Problems

move with grace

It's definitely harder to get together for community board meetings in working class neighborhoods... Fliers or volunteers would help for those who don't frequent message boards.

remi_ch

I think we need more internet presence. Its hard for me to make it to a seven PM meeting during the week.
Right now I hop around between this site, Brownstoner, Clintonhillblog and SocietyforClintonHill.

sugarshoc

How about maybe people in the community do call and report things and nothing is done about it because of skin color? Or, if nothing is done the response is slow? After awhile, who wants to call when nothing is being done? I think everyone wants to live in safe neighborhoods. It's just messed up when the police decide who they will and will not listen to.

jimmylegs

okay, i must admit to my own ignorance here. i just saw this post on gothamist about 'snitching.' i can understand the black community's reluctance to work with the police considering the NYPDs reputation, but apparently in many circles it's not 'cool' to say *anything* to *anyone* about *anything* criminal (as in the case of rapper Cam'ron, who was shot and refused to help catch his attacker). so maybe that's what the OP was getting at in terms of ignoring assaults. i feel dumb for not knowing the extent of this, but i still don't agree with it. seems to me that won't help make a neighborhood any safer than talking to the cops, no matter how corrupt they may be.

http://www.gothamist.com/2007/04/20/camron_must_rea.php

anonymous

jimmylegs wrote: okay, i must admit to my own ignorance here. i just saw this post on gothamist about 'snitching.' i can understand the black community's reluctance to work with the police considering the NYPDs reputation, but apparently in many circles it's not 'cool' to say *anything* to *anyone* about *anything* criminal (as in the case of rapper Cam'ron, who was shot and refused to help catch his attacker). so maybe that's what the OP was getting at in terms of ignoring assaults. i feel dumb for not knowing the extent of this, but i still don't agree with it. seems to me that won't help make a neighborhood any safer than talking to the cops, no matter how corrupt they may be.

http://www.gothamist.com/2007/04/20/camron_must_rea.php

As within the Mafia, there's definitely a mantra on innercity streets that highly discourages snitching, even to the point of suggesting that it warrants death. Rappers espouse this in their lyris, there are all types of little proverbs and sayings on the street built around that...there was even a popular DVD released named "Stop Snitching" that showed violent retaliations on tape...but the very people who espouse this the most are the biggest snitchers....or else these jails would be empty. Confidential informants are absolutely essential to policework....they'd get nothing done without them unless they witnessed crimes themselves. The "stop snitching" campaign is an example of drug dealers influencing the streets with their philosophy in order to create a better climate for their business. They have kids out there thinking they are really defending a philosophy...and voila...1/2 their jobs are done for them. But that never stopped people from calling the police. I might not walk into a precinct to snitch, or walk over to cops at a crime scene to snitch, but like most of the community, I often tiptoed inside after a crime scene, reported it to the cops, then came back outside talking about "nobody better snitch...we could take care of this ourtselves." Don't believe the hype! If anything, the above poster is right - people get discouraged by cops choosing who they protect. Cops have a very "fuckit...let them kill each other" attitude when the victim doesn't remind them of their friends & family.

anonymous

Guvna wrote: It is nice to be important, but more important to be nice.

I hear ya! always nice, just frustrated and sad that the someone feels “that’s the way it is.” I just can’t get over that, it hurts, you know!
You can read all the articles but I live the life and the culture that you speak of pertaining to “snitching” comes from a particular lifestyle, I still believe, of a small percentage of the Black community.
Unfortunately, that’s all you hear in the media. The negative not the positive! I grew up in the projects of Harlem and I don’t know anything about the lifestyle that rappers rap about. The problem is that what you see and hear in the media, of what they say and do, becomes a general conception of the community. Don’t believe the hype! There are hardworking people in the projects, who teach their kids respectability, who send them off to college and into the world! Its twisted, the people who have done the less, those who project negativity, have become sort of the “mouthpiece” for the community. That’s why good people have to speak up!
On the point of reporting crime, I think it makes most since to approach the matter as a group. I don’t think they pay much attention to one person doing all the calling. As of yet, I have not been able to get my neighbors (nor so-call block association) to do this. And although I don’t understand the lack of “normal” patrolling, I understand that if the police don’t get any feedback from the community, how can they be informed of all the “hotspots?” Not sure how much good 311 has been, what’s the point of reporting and they tell you, “we don’t know when we will be able to get someone there.” The thing too, is that people are afraid, you are making reports against dangerous people and the people in the community knows what happens to "snitches" especially when the police are lacking, which again is why it should be a group effort, the community as a whole stating their concerns.

guvna

Bedstyliving wrote: [quote=Guvna]It is nice to be important, but more important to be nice.

I hear ya! always nice, just frustrated and sad that the someone feels “that’s the way it is.” I just can’t get over that, it hurts, you know!
You can read all the articles but I live the life and the culture that you speak of pertaining to “snitching” comes from a particular lifestyle, I still believe, of a small percentage of the Black community.
Unfortunately, that’s all you hear in the media. The negative not the positive! I grew up in the projects of Harlem and I don’t know anything about the lifestyle that rappers rap about. The problem is that what you see and hear in the media, of what they say and do, becomes a general conception of the community. Don’t believe the hype! There are hardworking people in the projects, who teach their kids respectability, who send them off to college and into the world! Its twisted, the people who have done the less, those who project negativity, have become sort of the “mouthpiece” for the community. That’s why good people have to speak up!
On the point of reporting crime, I think it makes most since to approach the matter as a group. I don’t think they pay much attention to one person doing all the calling. As of yet, I have not been able to get my neighbors (nor so-call block association) to do this. And although I don’t understand the lack of “normal” patrolling, I understand that if the police don’t get any feedback from the community, how can they be informed of all the “hotspots?” Not sure how much good 311 has been, what’s the point of reporting and they tell you, “we don’t know when we will be able to get someone there.” The thing too, is that people are afraid, you are making reports against dangerous people and the people in the community knows what happens to "snitches" especially when the police are lacking, which again is why it should be a group effort, the community as a whole stating their concerns.

I know precisely what you mean. People should not have to settle just because "that's the way it is"! Although sometimes the police can make things needlessly dificult. For instance" my mom lives in east flatbush and a known drug dealer lives on the block. cops have locked him AND his crazy wife up several times but eventually they return. from time to time they love loud music, but much louder than I can describe here! I mean REALLY loud. Mom called the cops once, and instead of going to the obvious source of the noise, they came to my mom's house to verify that she made the call!!! Stupid &%#$@ cops. Why do they need to verify the complaint when the evidence is booming down their ears before they even turn the corner? Needless to say, Mom told them to get the hell out.

I just think the police should take quality of life issues much more seriously because that can make the rest of their jobs easier, and it will empower the silent majority to participate more in the uplifting of the community.

anonymous

Subject: Real Talk: to BeenHereAWhile

I was just coming through and what I want to say to you (BHA) is that your post has been the most ignorant post that I have come across in my time in this Message Board. As an African American Woman, you embarrass me. I am ashamed by your ignorance. So what different races are coming in and wanting to make Bed-Stuy a better place to live and who want to change the motto "BED STUY DO OR DIE." That "ish" is tired and so are you for not wanting better. You aren't living in the 60's/70's/ and we damned sure ain't living in the Spike Lee era, either my brotha. Who are you to tell someone to leave and go back because you don't feel as "priviledged" maybe if you change your attitude/disposition maybe someone would be willing to make you feel priviledged, too.

limestonekid

Subject: Re: Problems

BeenHereAwhile wrote: OK People, listen. Bed-Stuy is not Park Slope, West Village, or wheatever yuppified silly-ass piece of nether nether land all you freaks came from. It was a thriving neighborhood to multitudes before any of you arrived (looking for sushi, fresh-direct). You are so amusing i almost split my gut laughing when someone expected that some bystanders who might have seen a simple assault on the street would come forward to police later to "help identify the attackers" Yeah right! Go back down your rabbit hole to Alice in Wonderland. You yuppies sure give the rest of us alot of free entertainment.

So I'm wondering whether BeenHereAwhile considers the two fellas who got whacked at a stoplight last night in Bed-Stuy as a "simple assault"?

No need for anyone to come forward on that one. I mean what person in their right mind wouldn't want a double-homicide in the neighborhood every week. That's what I call quality free entertainment.

I always thought The Jam were signing about British life in their song "That's Entertainment" but I guess it was really about Bed-Stuy.

anonymous

U will only Keep complaining. Bed Stuy will never get hood again or be unsafe. I will bet you in 2 yrs. You can't even get a 40oz. in the Stuy. Oh well oh well. If you aren't jewish - you can't hold down neighborhoods. Everyone knows that deal with it..Blame crack fiends that sell their houses for money to get a quick fix. I am Black and I went to college and I went to a 'Black' College in the hood of DC which has been gentrified.

Who cares, stop complaining. This is America - neighborhoods change. You can't help that.
And Yes - crime is bad. If you prefer a higher chance of getting shot up - I suggest you move to East NY and Brownsville..Then if those places are ever on the verge of being gentrified - You can find a new slum to live in.

I'm so friging tired of people complaining of gentrification. This is NY 'F-king' City - You deal with ish. IF a yuppie feels safe to live in the stuy and complains about options who cares. ..let him complain. Who Gives a F!!! I can care less about any neighborhood and how it changes as long as its not BAD. You should be happy.

That Shaggy person is the reason you have a supermarket instead of several bodegas. IF white ppl live in our neighborhoods - It improves your options IDIOT! You should want that. Just buy something then you won't get run out of your neighborhood. Maybe its a good thing.. Maybe one day Boys & Girls will improve education. IF your kids go to a public school - they can eventually have a shot at Harvard, Penn or Stanford.

You are so ignorant its dumb.

queencallipygos

Anonymous wrote: You are so ignorant its dumb.

I find it strange that someone who espoused an anti-Semitic sentiment is accusing US of being "ignorant."

carlton banks

i wouldn't categorize that at anti-semitic... i think it's more of a compliment. historically jewish people have been very successful in the real estate game. in nyc, they own or control a disproportionate amount of real estate relative to their % of the population... good for them. nothing "anti" about that.

and the poster is accusing the original poster (beenhereawhile) of being ignorant not "US"

jimmylegs

actually the gist there seems to be that the hardcore jewish neighborhoods like boro park and parts of s.williamsburg have been successful at keeping their neighborhoods to themselves. no outsiders really live in their specific areas, and are to date, they're pretty much the only such group to do so. of course, they've had their problems, remember the protests about the Gretsch building in williamsburg? they did their best ot keep the rich folks out, but maybe even they're starting to lose their grip on their neighborhoods.

carlton banks

i would disagree... hardcore jewish neighborhoods go through the same population shifts. they may hold on to their buildings a little longer due to the fact their community is close knit, but eventually they sell. gentrification is a function of people being priced out of a neighborhood and identifying a new one. this is nyc and money talks... newcomers move up the socioeconomic ladder, more newcomers move in... williamsburg is a great example.

regardless of the gist i don't think the statement, "jewish people hold down their neighborhoods" is anti-semitic.

queencallipygos

"Jewish people hold down neighborhoods" is a little too close to the "money-grubbing Jews" stereotype for my liking. I'll grant you that I may be a little sensitive, though.

carlton banks

holding down your neighborhood is a good thing... in hasidic neighborhoods the fact they hold on to properties that they could make a mint selling actually contradicts the stereotype. anyone in ny real estate will make a mint eventually but that's beyond the point. just because someone who isn't jewish puts the word in a sentence doesn't make it racist but i feel you. i'm sensitive to comments regarding black people (many of which are not well thought out).

sidenote... it is my dream to hear the term "money-grubbing blacks" that's one stereotype i'd willingly accept... "shake them haters off" and appreciate the fact many jewish people are financially successful.

remi_ch

"money-grubbing" is just a more derogatory instance of "have all the money"- which is not at odds with "holding down a neighborhood"