Vegetarian restaurants

isa

I'm planning on opening a veggie restaurant in the next 6 months or so and I thought I'd do a little free focus group here. My plan is to have a seasonal menu, everything homemade (no store bought meat analog items - we will even make out own tofu and pasta) with a focus on fresh seasonal ingredients. I am wondering a few things:
1- For the omnivores: would you patronize a vegetarian restaurant? How about a vegan restaurant?
2- What are your favorite veg restaurants and why?

I feel secure that if our service is great and if the food is awesome we will be a success, just looking for a little input from the neighborhood.

emily

Embarrassing confession corner: I lived directly upstairs from Caravan of Dreams, on 6th St. in Manhattan, which I gather is fairly well known, for more than a year, and never went in the place once. :oops:

I would probably patronize a vegetarian restaurant if I knew the person who owned/operated it it.

I will keep thinking about this...

medusa

As the omnivore spouse of a vegetarian, I would love to see a great vegetarian restauraunt here. I would definately support it.

Great veggie restaurants that come to mind: the indian kosher vegetarians of Curry Hill (would it be too much to make your place kosher? that could bring in extra business), Angelica Kitchen. In England, I used to go to two places, one called Food for Friends and the other Cranks which both had hearty veggie food that was very flavorful.

stacey

First of all Congrats and Good luck.

Second - Im not too sure if I know the difference between vegan and vegetarian -

I will definitely patronize the store. What tends to happen with me is that I usually do not have time to cook a full meal when I get home after work so I usually cook my meat at home and purchase my sides before I get home.

isa

stacey wrote:
Second - Im not too sure if I know the difference between vegan and vegetarian -

Oh, oops - vegan is basically no dairy or eggs in addition to no meat.

t-fal

i'm a vegetarian, and i rarely patronize veggie restaurants. probably because i dine frequently with non-veggies. but also, i am partial to my own style of veggie cooking, i am the queen of making decent meat substitutes.

the ones i like going to include pukk, the counter, natural mystic, & vp.

i would totally go if you had homemade tofu, as a rule i hate tofu, but homemade tofu is gorgeous! you know what else, i want a place that serves a kickass veggie burger, preferably one with black beans or mushrooms or something in it. will you have cheese? if not serve it with carmelised onions, on a toasted bun. i also like gluten occaisonally, when done very crispy like. back in my vegan days, my friend used to make really good fake buffalo wings out of crispy cooked gluten, brushed with franks red-hot sauce stirred into melted soy margarine.

i like fresh veggies (ugh, remember being thoroughly dissappointed in the country life restaurant in boston...i mean they served generic frozen veggies...totally unacceptable.) lots of spice, and good texture, nothing cooked to death or anything.

good luck with the business! will this be in prospect heights?

isa

t-fal wrote:
good luck with the business! will this be in prospect heights?

Thanks! Well it's slim pickins in PH storefronts these days so I'm not sure - either here or 5th ave in Punk Slope.

medusa

Surely the Muddy Waters or Home Heating Oil spaces will be available soon.

jose

I'd check out the restaurant.

rossmelanie

If you wouldn't mind some menu suggestions, my all time favorite veggie restaurants are Cafe Flora in Seattle (www.cafeflora.com), Millennium in San Fran (www.millenniumrestaurant.com) and Sublime in Ft Lauderdale (www.sublimeveg.com). One thing I am very tired of is Asian-flair vegetarian food. One or two dishes is fine, but great dishes can be made in other styles.

I'm also trying to convert my boyfriend, so the more veg restaurants in the neighborhood, the better!

Best of luck to you... let us know when you open!

daveb

I'm not vegetarian but I'm not ashamed to admit (gulp, here goes...) that the best lasagna I ever had was vegan. The cheese was substituted with brewer's yeast. It was delicious insanity. I practically peed, right there on the restaurant floor. Thank god for diapers.

carnivore

I would definitely give it a try. Despite my DH persona, I am omnivorous, and have frequented vegetarian restaurants in the past. In general, I find that I like vegetarian food best when it doesn't try to be a meat substitute. I like traditional vegetarian cuisines like South Indian, and vegetarian dishes in the Middle Eastern, Japanese or Korean tradition. Vegetarian fake meat dishes always seem less successful to me.
I'm looking forward to trying your place! Good luck- it's a tough business.

unterberg

I'm a vegetarian and I'll definitely be there! One of my low-key fav's is Kate's Joint in the East Village....it seems to be the one place I can take my non-veg. friends and not have to worry about them complaining about not being able to eat meat. Favorite (easy) appetizer - the (un)buffalo wings

Another veg. restaurant I really like is Candle Cafe--they seem to do the seasonal dishes as well (I could be wrong). Its one of the only reasons I'll travel to the UES.....

emily

I was thinking about this on the subway ('cos I was hungry ) and reflecting on other vegetarian restaurants I've been to. Usually, the thing I like least about them is that they have a certain food "aesthetic" that I, as a non-vegetarian, don't find very appealing. That is to say, I'm happy to eat dishes that don't contain meat at non-vegetarian restaurants (e.g. vegetable soups, salads, pasta dishes, etc.) but at vegetarian restaurants there's often stuff like wheat gluten (do I have this name right?), tortured attempts to reproduce meat dishes, and stuff that's just too "crunchy" for me--it's like there's nothing very familiar-feeling on the menu. Now, you have to take this with a grain of salt, because I'm a notoriously picky eater. But I would love to go to a vegetarian restaurant where I could just get pea soup and ravioli with butter and sage, you know?

Also:

Medusa wrote: As the omnivore spouse of a vegetarian, I would love to see a great vegetarian restauraunt here. I would definately support it.

As as omnivore who semi-regularly goes out to dinner with Medusa and her spouse, I would also support it!

ETA: When I lived in New Haven, I used to really like Claire's.

isa

EmilyM wrote: But I would love to go to a vegetarian restaurant where I could just get pea soup and ravioli with butter and sage, you know?

Heard.

carnivore

EmilyM wrote: ...but at vegetarian restaurants there's often stuff like wheat gluten (do I have this name right?), tortured attempts to reproduce meat dishes, and stuff that's just too "crunchy" for me...
... But I would love to go to a vegetarian restaurant where I could just get pea soup and ravioli with butter and sage, you know?

Agreed 100%. This is basically what I was trying to get at, but I maybe got hung up on the ethnicity issue. Basically vegetarian food can be delicious, but I think most meat-eaters get turned off by imitation meat (we'd rather have the real thing). If you want to include omnivores in your clientele, you can't have everything be centered on tofu, gluten and seitan (not that I'm suggesting that you would have done that).

medusa

Isa:
What kind of price point are we talking about? Would I be able to east there once a week? Would it (could it?) be as cheap as Indian or Mexican? (I can't imagine it could be...)

The places that I loved in England were kind of salad-bar like in that you went up to the counter to order (although this would not be necessary) and could order like 3 or 4 dishes together (rather like Mama's the in the East Village). The dishes were usually salad-like, but I think there were lasagnas and other stuff. I always like places where it's possibel for me to try several things at once (like Mezze plates or Panchan in Korean places).

What kind of asthetic are you envisioning?

isa

I am not sure on the pricing yet - it depends on if we decide to go 100% organic or not. I would like to keep entrees between 8-12 dollars. The atmosphere will be comfortable - probably vintage-y (but not kitschy) since that is what my apartment is like. Not too bright, hopefully lots of wood and brick, no crappy plastic things or flourescent colors. My one definite vision is big comfortable seats and booths. None of those little flimsy chairs you can hardly sit you butt down in. It will be table service though, I can appreciate places like Mama's but I don't like long lines.

11238

It is amazing how much more expensive organic food is. My cousin just graduated a school that specializes in organic catering. Her new career is cooking meals for these rich Red Bank, NJ people for $400 a week (10 meals).... is that crazy or what? I would rather go out every night.

I saw her a few weeks ago and she was telling me all about organic food. At first, I was very skeptical but then I started reading labels on the food I eat and I was mortified with all the chemicals added. I started cutting back on some things (white bread, Dannon yogurt, peanut butter, etc). I have lost a little weight but I think its more in my head. Fresh Direct has a pretty good selection of organic food. I also went into that "Back to the Land" store in Park Slope. It was EXPENSIVE. A 1/2 gallon of organic orange juice was $6.99. OUCH!

Anyway, I would DEFINITELY frequent your restaurant, organic or not. I admire someone starting their own business! Good luck!

anonymous

I agree with the comments that you should retain flavors that are familiar to non-veg. people. I think the new and unusual flavors are what turn me off from many veg. rests.

As for vegan or not, I would give the option without forcing it, I think if you were 100% vegan it would hurt your business.

For a past case study on what not to do, think of East West that was shortly on 7th Ave btwn 14th and 15th streets in the space where Max and Moritz and Paradou used to be. While it wasn't 100% veg (they had a fish option) just about everything had ingredients that did not appeal to the average carnivore. Lots of tofu, glutten, dairy substitutes etc. I'm pretty adventurous but I couldn't get into anything they served.

I went once and didn't go back. I don't think anyone else did either since they were only open for about 6 months.

I would love to have a place that is vegetarian but that I, as a carnivore, would like.

As for location, it would be great if you opened on Washington Ave.

Good luck!

susan

I would definitely eat at your vegan restaurant, Isa. It would be nice to have more healthy choices available, especially if you were in PH. Usually, when we're being lazy (which is quite often), we end up eating something fried, greasy and beefy.

Having been raised vegetarian (not vegan), we always had a big garden and lots of stuff made from tofu (tofu bacon, tofu veal parmesan, tofu burgers, you name it). I do find myself craving my childhood memories of carob chip cookies and even - horror of a 10 year old's horrors - stuffed eggplant or buckwheat pancakes with blackstrap molasses. My Mom used to make all of our bread, too - in coffee cans. I was the only kid in school with round brown organic pb & honey sandwhiches. (My mouth is dry just thinking about them)

If you did some really nice homemade desserts, that would be great too! Like berry or apple crumbles, baked cinnamon fruit, ZUCCHINI BREAD!

(But I still love the beef!!!)

daveb

I second the zucchini bread. I haven't seen it for sale since I moved to NY years ago. It's necessary. Save NYC from spiritual and moral disaster - feed us zucchini bread!

stuart

Please do open a vegetarian/vegan restaurant in Prospect Heights (not 5th Ave/Slope). I have at least a hundred vegetarian or vegan friends from all over the world stay in the neighborhood every year. I promise to bring them all.

Also, my advice is not to attempt to cater to the meat eaters who are dragged along by their hippie friends. The stricter/more-organic-only the restaurant the better the chance of a core constituency of diners developing. Since vegans tend to be bit cultish about where they eat, you're better off cultivating the cult.

arielbl

A strict organic/vegan restaurant may indeed attract a group of hardcore, loyal followers, but I think its always good to have a few options for the less-hardcore. The narrower your cuisine, the narrower the group of people you'll attract. I think you should have at least a few more familar/accessible dishes on the menu (such as ravioli and lasagna, which everyone eats, carnivorous or vegetarian), even if it is a vegetarian restaurant, for the same reasons most non-vegetarian restaurants have at least a few vegetarian options.

anonymous

Isa,

So glad to here that you are considering opening a restaurant. I would definitely patronize a vegetarian restaurant. I think that a a vegan restaurant would be too specialized and would not attract enough customers. I think a better compromise would be to have some vegan options on the menu rather than an all vegan menu. Some of my favorite vegetarian restaurant is Millenium in San Francisco because of their use of seasonal ingredients and inventive recipes. Of course Millenium is a high-end restaurant and it sounds like you are planning a more casual place.

As for location, while I live in and love PH I think you'll have better luck finding an appropriate storefront as well as more foot traffic if you were to locate on 5th Avenue in Park Slope.

Best of luck

medusa

I think Biscuit's storefront is available.

"BBQ failure becomes vegan delight!"

sje

Storefronts on 5th ave in PS are just as hard, if not harder to find, as well as twice or more expensive than PH. I looked for close to 2 years before I found my Vanderbilt ave gem. Wish you would consider PH, as 5th ave has hundreds of rest already.

Washington ave might be your ticket. as it's centrally located, and rents are still very affordable.

Please don't do 100% vegan, I think it's too specialized. I remember the great guys from Green Paradise just hit the skids in the winter becase none of the food was cooked, and no-one wanted cool, raw food in freezing weather. They had a core following, but it wasn't enough.

anonymous

please, please, please do open a vegetarian restaurant in prospect heights! i live with stuart, above, and can testify to his 100 veg. friends who will come! our favorite vegetarian places in the city are probably: the greens, in brooklyn heights - mmmm, big boat; red bamboo - their buffalo wings are top-notch!; foodswings, for a quick burger; angelica kitchen - if this is what you're considering, with all organics and delicious comfort food (have you ever had the open-face tempeh sandwich?!) then I CAN PROMISE WE'D EAT IN YOUR RESTAURANT EVERY DAMN DAY! we also eat a lot of italian, indian, and thai.

seriously, i'm continuously struck by number of vegetarians/vegans encountered in this part of brooklyn...you know, random suit-wearing guy buying soy cream and boca burgers at natural land. this would be such a welcome addition!

two suggestions: 1) try to do a little reaching out, if you really want more info, to the veg. community here - maybe flyer/advertise/poll at places like natural land, the co-op, vegetarian palate, etc. it doesn't seem like many people on dailyheights really have any useful input when it comes to vegetarianism! 2) serve vegan breakfast/brunch on weekends! we tried to go to hibicus cafe the other week, and the food was fine, but it took seriously 25 minutes for the one woman behidn the counter to make sandwiches, and they were out of everything we wanted! some tofu scramble, soy sausage, vegan pancakes - people would come from all around!

rita

hi isa,

me: omnivore. live in PHeights. 9 out of 10 eating out experiences in brooklyn are on 5th ave. don't think twice about making the hike, because they are some of my favorite restaurants.

would definitely check out a veg restaurant... less about the veg part, more about fresh and healthy food. vegan might be a little tougher for me to get my foot in the door. i like me some real cheese on my pasta. and butter. i like butter a lot.

agree with the folks who said "i don't like meat substitutes," with one BIG exception...

http://18arhans.com/

this place makes amazing kung pao mock chicken. it rocks. other dishes are quite tasty as well. seriously. and i generally am not a fan of tofu, gluten, or soy anything. much less those that try to taste like meat... but i'm telling you, it's good shit. (i'm not entirely convinced on how healthy it is, by the way, but it's served with healthy sides)

good luck!!

t-fal

ooh will this place have a liquor license? because brunch would be a fantastic idea!

i second what people say about some of the wacky things that are done in vegetarian cooking that are rather non appealing to the omnivorous crowd. sometimes you just want decent ravioli with a side of broccoli saltate. if you could do some decent homemade gnocchi (light and pillowy, not tough and dense), i would be there regularly. its a bit of a hassle going all the way out to little frankies for my fresh gnocchi fix.

isa

I make great gnocchi infact!