south side of Eastern Pkwy?

anonymous

I noticed alot of posts about the north side of Eastern Pkwy or northern Crown Heights. Can anyone share their thoughts about the nabe on the other side of the Parkway, particularly around Rogers Ave and Montgomery street?
Am looking at an apt. there, and am wondering about the stores, safety, subways, etc. Realtor is telling me its PLG, but it looks like CH on the map to me.
Many thanks in advance for any info!

anonymous

It's definitely not PLG...it's southern Crown Heights. And the area is a bit iffy if you're not used to that sort of area. I'm a black male, and can look pretty urban...and I wouldn't live there if I didn't have to. There's no doubt that it is on the come up like the rest of CH, but the ride will be a bumpy one...and it will take a little longer than northern CH. The area's residents are primarily caribbean with a strong contingent of hasidic jews . As for stores, services, restaurants, etc., you'd have to walk north a few blocks or south a few blocks into PLG to get anything truly decent (unless you're charmed by the small west indian eateries in your direct hood). ESPN recently focused on this area when it ran a story on the current conditions of the Ebbets Field apartments (former Dodgers stadium which are 1 block away on Beford & Montgomery; they were recently projects and then went private)...I've attached the article for you below; it sheds light on the safety & economic conditions.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/jackie/news/story?id=2830342

Either way, its good that you're doing research beforehand b/c like the rest of the city, things can change pretty substantially from block to block. And what may appear decent on a Saturday morning can be very different that night. I had some friends who are white move into Brooklyn from the city recently to a building on President Street near the corner of Franklin Ave. They should've asked me about that block before moving to it as it is known to be notorious. Now, they realize it, and so I'm trying to heklp them break their lease & get the hell outta there.

anonymous

Wow. Many thanks Brooklyn Boy, for the article. I'm a Brooklyn-born girl but wanted some feedback on that area.

And I was checking out an apt right on corner of President and Franklin a couple of months ago, and thought it looked pretty decent (yes of course on a sunny Saturday afternoon). What's it notorious for if I may ask.

anonymous

w wrote: Wow. Many thanks Brooklyn Boy, for the article. I'm a Brooklyn-born girl but wanted some feedback on that area.

And I was checking out an apt right on corner of President and Franklin a couple of months ago, and thought it looked pretty decent (yes of course on a sunny Saturday afternoon). What's it notorious for if I may ask.

There are certain streets that are just known hot spots (e.g., Lincoln Road btwn Franklin & Bedford...a/k/a "Stinkin' Lincoln"), usually as a result of drug sales and the activities that this brings; and that building is 1 of them. Last summer, a friend of mine's aunt was returning home from the hospital in one of those ambulette services (she is wheelchair bound), and as she was being removed from the ambulette, she was killed by a stray shot in front of that building. Apparently, some teenagers were warring. Now, I know this can happen anywhere in NYC, but when it happens on that block people are much less surprised. That entire stretch of Franklin from Eastern Parkway south down to Empire Boulevard was a "hot spot" in the 90s; especially with Prospect Heights & Clara Barton high schools there. When they put the precinct on Franklin/Crown, it helped a little. But when I tell oldtimers who have since left Crown Heights about the neighborhood improving, they usually respond "even Franklin?".

anonymous

Brooklyn Boy, do you think that the south side of Eastern Parkway is as unsafe as the streets south of there? Is there a big difference between living on the north side of Eastern Parkway versus the south side?

homeowner

The south side of EP is just like the north side, some blocks are great and some are crappy. President from Nostrand down to Kingston is among the nicest blocks in Brooklyn. I wouldn't just write off all of the blocks closer to Bedford and Classon. You really need to look at each block.

anonymous

It's interesting to hear such a strong opinion from Brooklyn Boy about south Crown Heights. I bought into a coop on Montgomery about 2 months ago and have really enjoyed the neighborhood thus far. My only statement would be that it seems to be a little more boring and sedate down here than north of Eastern Parkway, with fewer signs of transition at this stage.

It's also worth noting that crime stats for the 71st precinct (Crown Heights South) are better than for the 77th (CH North), particularly when it comes to homicide. I did my homework before deciding to offer.

Still, I would agree that things do seem to change considerably from block to block. But I can vouch for the one you're looking at. It's far enough from Ebbet's Field, and separated by a couple of blocks of single family homes, that it wouldn't really be a concern. There's also no real reason to walk that way for public transportation, etc. It's a nice, tree-lined block with some great buildings and constant signs of improvement. You'd be very close to both a Rite Aid on Bedford and a big Associated supermarket on Nostrand.

dmiami

I am on Montgomery between Bedford and Rodgers and I have found it safe, but probably leaning towards boring. I picked this location because of the access to the gardens, park, museum and multiple train lines. We moved in and I was FLOORED when I first walked down President. The houses there rival the mansions in Fort Greene.

ww

Thanks everyone for all your input. This seems like a very active and responsive forum and I'm glad to have found it.

dmiami

BTW the Met on Franklin is actually pretty good. And there is a coffee shop opening on Crown and Bedford.

naif

I just double-checked the crime stats for this year and it appears that we in Crown Heights South are statistically pretty neck and neck with Crown Heights North so far this year. I guess I was thinking of murder numbers in 2006, where the 77th precinct was actually better off than the 71st. Anyway, the major trend is that BOTH sides of Eastern Parkway have improved considerably in the past 5 years.

If you end up moving into the neighborhood, I think you'll find this neck o' the woods fairly quiet and safe, with lots of kids and older people. I've yet to encounter any uncomfortable situations, even walking home from the Franklin station late at night, though it seems best to avoid walking on Franklin itself.

Glad to hear about the coffee shop opening up. You might also check out the Tavern on Nostrand (Nostrand and Union). If you search this forum, you'll also find that the bagel and tea place across the street will soon be re-opening, along with a new pan-Asian restaurant.

anonymous

Anonymous wrote: Brooklyn Boy, do you think that the south side of Eastern Parkway is as unsafe as the streets south of there? Is there a big difference between living on the north side of Eastern Parkway versus the south side?

In my opinion, there isn't a big difference...but there is a difference. Because EP is a huge street, people don't generally cross it for routine reasons like going the store. So each side of the street is colored by the activities taking place around its corners, etc. The area around the south side of EP that really concerns me is the corner at Franklin Ave. At a glance, you'll immediately notice that the short block on Franklin Ave. between EP and Union is almost ALWAYS jam-packed with people loitering the streets...and that spills onto EP (see e.g., in front of building #320). Loiterers are a predecessor to trouble...especially if they're getting drunk or high outside. Next thing you know, there's a dice game that turns violent, or an argument that erupts just from loitering on a hot street with nothing else to do...or, the loiterers want to get some weed and have no more money, and you know what happens then. The southern side of EP & Franklin isn't ready for prime time yet. I'm floored each time I see a newcomer going into one of those buildings.

dead

Hey Brooklyn Boy you seem to know the area quite well. What are you thoughts about St. Johns Place and Rogers Ave? Im going to an open house next week on St Johns Place and I currently rent In Park Slope....but Ive lived in quite a few neighborhoods...i.e. Greenpoint, Jackson Heights QNs, Astoria. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

ben

dead wrote: Hey Brooklyn Boy you seem to know the area quite well. What are you thoughts about St. Johns Place and Rogers Ave? Im going to an open house next week on St Johns Place and I currently rent In Park Slope....but Ive lived in quite a few neighborhoods...i.e. Greenpoint, Jackson Heights QNs, Astoria. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

Are you going to see the new condos at 794 St. Johns? The pictures look nice.

St. johns changes from one way to two way at rogers which I think is the biggest problem with this block. It's not that it's bad, it's just busier and doesn't have the same vibe as some of the great tree lined blocks in the surrounding area. The block also has a good number of apt buildings rather than just private homes so this contributes to its character.

In general, I think it's a strong location, it's close to subways and eastern parkway and close to Nostrand for shopping. Right across EP on Nostrand is the cluster of places all owned by the guy who has Tavern on Nostrand. There's a spa there as well as what was Bagels and High Tea which I think was being reconfigured into something new.

Anyway, I think it's worth checking out, let us know what you think after the open house.

anonymous

dead wrote: Hey Brooklyn Boy you seem to know the area quite well. What are you thoughts about St. Johns Place and Rogers Ave? Im going to an open house next week on St Johns Place and I currently rent In Park Slope....but Ive lived in quite a few neighborhoods...i.e. Greenpoint, Jackson Heights QNs, Astoria. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

Yeah, I've lived in CH for a few decades, give or take time I spent away at school. Rogers & St. Johns in my opinion is farther along on the gentrification trail than south of Eastern Parkway; however, it's not as developed as some of the avenues (other than Franklin) to your immediate west. This means that it is relatively safe, but it could use much more as far as services/restaurants, etc. are concerned. But as you see, there are condo projects popping up near Rogers/St. Marks, etc. I think improvement is right around the corner.

frontiersperson

I live at Maple & Troy, 3 blocks south of Empire, and i've had no problems. Not too much in the way of leering from dudes on the corner, no police activity, just dead silence at night. Between Eastern Parkway and Empire, it's mostly the Lubavitch; when you cross Empire, it gets more "urban". I'm a black female living with 2 hipster dudes (one white, one hispanic), and neither of them have been harrassed or bothered. So it's all good on the south side!

anonymous

Hey Dead,
We live on the other side of Nostrand on St Johns and I am actually glad it's busy.. lots of activity makes me feel safer.. We haven't had any problems since we moved in last year in May. The liquor store owner on St Johns (one store up from Nostrand) on your side is super nice. He can tell you more about the neighborhood and that block.

anonymous

AHHH What should I do? I just signed a lease for a place on Franklin that was amazing. But now Im freaking out with what you guys have been saying. My girlfriend and I loved it becasue it was a block and a half from the subway and a grocery and laundrymat close by. But is the crime that bad?? I mean its only 300 feet from the subway station and Franklin does seem busy. Will commen sense be enough to avoid being mugged or shot at ?(ie. dont go out at 3 in the morning) We are both young white professionals who are open to a mix of culture and ethnicities so got any advice for us?

bean

I've been on Eastern Parkway and Franklin for a couple years. There is a lot of loitering and some drug dealing, especially on that first block south of Eastern Parkway. For what it's worth, even though Franklin has a bad reputation compared with some surrounding streets, I don't feel unsafe and haven't seen anything bad (though I've heard gun shots from inside my apartment on a few occasions). I'm female, and I often come home late by myself. However, I live right by the subway entrance, and I don't often walk down Franklin late night.

We all agree that crime happens in this neighborhood. I feel like it's important to be aware of what goes on, but that won't ultimately help to predict it. Whether or not you'll adjust well to living here will have something to do with your comfort level--it's a mental thing. I tend not to worry, but it seems like most of my female friends would rather spend more money on rent in exchange for peace of mind. If you guys end up being really stressed about your personal safety, maybe it won't be worth it.

capt. planet

Bear in mind that the Mazon Discount store on the north side of EPW and Franklin is closed in preparation for the construction of a large condo project (like 8 stories) plus some retail space, possibly a Starbucks, as noted elsewhere on this forum.

This should really change the nature of the n'hood forever, or at least the next 25 years, which ever comes first!

dmiami

Guest 3: If you like the apartment you should move in and make up your own mind about the neighborhood. Since you are renting you can always move along... Nothing anyone says here will change the way you feel in the area. People live outside, not online.

anonymous

Subject: Thanks

Thanks for all the help. Ill be checking the apt out this thurs so ill keep you posted.

thecameralady

Brooklyn Boy wrote: ESPN recently focused on this area when it ran a story on the current conditions of the Ebbets Field apartments (former Dodgers stadium which are 1 block away on Beford & Montgomery; they were recently projects and then went private)...I've attached the article for you below; it sheds light on the safety & economic conditions.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/jackie/news/story?id=2830342

Hi. I'm new to the boards. I need to make one correction to what's written above-

Although some people may think they look like projects, Ebbets Field Apartments were never public housing. I've been there for all but seven years of my life.

That said, parts of the neighborhood south of Eastern Parkway are a bit rough around the edges (Franklin Avenue, I'm looking at you), and parts seem okay (like the houses on Sullivan Place on the other side of Bedford Avenue from Ebbets Field). The construction around Medgar Evers and the new pizzeria give some hope, but gentrification of the neighborhood will probably take a while.

ilikesausage

For the record, South of Eastern Parkway (all the way to Clarkson) is part of the 71st precient, and is experiencing a sharp drop in homicides (not that the 77 is doing all that bad either, 25% drop). So far, Gothamist News map shows most of CH being quiet.

mobina

Subject: franklin ave

when i crossed the parkway once i was amazed in the difference between the 2 sides. the side that i live on has the drug dealers who say good morning to you. the other side has drug users who look like they want to kill some one. they have the bloods and the crypts hanging out on the corners everywhere. how can this be? what does it take for the police to notice this? does someone have to get robbed or killed? why is it when i go to kingston ave the police from the same precient are on every corner? makes me wonder

anonymous

Subject: South Vs. North Franklin

I live on top of the Pioneer market on Franklin and Union. I would not trade this apt. for anything that you would give me on the south side the place was totally renovated, the landlord is awesome, the rent is super reasonable, and the building is clean and safe, with no loitering. The landlord can be found in the pioneer his name is Mohamed, he is amiable, and real easy to talk to, if he has a place he is really proud to show it. He saved me the brokers fee and only took first and last months rent, he also knows other landlords and is willing to direct you in the right place.
Sure the south side looks alittle rougher, but I have been here 6 years and it is forever improving

lilbangladesh

To the poster who was wondering about St. Johns & Rogers:

I've heard tell that it's a bit rough, with some loitering. The one time I went in that area, I didn't feel particularly unsafe, but it's definitely not as nice as St. John's between Nostrand and Kingston.

anonymous

Subject: coffee shop

i was speaking to the guy in fishers and he told me that a coffe shop is opening on franklin bet. ep and lincoln pl.

lilbangladesh

I'd prefer one on Nostrand or Kingston, but I'll take what I can get.

anonymous

Subject: nostrand or kingston

you're looking at a decade away

cool the kid

Subject: Re: franklin ave

mobina wrote: when i crossed the parkway once i was amazed in the difference between the 2 sides. the side that i live on has the drug dealers who say good morning to you. the other side has drug users who look like they want to kill some one. they have the bloods and the crypts hanging out on the corners everywhere. how can this be? what does it take for the police to notice this? does someone have to get robbed or killed? why is it when i go to kingston ave the police from the same precient are on every corner? makes me wonder

Which side do you live on???