Future Direction of FG/CH Nabe

limestonekid

Admittedly I haven't been here long enough to really offer anything truly insightful into the direction of the FG/CH nabe but I'm curious to know what others think.

Is there anyone who doesn't think that the area has started down the slippery slope of gentrification? I'm sure for some of the OG's in the nabe it's not a question of starting but more a question of just how fast we're hurtling down the slope.

The reason for my question/concern is that in my walks around the neighborhood with my dogs I'm seeing tons of development. Whether it be new businesses coming in and/or residential properties there are going to be one heck of a lot more people roaming the streets of FG/CH in the not too distant future. Are people concerned about that?

Just going off the top of my head the residential developments that I can think of are:

- Washington Ave (btw. Park & Myrtle)
- Vanderbilt (btw. Myrtle and Willoughby)
- Waverly (btw. Park & Myrtle)
- Cleremont & Myrtle
- Condos on Grand, Ryerson and Stueben
- Navy Yard development (btw. Park & Flushing)

The influx of traffic is going to be a nightmare. I'm sure some of the local businesses will benefit initially but I worry that the increase in rents will drive a lot of the family owned operations out of the neighborhood.

I use to think that our moving to the area from Upstate NY was a net benefit for the nabe but now I'm beginning to question that. The longer we're here the more empathy I'm developing for those who are being or are going to be negatively affected.

escap

Limestonekid,

FG started down the slippery slope of gentrification about 10-15 years ago. (For disclosure, I've been here since 1975.) It is now a full-fledged gentrified neighborhood, or at least it certainly is in pockets, with other blocks still up and coming. I don't know anything about you, but I imagine that if you are a recent comer, as you say, then you are part of the reason for this gentrification, but if not, then many like you are.

With the area's access to trains, historic streets and long history of diversity and artistic flavor, it was only a matter of time (and ending the crack epidemic and soaring murder rates of the 80s) before demand to live here increased. As demand increased and people moved in, businesses sprang up to meet it, making it even more desirable. Prices rose. The area turned into the thriving, bustling scene you see today.

At this point you seem to get the facts wrong. The increased development is not the cause of the price increases, but rather a response to it, and will in fact help alleviate the price pressure. It will also, as you said, increase congestion. At the same time, it will provide further fuel for new restaurants, bookstores, cafes, art centers, and all the other things that make FG so great. All that will in turn most likely lead to further increased demand, which will indeed make prices rise further (and potentially spur more development). This will continue indefinitely, or it will run out of steam and the neighborhood will either stall or potentially slip back into poverty.

If you want to live in a bustling, energetic hood with new businesses sprouting up on every block, great investment opportunities, and improved schools and crime rates on the horizon, I suggest you stay. If you want to live in a quiet, sparsely populated area that is likely to stay that way for a long time, has little in the way of small businesses, will remain affordable for the foreseeable future and will struggle with crime and poverty indefinitely, my advice is go elsewhere. But you definitely won't find that perfect blend of gentrification-proof fantastic neighborhood. It just doesn't exist.

boygabriel

well said escap.

also LimestoneKid, I too see lots of bigger housing developments going up (I live across the street from the Hall/Washington one) but the good news is that the entire neighborhood is getting rezoned in such a way that it will protect most of the 3/4-story brownstone/townhouse blocks in exchange for allowing more development along commercial avenues such as Myrtle.

Our councilwoman, Tish James, is very up on this issue and has been helping to usher through this new rezoning which will largely prevent any new, huge, housing developments from going up (such as the 18 story monstrosity they're putting on my block).

As Escap said, most of this change is largely unavoidable. But I think in the grand scheme of things, FG/CH is doing a good job of welcoming new residents, improving the shopping & eating options, and still maintaining its charm and character.

I highly recommend going to the community meetings, and the various meetings Tish often has. It's very educational towards what's going on in the growth of the neighborhood. Some people get all their development news from this website and that's a very skewed perspective on what's happening.

It's a valuable perspective, but it needs to be complemented with other sources, you know?

anonymous

Subject: the future

My wife says this year is first time the street demographics seem noticeably different- more young whites out and about on Myrtle. I'm not sure why now. I would expect to have to wait until the new buildings opened up first.

As to the future: Wallabout will officially sever ties with FG/CH once we finish the trench we started along Myrtle.

limestonekid

Thanks for the responses.

I think the signs that indicate the neighborhood is fully gentrified will be when a Brooklyn Industries store opens or, heaven forbid, a Starbucks.

escap

Well, there is a Starbucks already in the Atlantic Center, unless you don't consider that FG.

limestonekid

escap wrote: Well, there is a Starbucks already in the Atlantic Center, unless you don't consider that FG.

I was referring more to CH than FG.

And I don't consider the Atlantic Center in FG. I equate it more with the seventh level of Hell.

anonymous

If the plan to gentrify this area was to make it undesirable enough that long time inhabitants would want to get the hell out - or unaffordable so they can't live here....they have done exactly that. Minus the real estate values rising.....I hate every bit of it (everthing is not about money for me and I like home cooked meals)
Parking is becoming hell. I hate to feel like I have to come home right after work so I can park.
I'm tired of the traffic congestion that is going to get worst.
I'm tired of the sound of jackhammers and bulldozers
Some are looking down their noses at the less fortunate in the community - already.
There used to be a nice cozy feel to the neighborhood.
Its being OVER DEVELOPED AND its getting OVER CROWDED. I'm thinking of selling and leaving.

piratesofwaverly

Guest, where would you go, if you did sell and leave?

escap

Luckily for the nabe, a far larger number of New Yorkers seemingly are quite happy with the changes to the neighborhood--hence the increased crowding and development and continued influx of newcomers and new businesses. For every one person who wants to keep things the same or even turn back the clock, there are apparently many others who want to keep moving things forward.

At some point you may reach a tipping point where the neighborhood can't sustain anymore people or development, and then you have some kind of equilibrium between the # of people who want to move in and move out. But we're nowhere near that, I would say, given that even the most developed neighborhoods in New York are continuing to attract newcomers by the thousands.

The only thing that can (and likely will) save FG and other hoods from this trend would be a sharp economic downturn, a crime wave, another crack epidemic, joblessness, homelessness, etc. Then you can live free from Starbucks, Bklyn Industries, development and crowds. And me, since I don't find that notion so romantic.

anonymous

Where would I go? Out of NYC for sure. I have been considering Deleware/Pennsylvania (neither being a far commute) in the event I become intolerably bored.
I'm not unhappy about the change just the push that will seemingly over populate the area - It had its sore spots, but I did he quiet comfort it had before.

anonymous

Guest: I hope you do leave NYC before you cause everyone on this site to become "intolerably bored" with your selfish attitude. But if you move to Delaware, consider learning how to spell that first.

anonymous

I thought Brooklyn Industries was already on Hall St north of Park, and was going to open a retail space in the new glass building on Myrtle accross from the Post Office.
We need more people in the neighborhood so we can get more services and with the proposed new zoning and landmarking I don't think we will be overwhelmed.