plenty of examples in Williamsburg of folks getting harrassed.

bkchickie

I would think that your daughter would have a hard time affording anything further west--even as a share. I also have a hunch, based on my own building, that lots of co-ops in expensified areas are no longer allowing rentals to those under 21. We had a problem with young residents (who came with stellar recommendations) who didn't understand that no everyone keeps a student schedule.

This part of Brooklyn is changing by the month, in my opinion. When I moved to Prospect Heights five years ago I thought the edge of gentrification (and thus, expensification) was Vanderbilt Ave. Now, I think it's Franklin. Your daughter is going to be a block east of Franklin. There's constant foot traffic on Franklin.

All along, my personal no-go zone was east of Utica Ave. This is several blocks west of that. I think she'll be fine. Not, blase, wear-your-heaphones-while-whipping-out-the-iPhone4S-to-text-the-BFF, fine, but that's nowhere in Brooklyn.

Also, may I just add, if I, as a 20 year old, found out that my mom was posting on message boards asking about my safety--and not trusting my own judgement as a young adult--I would have been furious. Deep breaths, mom, your daughter is going to be fine.

adobogado

advice tip #2, be friendly and polite with the older folks who live in your neighborhood (post retirement age). If you see an old lady every morning walking her dog or fixing her plants, say good morning. The people who know everyone in the neighborhood and the happenings on the block will keep an eye out for that nice young girl who says high every morning.

This is why I prefer Brooklyn to Manahattan. Twice a nieghbor who I only met afterwards saved me from a ticket, when my pregnant wife could not move the car in time. He knew who we were and which car was ours and told the cop the car was his and he was about to move it, then came and told my wife to move the car before the cop came back.

Point is while the "dark streets" might seem scary, the knucklehead teens hanging on the corner who you are scared of, might be more scared of their grandma. So make friends with the grandma.

cool the kid

cremate said:

I don't want to hurt anyones feelings but if safety is of utmost concern you're not looking at the best place to live.

Obviously one can be too safety focused, but on the flip side if your place is getting robbed, people are getting shot + held up at gunpoint etc it doesn't matter how many "cool bars" a neighborhood has.

That said, the area the OP is looking at is probably fine. Good indicator of how good a place is is how much its area can command in rent, especially for a 2-3 bedroom

3 BR at the west end of EP is like 3000. 3 BR around Ralph is like 1500. To me that says it all

bkchickie

adobogado said:

advice tip #2, be friendly and polite with the older folks who live in your neighborhood (post retirement age). If you see an old lady every morning walking her dog or fixing her plants, say good morning. The people who know everyone in the neighborhood and the happenings on the block will keep an eye out for that nice young girl who says high every morning.

Seconding this advice. Get on "good morning" terms with the people you regularly see out on the sidewalks and any of the supers you regularly see around your block.

Additionally, get on good terms with the older people you see in your building. They are around *all* the time. They see everything and know everything that's happening in the neighborhood.

Jane Jacobs called it "eyes on the street."

amy sara clark

I cover the crime in the area up to Bedford (Rodgers is one block east. It's a lovely, safe area during the day, but from what I've seen after about 11 p.m. there have been a lot of muggings, many violent (though most of the violent ones have affected men).

If your daughter can avoid walking alone after 11 p.m. she should be fine. There is also a volunteer organization called the Brooklyn Bike Patrol that can escort her home every night after 8 p.m.

You can see all the recent crimes that have police reports at the link below, on Prospect Heights Patch (up until about 10 days ago, there's a lag getting the reports). But remember, I haven't covered any crime East of Bedford.

http://prospectheights.patch.com/columns/police-blotter-ac19d696

the psycho-ologist

homeowner said:

Also, Borough Park may not be such a welcoming area for a young single woman. The Hassidic community has been known to take issue with the attire of young female goyim that they feel is risque. Plenty of examples in Williamsburg of folks getting harrassed.

NOT TRUE!

I live on the border of Sunset Park and Borough Park, and go into Borough park all the time for shopping, since I am closer to their shopping areas. I have never felt reviled.

I also endorse Sunset Park and Borough Park. I am a young female and the express train I am near gets me to all my hot spots. When I go out, I wear gothic gear. Think Nine Inch Nails, The Cure and Marilyn Manson type clothing.

No, there is nothing to do IN the neighborhood, but I have a big, cheap, and beautiful, apartment in a VERY safe and quiet neighborhood. I can still enjoy the night life in other parts of the city.

I think people get caught up in the wave of young & hip people moving into neighborhoods and don't objectively look at the quality and price of the neighborhoods when making their choice. I guess that is better for people like me who value safety and low cost, and will gladly live in an overlooked neighborhood in a big bright sunny place, rather than feel sketchy so that I can say I live around a bunch of other trend setter pioneer college students.

cool the kid

I once hooked up with a chick whose first question to me was "so what stop on the L do you live off"

People take that shit serious

homeowner

The Psycho-ologist said:

NOT TRUE!

I live on the border of Sunset Park and Borough Park, and go into Borough park all the time for shopping, since I am closer to their shopping areas. I have never felt reviled.

I also endorse Sunset Park and Borough Park. I am a young female and the express train I am near gets me to all my hot spots. When I go out, I wear gothic gear. Think Nine Inch Nails, The Cure and Marilyn Manson type clothing.

No, there is nothing to do IN the neighborhood, but I have a big, cheap, and beautiful, apartment in a VERY safe and quiet neighborhood. I can still enjoy the night life in other parts of the city.

I think people get caught up in the wave of young & hip people moving into neighborhoods and don't objectively look at the quality and price of the neighborhoods when making their choice. I guess that is better for people like me who value safety and low cost, and will gladly live in an overlooked neighborhood in a big bright sunny place, rather than feel sketchy so that I can say I live around a bunch of other trend setter pioneer college students.

I didn't make this up...

amomof4

eastbloc said:

As a dog-running resident who ventures into all areas, I feel I can safely define boundaries for people who want to do normal things without feeling that they are intruding on the turf of reckless individuals who still have something to prove along silly racial divides.

I've stated this before, my boundary is Utica Avenue. There, and east of there, there be dragons. To the west, anyone who doesn't have any prejudices has nothing to worry about. Rogers, Bedford, and Franklin especially have been cornerstones where young professionals have flocked to, and with very good reason. Every time I walk out to the avenues there, I'm amazed at the change just in the three years I have been here.

Even MHA won't scare me away from this place.

@Eastbloc,

Thanks for your insights on the neighborhood.

Honestly, we wouldn't want her going as far East as Utica.I keep hearing positive things about Franklin and west of there but keep hearing a lot of very negative things about the eastern part of CH. My husband was actually with the girls when they were apartment hunting in CH on a couple different days and then made a trip with them at around midnight to check out the neighborhood at night. His impressions were that the Rogers/Bedford/Franklin area seemed fine - lots of people out and about jogging, walking the dog, etc. but that when they walked toward the east it seemed to start changing after Nostrand.So he advised them to stay west of there.

I don't think any of them have too many prejudices -- the 4 roomies are of 3 different races and will probably be learning a lot about each other's backgrounds just living together. Hmmm...what is MHA and why should they be scared of it?