NW corner of Franklin & Union: Crow Bar

whynot_31

I actually do not believe the bar has benefitted or lost much as a result of this controversy.

I believe its patrons are unaware of jabberings of the internet, and/or do not believe that having a beer at a local pub changes much in the world.

The bar is about as popular as the one across the street, Brooklyn Union One.  

Brooklyneya

I walk by it daily to the train and have noticed a clear shift in patrons. The first few days before protesting and drama started, there were definitely a LOT more white people there. Now I imagine they don't want to look racist don't so they avoid it, hence tipping the ratio to mostly people of color.

whynot_31

It isn't unusual for a bar (or other venue) to be integrated its first few days, and then become homogeneous.   

Even venues that put considerable effort into attracting specific crowds sometimes end up "being chosen" by demographics they did not expect.

Wise venues roll with it, and decide that the color they seek most is green.       

Related reading:  https://www.amazon.com/Black-Kids-Sitting-Together-Cafeteria/dp/0465083617

 

whynot_31

And, then, without much fanfare, the bar's names was changed.

https://twitter.com/AndrewPaulJoyce/status/841420786342719488

whynot_31

http://gothamist.com/2017/03/14/crown_heights_crow_bar.php

yesbrooklyn

Really don't think this guy meant any harm.  He recognizes he should just bury the beef and move on.

I think there should be different words for different kinds of racism.  Being ignorant because you simply don't know yet still manage to offend people is a different type of racism that woefully treating people different because of their race.

Very very white places where no one ever really has met a black person and people talk about other races in stereotypes is a different type of racism.  Wouldn't it be easier to talk about this stuff in a calm, less finger-pointy way, if we had different names for different types of racism?

BryceTC

I don't think so. It's important to address racism in all of it's forms by the same term as to not belittle the significance of said racism. Whether it comes from a place of ignorance or one of pure hate, it needs to be addressed. These days, everyone seems to be under the impression that racism is only when a crime is committed against person of color and the perpetrator explicitly states that they did it because they were a person of color. That is simply not the case. Racism exists in many forms and one of the most common is microagressions.

An example is that my aunt went to WalMart and a lady say that the back of her car had a Boston College sticker. The lady asked my aunt who goes to Boston College, to which my aunt responded "My nephew." Then the lady asked her "What sport does he play?" This question would fly over most people's head but my aunt became instantly outraged because as a Black person, she felt that the woman only asked her this because the only way to get into a college like that was to be good at sports. Now it may or may not have been the lady's intention to offend my aunt but impact is greater than intent. It's important to understand how certain things can be perceived as racist even when it wasn't meant to be.

Sorry for derailing this thread.

whynot_31

My only request is that if we get everyone to agree on what constitutes racism, that Brooklynian.com get the credit.

yesbrooklyn

I don't mean to belittle racism at all.  It's important to talk about, is all I'm trying to say.  This story about the woman in the parking lot - ugh.  I would have been offended too.  Racism is complex and I think more nuanced vocabulary to describe it would be helpful for some people to recognize their own biases.  

The term you used - microaggressions - gets exactly at my point.  I've never heard word that before to describe something like the Walmart scenario but yeah, sounds about right.  That was a totally aggressive thing to say, but she had no idea and meanwhile your aunt is just stewing, unable to really call her out.  Would you say that the bar owner's choice of bar name was a microaggression?   

In other words, do you think, if the bar owner truly didn't know any historical context for the word "Crow" and named the bar "Crow Bar" because he knew part of the neighborhood was called Crow Hill, was he being racist, and if so is this the same type of racism of the woman in the parking lot?  Or would you say the fact that are different or not different even matter?  

BryceTC

The bar owner's choice to name it Crow Bar was definitely just ignorance and tone-deafness as opposed to racism in my opinion. I hesitate to call it racism since I don't know the history behind the naming of Crow Hill. We know there was historically a Black population in this general area by Weeksville, but I don't know if that has anything to do with the naming of it. While he thought it was cool to name it after the old name of the neighborhood, it's easy to see how Crow Bar can be misinterpreted as something potentially racist. A smarter decision would have been to name it Crow Hill Bar instead so that he didn't draw any confusion.

Crow Hill Crossfit has been in the area for a little while now and never drew any outrage with regard to its name.

whynot_31

I'll keep my analysis to economics.

This bar may have opened a little too early.   I am curious to see whether it can survive until its customer base grows in 2019.

I think some people's opposition to it's past name have little to do with its past and present struggles to establish a large, loyal customer base. 

tsarina

So is the word crow "off limits" to use because someone could be offended? Wont somebody mention that to the nice ladies who run the Crow hill Block assoc.? Didnt there used to be a crow bar in the city? Is that one racist too? (Oh I guess it was a gay bar, who will that offend?)

dac545

Bar Corvo.  Corvo=Crow in Italian.  

http://crowhillcommunity.org

http://www.crowhilldevelopment.com - the group renovating the Nassau Brewery amongst other projects

Not sure I understand why Crow Bar got the entire brunt of the angriness.  Probably because the name of the business was in English and is the type of entity that people talk about.  

Marco555

Take the space away and you've got an entirely new meaning... a construction themed bar could be interesting in an area with lots of it!

uglyfloorlamp

Marco555 said:

Take the space away and you've got an entirely new meaning... a construction themed bar could be interesting in an area with lots of it!

A construction themed blue collar gay bar sounds exactly like what this neighborhood has been missing though

tsarina

amen

whynot_31

I hope it would have a jukebox

tsarina

ogh dear! now I am seriously offended!!!

whynot_31

Maybe the occasional movie night?

dmiami2

dac545 said:

Bar Corvo.  Corvo=Crow in Italian.  

http://crowhillcommunity.org

http://www.crowhilldevelopment.com - the group renovating the Nassau Brewery amongst other projects

Not sure I understand why Crow Bar got the entire brunt of the angriness.  Probably because the name of the business was in English and is the type of entity that people talk about.  

Bar Corvo changed their name to Crownside I believe.    

whynot_31

yup.

https://www.yelp.com/biz/crownside-brooklyn