More on Teen Gangs: Fort Greene

jesed

Check out this story from The Brooklyn Paper, this happening in Fort Green: http://brooklynpaper.com/sections/fort_greene/

Teens steal someone else’s food


Police nabbed a gang of five teens — ages 14 to 16 — who allegedly tried to rob a deliveryman of his money, food and bicycle on May 11.

The posse tracked the 34-year-old victim from the restaurant where he works to the delivery site, on Clinton Avenue, between Greene and Gates avenues, at around 7 pm. That’s when the teens rushed the man and insisted he turn over his earnings and the means to his livelihood.

Instead, the deliveryman ran inside the home and dialed 911. Police Officer Edgar Gonzalez arrived with a crew that rounded up the teenagers. The five boys — two age 14, two 15-year-olds and one who is 16 — now face robbery charges.

oiseau

ghetto kids.

jesed

I know this is a serious situation - but could you give the whole "ghetto kids" thing a rest please.

supergirl

Clinton Avenue, between Greene and Gates

Oh shoot, that's where I live and I always get delivery. Wait--didn't do so on the 11th. Went to the movies instead. Phew.

ltjbukem

bad kids. they didn't learn from the others who robbed/killed the deliveryman in queens a few years back..i don't think jail is really a deterrent these days.

i mentor a kid who told me, 'jail isn't so bad, i hear. my friends say that you get 3 nice meals and you just lift weights and shoot hoops with your friends.'

folks, that is a PROBLEM if kids are thinking like that.

carmen

^a fucking men.
What the hell is going on with parents or...I dont even know, SOCIETY these days if kids think going to jail isnt "that bad."

Man I felt old saying that. I'm only 23 and I feel so detached from kids a decade or even less younger than me. Its like people are getting dumber every year....

guvna

ltjbukem wrote: bad kids. they didn't learn from the others who robbed/killed the deliveryman in queens a few years back..i don't think jail is really a deterrent these days.

i mentor a kid who told me, 'jail isn't so bad, i hear. my friends say that you get 3 nice meals and you just lift weights and shoot hoops with your friends.'

folks, that is a PROBLEM if kids are thinking like that.

are prison rapes a thing of the past? That used to be a pretty good deterrent!

turtle23

It isn't the case of bad parenting. What do you do when you have to work long hours to pay for alot of bills, your child spends most of their time at school, he/she doesn't have an afterschool program because you don't or can't take the chance to leave work just to sign them up and you don't have a large family based support system like a sister that helps out when she can? Some parents have to go through alot. And quite frankly, when children are bored with not alot to do, it doesn't matter where they come from, ghetto or not, they find something devious to do.

anonymous

well Boondocks haven't been airing much lately.
plus I don't know if kids are sent to assrape prison VS a house of detention "jail"

other deterrent would be jail time looks bad on a resume but a lot of employers don't ask anyway in NYC, especially in the unskilled labor
which isn't a bad thing: I was able to get my cousin a job out of jail which he then could use as a reference to get a better job later
AFAIK he wasn't raped and just spent time lifting weights and talking on the phone to his mom while incarcerrated.

alecorock

I've taught in some of the most difficult populations in Brooklyn, and I run into kids five years down the line who were totally cuckoo-bananas and they're in the police academy now or working for Con-Ed. The strain of rebellion is more extreme in a lot of BK neighborhoods, and the consequences are more dire, but most kids grow out of it. Anybody who thinks these kids "don't have futures" don't know wtf they're talking about.

boogieknight

turtle23 wrote: It isn't the case of bad parenting. What do you do when you have to work long hours to pay for alot of bills, your child spends most of their time at school, he/she doesn't have an afterschool program because you don't or can't take the chance to leave work just to sign them up and you don't have a large family based support system like a sister that helps out when she can? Some parents have to go through alot. And quite frankly, when children are bored with not alot to do, it doesn't matter where they come from, ghetto or not, they find something devious to do.

I respectfully disagree, it is bad parenting. Speaking as one of these kids, who grew up with a single, overextended stressed-out non-English speaking mom w/ multiple jobs, the parent's ultimate responsibility is to drill into your head, by words and example, that you have to be on your best behavior-study hard-work hard every day of your life.

Because like you mentioned the consequences of not doing so are dire. And if you screw around and your life goes down the tubes, then not only have you f*cked yourself but you've also just f*cked whatever loved ones are attached to you. So don't be an a*hole, and do right. Scary and a lot to bear in mind when you're just a kid...well yeah. You and parents drew the short straw and everything is gonna be a lot harder for you in this life.

Just because you're poor now and you don't have a lot of stuff that richer people have, doesn't make you a piece of sh*t. Acting like a piece of sh*t makes you a piece of sh*t.

So in short, your kids running wild and making their lives and nabes a crappier place to live, because you're poor and tired and not having enough of a support system, is bad parenting.

candicissima

Alecorock wrote: I've taught in some of the most difficult populations in Brooklyn, and I run into kids five years down the line who were totally cuckoo-bananas and they're in the police academy now or working for Con-Ed. The strain of rebellion is more extreme in a lot of BK neighborhoods, and the consequences are more dire, but most kids grow out of it. Anybody who thinks these kids "don't have futures" don't know wtf they're talking about.

Cosign, Alecorock. =D>

anfield

Guvna wrote: [quote=ltjbukem]bad kids. they didn't learn from the others who robbed/killed the deliveryman in queens a few years back..i don't think jail is really a deterrent these days.

i mentor a kid who told me, 'jail isn't so bad, i hear. my friends say that you get 3 nice meals and you just lift weights and shoot hoops with your friends.'

folks, that is a PROBLEM if kids are thinking like that.

are prison rapes a thing of the past? That used to be a pretty good deterrent!

Prison rape is a fallacy.

guvna

ANFIELD wrote: [quote=Guvna][quote=ltjbukem]bad kids. they didn't learn from the others who robbed/killed the deliveryman in queens a few years back..i don't think jail is really a deterrent these days.

i mentor a kid who told me, 'jail isn't so bad, i hear. my friends say that you get 3 nice meals and you just lift weights and shoot hoops with your friends.'

folks, that is a PROBLEM if kids are thinking like that.

are prison rapes a thing of the past? That used to be a pretty good deterrent!

Prison rape is a fallacy.
Oh really?

fal·la·cy [fal-uh-see] Pronunciation Key -
–noun, plural -cies.
1. a deceptive, misleading, or false notion, belief, etc.: That the world is flat was at one time a popular fallacy.
2. a misleading or unsound argument.
3. deceptive, misleading, or false nature; erroneousness.
4. Logic. any of various types of erroneous reasoning that render arguments logically unsound.
5. Obsolete. deception.

Tell it to these people: http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report.html

leffertsgirl

hooray for kids who grow up and get jobs.

the issue for me is that their "cuckoo-bananas" stage affects me and others in the community. it sickens me how many people are tolerant of the behavior. i expect more of my neighbors and their children regardless of their family or financial situation. especially because many of them in this community are my black people. but i digress....

there are plenty of poor, single parents that raise sweet, positive, productive children. some that get good jobs and some that don't...which is really beside the point. they're a pleasure to be around which is the most important thing, imo.

i consider bad parenting a form of child abuse and it baffles my mind that anyone could excuse an adult from properly parenting their children regardless of the laundry list of excuses they can muster up. if you made the decision to be a parent, you have to make it work. period.

anonymous

Its more of the environment you live in than the parenting. Even a kid with the best parenting will do bad in a bad environment. Not to say there are no bad parents, but the entire society bears the burden of raising kids.

As to the cuckoo-bananas stage there is emerging evidence that juveniles lack the ability for empathy due to hormone/ brain changes during development.

turtle23

First of all, I was not making an excuse for bad mothers(Boogie Knight). You mean to tell me that a young person from the ages of 10-18 can't make a rational judgemet about their behavior and the consequences that may or may not occur. Everyone needs to stop making excuses for youth because its not all the parent's fault. I was poor, both my parents worked hard, and I wasn't hardly in any afterschool programs. I could have made a choice to be bad even if I knew that my parents would beat my behind, but I made the choice to be a "good child". It seems that some people need to grow up and forgive their parents for the past.Everyone doesn't come into this world with a silver spoon in their mouths. Rather than blaming and being angry, embrace and break the cycle in your own life. Your mother might have been able to do more because of the choice she made, but what about you. Wasn't there a single point in your life where you were old enough to be a rational and responsible individual? Trust me, at some point children are capable of making their own decisions on their behavior, it's adults that are giving them too much room for error.

Bad parenting is not a woman that is poor, can't communicate in English, and doesn't have a support system. It is the neglect of things that you can help and choose to do nothing about. And on top of all this I ask, what do you do when you live in a community when neighbors, teachers, and even police officers turn the other cheek when they see a child is doing wrong. The parent is not the only one that raises a child, it the whole community. In conclusion, I wasn't making excuses but rather stating the odds that are against alot of women who are struggling out there, especially when the men aren't around to take part in raising their own child. And men are a huge part of it too!!!!! A boy needs a father present to know how to be a man, and a girl needs a father to be present to know how to be treated by a man

homeowner

The following appeared in the New York Times a few weeks ago...

Girl, 12, Injured by Gunfire Outside a Party in the Bronx
By THOMAS J. LUECK AND CASSI FELDMAN
Published: May 7, 2007
A 12-year-old Bronx girl was shot and critically injured shortly before 3 a.m. yesterday when a dispute broke out and gunfire erupted in the street, according to the police and witnesses.

The girl, who was identified by relatives as Kirsys Rodriguez, was shot in the lower back as she was leaving a late-night party on Marion Avenue in Fordham with a group of other young people.
Members of her family said she was listed in critical but stable condition late yesterday at NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital/Columbia University Medical Center. She was transferred there after first being taken by bystanders to St. Barnabas Hospital.

As Kirsys and others were leaving the party, where witnesses said some drank beer and no adults were present, gunfire broke out near the apartment building where it was held, at 2466 Marion Avenue. The police said there was a dispute between two groups there, and witnesses said Kirsys was trying to flee the gunfire.

Freiberg Romero, 13, who said he attended the party with Kirsys and about 50 other young people, said he dived for cover under a parked car when the first shot was fired, and called out to Kirsys. ''I yelled at Kirsys to come with me, but she didn't want to come,'' he said.
Instead, Kirsys ran toward the lobby of the apartment building next door. She had reached its glass front door when she was struck.

The police had made no arrests in the case late yesterday, and it was unclear what prompted the gunfire or who was involved. Freiberg said he heard seven shots after seeing some young people in the crowd make the hand signals of the gang known as Dominicans Don't Play, or D.D.P.
''There were lots of people crowding around and lots of crying,'' said Fernando Cruz, 19, who said he was returning to his apartment across Marion Avenue just as the gunfire broke out. Mr. Cruz said he looked out a window and saw a girl who appeared to be dead.

Abril Rodriguez, 16, Kirsys' sister, did not attend the party, but said it was not unusual for her or Kirsys to attend late-night parties without adult supervision. ''My mom, she trusts us and she believes in us,'' she said. Kirsys and Abril live with their mother, who is also named Kirsys, and two brothers, ages 11 and 20, on Valentine Avenue, a few blocks from where the shooting took place.

Abril said of her sister, ''Basically, she goes to school, she's an honor student,'' and added, ''The people she hangs out with, they are good people; that's why my mom let her go.''
Photographers who were allowed by the police to enter the basement area where the party took place early yesterday found sparsely furnished rooms with worn sofas and equipment used by disc jockeys.

News of the shooting sent a chill through many Fordham residents yesterday. Jose Rodriguez, who lives nearby but is not related to Kirsys, said he was shocked that youngsters were allowed to stay out so late without supervision.

This is what we're up against people. 50 teenagers out in the street without adult supervision at 3am. Bad parenting is an epidemic and its going to destroy us all.

oiseau

May 21, 2007 -- Manhattan Four teens were arrested for attacking a cyclist and ripping off his bike in Central Park, police sources said yesterday.

The violence began at about 3:10 p.m. last Tuesday, when the 37-year-old victim was accosted by six or seven youths while riding north on the East Drive near West 105th Street.

One teen pelted the victim with a water balloon while another punched him in the face, knocking him to the ground. After the thieves stole the bike and fled, the victim flagged down an officer and gave a description of his attackers.

Police found one suspect - a 15-year-old - and charged him with robbery and assault. Two other 15-year-olds and Ahmed Leach, 17, were later arrested on the same charges.

Oh, it's just teenagers being teenagers

erikka

I'm sorry, but I'm hard pressed to think of other areas of the country where "being a teenager" means assault and robbery. Granted, in high school I engaged in a bit of minor property damage to a mail box or two but doing bodily harm to another person isn't just youthful indiscretion. It's definitely foreshadowing of worse things to come.

I'm sure some of these kids go legit, but the currently overwhelmed prision population is telling me that a fair number of them don't.

boogieknight

turtle23 wrote: First of all, I was not making an excuse for bad mothers(Boogie Knight). You mean to tell me that a young person from the ages of 10-18 can't make a rational judgemet about their behavior and the consequences that may or may not occur. Everyone needs to stop making excuses for youth because its not all the parent's fault. ... The parent is not the only one that raises a child, it the whole community.

Turtle23, in case the first part of your post is directed at me, rest assured that I know that as awesome as my mom was, I also rock and showed a wisdom and initiative far beyond my years .

Although, again respectfully, I disagree with the latter part of your post. At the end of the day, I believe the parent is the only one who raises a child. If your community chips in, then you've hit the lottery, but if the community doesn't and worse, may seem to actively want to screw your kid up, then its solely the parent's responsibility to bring the kid up right.

I have a daughter now, and believe me, although my wife and I are gonna work our asses of to make sure she turns to be great kid/adult/neighbor/citizen, if she screws up and takes to robbing/beating/killing people for fun, its gonna feel like its my fault. I mean if she turns out to be a jerk, I raised the jerk, didn't I?

candicissima

erikka wrote: I'm sorry, but I'm hard pressed to think of other areas of the country where "being a teenager" means assault and robbery.

Yeah, kids everywhere else are perfect angels...

A 14-year-old Redmond boy was arrested Monday night in connection with a knife attack on another boy that caused minor injuries not requiring hospitalization to the victim’s chest, authorities reported.

Redmond Police responded to SW 34th Street and SW Quartz Place in Redmond, Oregon about 9:35 p.m. to a report of a stabbing. The 13-year-old victim was found with cuts in the chest area, officers said, and was treated on scene by medics and released.

The investigation, led by Redmond Police detectives with assistance provided by police officers, School Resource Officers and a Deschutes County Sheriff’s deputy, resulted in the identification of a possible suspect.

During a subsequent interview with the 14-year-old suspect, officers said he confessed, was placed in custody, and transported to the Deschutes Juvenile Detention Center. He is charged with second-degree assault and unlawful use of a weapon.

turtle23

You're right Boogie Knight, @ the end of the day you are the one raising your child, but in reality there are other influences that you nor your wife can't control. And it's ashamed that we live in a society where the whole village can't take the initiative to raise a child. Yes it's true I didn't make them, but I do have to live with them. If everyone thought like that I bet these tragic and upsetting events wouldn't be happening at such an alarming rate.

And for the record some kids need to get severe disciplined(standing in the corner won't do) because if you don't do it the cops sure will.

oiseau

Candicissima wrote: [quote=erikka]I'm sorry, but I'm hard pressed to think of other areas of the country where "being a teenager" means assault and robbery.

Yeah, kids everywhere else are perfect angels...

'cept in most places it's an isolated case. In NYC it's becoming a regular happening. In most places people get outraged, in NYC people don't bat an eye (unless it happens to someone they know).

Norplant

Not a bad idea.

candicissima

Well I'm sure if other cities had 8 million people (on a low day) floating around, we might hear more than a few isolated incidents also. And considering all the hemming and bitching going on around here as well on the tv and in the newspapers and in the streets, I'd say there's sufficient outrage. As if anyone is actively suggesting that it's right and good for people minding their business to be shot, robbed, beat up or killed.

So, do you suggest Norplant for everyone, including your gf/wife/daughters (or mom if there was time travel possible) or just those you feel predisposed to be ghetto white people haters?

oiseau

Candicissima wrote: So, do you suggest Norplant for everyone, including your gf/wife/daughters (or mom if there was time travel possible) or just those you feel predisposed to be ghetto white people haters?

I think society could set rules for who and why someone would be Norplanted.

It'd be a good thing for prostitutes.

RU486 shoudl be readily available and handed out like condoms at Planned Parenthoodd and NYC free medical clinics.

It's a lot cheaper than running jails.

anonymous

Oiseau wrote: [quote=Candicissima][quote=erikka]I'm sorry, but I'm hard pressed to think of other areas of the country where "being a teenager" means assault and robbery.

Yeah, kids everywhere else are perfect angels...

'cept in most places it's an isolated case. In NYC it's becoming a regular happening. In most places people get outraged, in NYC people don't bat an eye (unless it happens to someone they know).

Norplant

Not a bad idea.
Oiseau, are you paying attention to what our youth are doing in Iraq? Are you paying attention to history? Is this just convenient for you? Answer this question, who should the Norplant be for, describe them? Please be honest!

alecorock

Unfortunately, according to a few major studies, including one that compared "functional" two-parent families in working class neighborhoods to "disfunctional" families in middle-class neighborhoods, environment tends to trump parenting. The outcomes for this particular study was striking. Kids from alcoholic/addict/chronically unemployed homes that lived as the poor minority in middle class communities had considerably higher health/income/self-satisfaction than the "striving" families in working class communities.

That being said, the single-parent household rate for Crown Heights/Bed Stuy is hovering around 50-60%. In the South Bronx its 80%. Im not gonna get into the role that plays in terms of disciplining young men, but the income issues that raises forces folks to work two jobs, etc. Clearly its a confluence of ugly factors but the single parent thing is a huge factor.

alafairnadia

Oiseau wrote: [quote=Candicissima]So, do you suggest Norplant for everyone, including your gf/wife/daughters (or mom if there was time travel possible) or just those you feel predisposed to be ghetto white people haters?

I think society could set rules for who and why someone would be Norplanted.

It'd be a good thing for prostitutes.

RU486 shoudl be readily available and handed out like condoms at Planned Parenthoodd and NYC free medical clinics.

It's a lot cheaper than running jails.

wait. someone? you mean women. you think society should control women's bodies. are you fucking kidding me?

Let's Watch A Girl Get Beaten To Death <-- are you the one holding the camera phone?

candicissima

Oiseau wrote: I think society could set rules for who and why someone would be Norplanted.

It'd be a good thing for prostitutes.

RU486 shoudl be readily available and handed out like condoms at Planned Parenthoodd and NYC free medical clinics.

It's a lot cheaper than running jails.

Man, I didn't even know there was a hooker pregnancy epidemic! You'd think they'd be the one subsection of the population who would be avoiding that sort of thing since it's bad for business and all. :roll:

Plus I didn't know prostitute was a lifetime career choice.

We totally need you on the Norplant list committee. Think you'd take some time out to develop a male birth control/sterilization tool too? But I guess we won't need it since everyone knows that those who grow up to be evil ghetto kid mothers just spontaneously reproduce by themselves.

oiseau

I'm all for a male Norplant as well.