A Kudos and a Warning

emmaviz

Hey all: This board has been major salvation to me since I have lived in this neighborhood from silly things like where to eat lunch to major things, like how to deal with bed bugs. So I wanted to give a Kudos to whoever recommended Eastern Car Sevice (718 499 6263). I needed to go to the ER last night and they were not only the only car service who had a car available in the hood, but they were here in under 10 minutes, and when I asked to pay with credit the driver was super conscientious and was all "Are you sure? It's a $15 minimum..." which I appreciated, tho $15 is way less than an ambulance.

ANYWAY: The warning is here. I read on this board that LICH was the hospital to go to. That despite bitchy attendants, it was a stellar hospital. Somehow, however, everyone managed to not mention that it is a hospital for criminals, or at least it was last night. The detention center on Atlantic is right down the street, and at least 85% of the patients in the ER had a police escort (or 2, or 3) and were cuffed to their beds, some both arms, some just one, and some with escorts but not cuffed at all. One woman who was about 5 feet from my bed needed 4 police officers to restrain her and cuff her to the bed at one point.

Now, I totally don't begrudge these people medical care, but as a non-criminal who is going to the hospital for a heart attack that started as a panic attack, it would have been good to know ahead of time what the environment of the ER was going to be. Frankly, having people who are trying to attack you physically while you are just trying to control your heart rate isn't really helpful. While my right brain "knew" that nothing would happen to me (what with all of the cops around) my left brain was freaking out. So yah: that's all. I just wanted to let all of you know that if you are going to LICH, know what you are getting yourself into.

Also, can people recommend other ERs in the area so that, if this happens again, I have options? Much thanks!

erikka

That juvenile detention facility just reopened very recently--what you're describing is probably a newly arising problem for LICH, and probably wasn't a factor for those who went there in the past and recommended the place.

Frankly, I've never seen a quiet, civil ER anywhere. That's the nature of the beast.

idlewild

If only Dr. Bombay were still around.

emmaviz

Hey Erikka: thanks for letting me know that the Juvie detention center was new-ish. It's reassuring that this ER atmosphere wasn't just a skipped over detail in previous posts!

I totally dont expect an ER to be quiet or civil: I mean, it's an EMERGENCY room. But being around other ill people is one thing. Being around criminals who are being egged on by cops and hospital employees and who look like they are desperately trying to escape and keep begging to have their cuffs removed can be a bit much if you are prone to panic attacks/if you are at the ER for a heart-related reason. I just wanted to let people know what was up so they could make an educated choice if (god forbid) they need to go to the ER.

erikka

EmmaViz wrote: Hey Erikka: thanks for letting me know that the Juvie detention center was new-ish. It's reassuring that this ER atmosphere wasn't just a skipped over detail in previous posts!

I totally dont expect an ER to be quiet or civil: I mean, it's an EMERGENCY room. But being around other ill people is one thing. Being around criminals who are being egged on by cops and hospital employees and who look like they are desperately trying to escape and keep begging to have their cuffs removed can be a bit much if you are prone to panic attacks/if you are at the ER for a heart-related reason. I just wanted to let people know what was up so they could make an educated choice if (god forbid) they need to go to the ER.

I hear you--didn't mean that in a critical way. And that particular facility was closed for awhile because they had huge problems and handle some of the worst cases, many of which are psych problems.

More info:

http://onlytheblogknowsbrooklyn.typepad.com/only_the_blog_knows_brook/2007/04/brooklyn_house_.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/04/nyregion/04jail.html?ex=1178337600&en=37ea4ee3440ed488&ei=5070

alafairnadia

I hear you on the criminal element being off-putting. I went to Kings County ER last year and the nurses were concerned because my blood pressure was through the roof. I was like "uh, when you slipped the blood pressure cuff on my arm, two cops walked in and sat a guy down next to me and cuffed him to the chair" (plus I'd eaten at babbo a few nights before and had enough salt in my system to elevate anyone's blood pressure)

in any case, FREAKY.

evan

one of my student's mother is a security guard at LICH and he's told me some pretty interesting stories. right now she has a broken arm she got from a patient. two weeks ago he was busted for walking around naked in the halls, then the other day he was back in, lost it, broke her arm and had to be restrained by 5 cops.

erikka

Next time you need an ER try finding a hospital that A) is private (often they are St. _____ or have a religious affiliation) or is not a teaching/public hospital. I know this sounds totally classist, but public hospitals cannot turn away patients based upon their insurance status and are pretty much forced to take anyone who walks in. Every hospital listed on here would be one to avoid, most of them have pretty bad reputations: http://www.nycmccap.org/guide/chap10c.html

BUT--I am not an expert on this subject and may very well be incorrect in the information I'm passing along, so take it with a grain of salt). But in case of needing an ambulance it is a good idea to keep a card in your wallet specifying what hospital you want to be taken to.

When it comes down to it, no hospital can turn you away in the case of a true emergency--but they get to decide what that means, and often private hospitals will transfer these sort of cases to non-emergency care settings, where they really should be in the first place: http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/KnowYourRights/KnowYourEmergencyRoomRights.aspx

In terms of Brooklyn, we're definitely lacking in world-class health care. If I had to pick a hospital to be sent to in the immediate area, I'd probably pick Methodist. If I could travel a bit, Beth Isreal. But neither hold a candle to the hospitals in Manhattan--Cornell and Mount Sinai would be my choice if I could go anywhere in the city.

I've also read that you should avoid going to the ER in the summer because that's when the new interns are brought in and mortality rates go up. So, everyone stay healthy until September, okay

king without a crown

What you experienced is not a new phenomenon. LICH is the closet hospital to Brooklyn's Central Booking, therefore any prisoner at that facility claiming of even a splinter gets sent there. For trauma, King County is the best hospital in Brooklyn with them servicing numerous gunshot victims daily. Methodist however provides a cleaner friendlier environment.

erikka

King without a crown wrote: What you experienced is not a new phenomenon. LICH is the closet hospital to Brooklyn's Central Booking, therefore any prisoner at that facility claiming of even a splinter gets sent there. For trauma, King County is the best hospital in Brooklyn with them servicing numerous gunshot victims daily. Methodist however provides a cleaner friendlier environment.

Kings is where 50 Cent went when he was shot nine times. Then he got famous bragging about it and didn't pay his bill. Last I heard they were suing, and I hope they win. But yeah, Kings is definitely well versed in shootings--and they have a nasty psychiatric emergency center. Probably not where you want to be if you found LICH to be less than hospitable.

KWOAC -- is there any sort of in-house medical offered at detention facilities or do they automatically shuttle them to the ER? I know that prisioners can sue if they feel they have not gotten adequate care.

pnlop

My first choice for ER would be New York Downtown hospital located across the Brooklyn Bridge in Manhattan. They have a relatively small ER, and are not usually as busy as most due to their location. I used to live around the corner from the hospital, and the few times i've had to go, I had a very good experience. And they are the closest hospital in Manhattan to us. That said, if I were having a heart attack I would probably go to Methodist since it is the closest. Apparently if you get there by ambulance they take you right away. I haven't had the experience, just what i've heard. I would never go to LICH just from stories I've heard.

idlewild

Avoid Maimonides. It's a fucking scary place to have a panic attack and above. Methodist seems much better since it was taken over by Columbia.

alex

How about Brookdale

idlewild

One has to find Brookdale first.

king without a crown

At central booking any prisoner with a medical complaint is automatically sent to LICH with escorting Police Officers. Once the prisoner is arraigned he/she becomes The Dept. of Corrections responsibility and they have their own protocol for dealing with sick prisoners.

herrick

EMMA! If you think at all that you are having a heart attack, CALL AN AMBULANCE! Worry about payment later. Seriously. Take advantage of the EMS system. Not only that but they can suggest an ER and you will bypass the reception area and get in faster.

I'm not saying do this for a toothache but seriously if you are having heart problems call 911! Don't call a car service.

I worked in EMS from 1988-2000 I know from where i speak. Do not let the cost concern you. If you really can't afford it, they will eventually stop sending bills. You'd rather get a bill than be dead.

carnivore

Herrick speaks the truth, although if the issue is really a heart attack, you probably want to go to a place that has 24 hour cardiac catheterization availability, which surprisingly isn't where NYC EMS will always take you, although you can direct them to a specific hospital within reason (i.e. you can't tell them to take you to Columbia Presby when you get picked up in Brooklyn). In Brooklyn, I know that Maimo and University Hospital of Brooklyn (Downstate) have 24 hour cath, and I'm not sure who else. If you're in an age group and have risk factors for heart disease (over 50, high blood pressure, diabetes, cigarette smoking, family history) you should look into cath centers near you.

As far as your EMS bill, the city bills twice and then writes it off as a loss, period. If you can't afford it, don't worry about it.

If you have a minor problem that anyplace can basically handle, especially if it's something that you could just see a primary doctor for if you could just get an appointment (sore throat, cold, medication refill, etc), definitely go to a small community ER because you'll get moved through the system faster. You probably don't want to go to a place like that if you might have something serious that you'll need to be admitted for.

But Erikka is wrong about one thing- no ER public or private can turn anyone away without an evaluation and "stabilizing care" regardless of ability to pay. This is mandated by the government via EMTALA. In New York, "stabilizing care" generally means anything that would have been done in the ER anyway, including admission for surgery or cath or whatever intervention might urgently be required. In other parts of the country, the term is interpreted a bit more literally.

I wouldn't recommend going to Brookdale for anything.

leeho

This was in today's Daily News:

Exclusive
'Like living in hell'

Brooklyn psychiatric ward sued for living conditions and mistreatment of patients

BY MICHAEL SAUL
DAILY NEWS CITY HALL BUREAU

Posted Monday, May 7th 2007, 4:00 AM

Arthur Swafford is suing the city-run Kings County Hospital for conditions he says he endured during stays for bipolar disorder.

Arthur Swafford went to the psychiatric ward at Kings County Hospital last year looking for help - but found himself in a living hell.

In an exclusive interview, the 55-year-old Vietnam vet described sleeping on a rodent-infested floor in an overcrowded ward where the bathroom walls were smeared with feces and guards kept order by beating the patients.

"I've seen dogs be treated better than that and live in better conditions than that. That's like living in hell," Swafford, 55, told the Daily News. "That's the lowest of places, man. Oh, my God - to be living in your own filth and everything. That is disgusting."

Last week, the director of Mental Hygiene Legal Service, a state agency, filed a bombshell federal lawsuit on behalf of Swafford and others, accusing the hospital of subjecting psychiatric patients to overcrowded and squalid conditions, physical abuse and unnecessary injections of mood-altering drugs.

The president of the city's Health and Hospitals Corp., Alan Aviles, admitted the city-run psychiatric center is often overcrowded but denounced the lawsuit's allegations as "grossly inaccurate" and "irresponsible."

Still, Swafford, a coal miner's son who spent most of his life working as a mechanic, recounted for The News detailed horrors of his two stays last year in the hospital's G Building.

Swafford, diagnosed with bipolar disorder, said there weren't enough beds.

"I ended up sleeping on the floor with a sheet by a water fountain that was leaking," he said, describing his first visit. "I'm seeing mice run across around the room."

Two dozen men and women idled for days in a waiting room, he said, sleeping in chairs or bundled in sheets - surrounded by filth and excrement.

"The bathrooms you had to hold your nose to walk by. Feces all over the walls, the toilets, on the floor," he said in an interview at the midtown law offices of Kirkland & Ellis. "It was ridiculous. It was uninhabitable to me."

Swafford had undergone open-heart surgery shortly before his second stay in G Building, but he said staffers told him to sleep in a reclining chair.

He claims a younger patient was so shocked he offered Swafford his own bed, saying, "'Give the old man my bed - he's too old to be sleeping in a La-Z-Boy.'"

While some staffers were just callous, he said, some hospital police actively abused patients.

"I seen officers take a billy club and hit a guy in the mouth because he was talking and running his mouth," he said. "And then they injected him with medication.... There was no reason to beat him like they did."

Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, which is also involved in the case, called the problems in G Building a "scandal."

"There's just no reason that in this day and age, psychiatric patients should be consigned to sleeping in their own filth, on the floors and on filthy rubber mats in overcrowded facilities and be subjected to forced medications and abuse," Lieberman said.

Swafford said he agreed to participate in the lawsuit in the hopes of making changes at the hospital.

"It's a shame that society has to put our kids through this, or anyone who needs help," he said. "They go down [to the hospital] and be worse off than they started out."

[email protected]

emmaviz

Carnivore wrote: As far as your EMS bill, the city bills twice and then writes it off as a loss, period. If you can't afford it, don't worry about it.

That is way awesome to know! Thanks, Carnivore! How'd you find it out?

carnivore

EmmaViz wrote: [quote=Carnivore]As far as your EMS bill, the city bills twice and then writes it off as a loss, period. If you can't afford it, don't worry about it.

That is way awesome to know! Thanks, Carnivore! How'd you find it out?
I'm an ER doc.
The city's policy is pretty well-known in some circles. In fact, a lot of people abuse EMS to the point of practically using it as a taxi service because of this (like calling an ambulance for a cold or a stubbed toe). But the burden this abuse places on the tax-payers is worth it because it allows people with true emergencies to call 911 without first considering the cost.

herrick

Thanks Carnivore. I had wondered if you would chime in.

wally

ok - what about LICH for non emergency use? Any opinions? What about the OB dept at LICH (and no, I don't want to go to Park Slope Parents and ask. They can be a bit wound up on that board).

modoki

I just got back from the Methodist ER, which has been completely remodeled since a week. It all looked very clean and they have a separate waiting room and set-up for Pediatrics.

The last time I was there, it looked like a hospital in a second-world country at best: dirty sheets and space dividers, rusty steam pipes. It was fine for the deepish cut in my finger, but I would hate to have gone there for something more serious.

Their brand new registration system is not running smoothly yet; other than that I'm impressed. Today, I went with a bad sinus infection that my emergency doctor told me to have checked out at an ER, and the medical attention was fine.

BTW, the above doctor suggested NYU ER if you prefer Manhattan hospitals and can handle a walk-up. She said they don't accept ambulances, so in theory there is less waiting time.

marsstars

Subject: Beth Israel

If you have time to make it into Manhattan, definitely hit the Beth Israel ER.

doctorj

wally wrote: ok - what about LICH for non emergency use? Any opinions? What about the OB dept at LICH (and no, I don't want to go to Park Slope Parents and ask. They can be a bit wound up on that board).

I've heard good things about OB at LICH; a friend is having her 4th there soon. Seems like one of the better options this side of the river.

quijibo

LeeHo wrote: This was in today's Daily News:

Exclusive
'Like living in hell'

Brooklyn psychiatric ward sued for living conditions and mistreatment of patients

BY MICHAEL SAUL
DAILY NEWS CITY HALL BUREAU

Posted Monday, May 7th 2007, 4:00 AM

Arthur Swafford is suing the city-run Kings County Hospital for conditions he says he endured during stays for bipolar disorder.

Arthur Swafford went to the psychiatric ward at Kings County Hospital last year looking for help - but found himself in a living hell.

In an exclusive interview, the 55-year-old Vietnam vet described sleeping on a rodent-infested floor in an overcrowded ward where the bathroom walls were smeared with feces and guards kept order by beating the patients.

"I've seen dogs be treated better than that and live in better conditions than that. That's like living in hell," Swafford, 55, told the Daily News. "That's the lowest of places, man. Oh, my God - to be living in your own filth and everything. That is disgusting."

yea. if you have a gunshot/stab wound
kings county is the hospital you wanna go to

but if it's a mental ailment
you don't wanna go to kings county

Methodist will have you spend the entire day waiting before you see anyone

caseopele

wally, stay away from Dr. Thomasena Ellison at LICH. I'll do my best to make a really long story short. I had an emergency appendectomy at LICH about 20 years ago, they screwed it up and I was left with alot of scar tissue (more to that story but I'm trying to be brief). About 11 years ago, I started having severe pain because of the scar tissue. It had covered my uterus and attached one of my ovaries to the back of my uterus. Dr. Ellison told me it was due to the botched appendectomy before she found out it was done at LICH. Immediately after she found out she changed her diagnosis to pelvic inflammatory disease. I had to have a laparoscopy to remove the scar tissue which like any surgery causes more scar tissue. I am basically condemned to more surgeries to remove the buildup of scar tissue which will in turn cause more scar tissue. I am putting the next surgery off as long as I can.

This is a condensed version of my experience with LICH. I will never step one foot in that hospital even if I'm dying. So, use caution when choosing an OB/GYN there. Good luck.

caseopele

I came across the first article while searching for lawsuits against LICH. It's about Dr. Ellison. The others are different.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:C79hawoEV7MJ:www.courts.state.ny.us/REPORTER/pdfs/2007/2007_30611.pdf+"long+island+college+hospital"+malpractice&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9E0DE4D71E39F935A15751C0A9679C8B63&n=Top/Reference/Times Topics/Organizations/H/Health Department

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4180/is_20041026/ai_n10070332

erikka

doctorj wrote: [quote=wally]ok - what about LICH for non emergency use? Any opinions? What about the OB dept at LICH (and no, I don't want to go to Park Slope Parents and ask. They can be a bit wound up on that board).

I've heard good things about OB at LICH; a friend is having her 4th there soon. Seems like one of the better options this side of the river.

Dr. Russell @ LICH is mine and she is simply wonderful. I recommend her very highly.

daisyh

I just delivered at LICH and can vouch for the nice facilities (surprisingly great views from the maternity rooms) and attentive nurses. I'll also 2nd the Dr. Russell recommendation - she's amazing.