Chilling article on Bed Stuy Gangs

ilikesausage

I don't know why I'm responding to this absolute hate fest, but I have several points to make here:


1) Intergration is happening. You may not like it or choose to see it, but that's not your call. People are choosing friends and opinions based on real facts, not skin color. It's about time you do the same.

2) De-basing an entire race of people based on the actions of 3 or 4 juvnilies is straight out of the KKK handbook. We can go on and on about who did what to whom and run up some sort of a raical scorecard, but then that would defeat the purpose.

3) The point about CEOs/Communites is to show that success and progress are being made. I doubt a board of directors filled with white supremecists are going to elect a black CEO. Nevermind the fact you never responded to my neighborhoods post.

4) Your "facts" and "sources" are bullshit. "HalfAfricanRevolution.com"? Why not just come out and say "Mullato". BTW, your genes have been on this soil for at least 200 years. Your no more African then you are American. Get over it. Stop trolling hate sites and actually take a fucking walk around the city. Maybe when you see the White man coodling his African girlfriend on the park bench like I do, maybe it'll all hit you. But then again, you're probably against that sort of thing anyway (at least as far as White men are concerned, when it comes to White women...."what racism"? )

5) The largest mass lynching in US history was against Italians. Wiki it.

bassplaya

Ilikesausage wrote: I don't know why I'm responding to this absolute hate fest, but I have several points to make here:


1) Intergration is happening. You may not like it or choose to see it, but that's not your call. People are choosing friends and opinions based on real facts, not skin color. It's about time you do the same.

Just because someone talks about issues of race, discrimination and unfair treatment of one or more groups doesn't mean that they hate and doesn't mean that they don't have friends and lovers of the dominant group. Moreover as a person of color in this city you can't really avoid interaction with white people though the reverse is not always true.

2) De-basing an entire race of people based on the actions of 3 or 4 juvnilies is straight out of the KKK handbook. We can go on and on about who did what to whom and run up some sort of a raical scorecard, but then that would defeat the purpose.

You mean like your bogus police killing post?

3) The point about CEOs/Communites is to show that success and progress are being made. I doubt a board of directors filled with white supremecists are going to elect a black CEO. Nevermind the fact you never responded to my neighborhoods post.

So are saying that Merill still doesn't operate with a White Male Supremicist culture?

4) Your "facts" and "sources" are bullshit. "HalfAfricanRevolution.com"? Why not just come out and say "Mullato". BTW, your genes have been on this soil for at least 200 years. Your no more African then you are American. Get over it. Stop trolling hate sites and actually take a fucking walk around the city. Maybe when you see the White man coodling his African girlfriend on the park bench like I do, maybe it'll all hit you. But then again, you're probably against that sort of thing anyway (at least as far as White men are concerned, when it comes to White women...."what racism"? )

You seem to have some serious issues. You're the only hater here. Who else would stoop to posting disinformation in a futile attempt to prove their point.? Where in this thread other than your post is a reference to "HalfAfricanRevolution.com"???

5) The largest mass lynching in US history was against Italians. Wiki it.

That's was before Italians in America ascended to whiteness. Were there any postcards to commemorate the occasion?

anonymous

Ilikesausage wrote: [quote=guru]Please research what is going on in Jena, USA way back in 2007 about 500 minutes ago. The black kids had the nerve to sit under the "traditionally" white tree now they are facing life in prison. Very intersesting story to remind the young ones about ... oh yeah they are LIVING IT!

A nation of 250 million white/black folk combined, billions of daily interactions, hundereds of thousands of interracial marriages and millions of interracial friendships, and yet all you can think about is 3 or 4 white kids who probably don't know any better tying rope to a tree.

As far as the Jena kids are concered, I do hope those who commitied this act are brought to justice. But to go and take one incident in one small Southern Delta town, and say we're living like it's 1807 is fucking stupid.

But since you want to play this game, where's Black America's apology to the Duke Lacross players who had their lives obliterated by clearly false rape allegations?
Okay, you don't know the details of the case but part of it has to do with the district attorney coming to the school in front of a segrated assembly and declaring his ability to end the lives of the black students with a stroke of his penif they don't stop protesting the hanging ropes from the white tree. We are not living in 1807 but three ropes hanging under the "traditionally" white tree is 1807ish. One more thing if I said you were "fucking stupid" this thread would already have been locked!

queencallipygos

BassPlaya wrote: [quote=queencallipygos]
And that ultimate point is: different as the Irish and black expeirences were, there are still similarities -- each suffered at the hands of some other group. Yes, there are differences in the type of suffering, and yes, there are differences in the degree of suffering, but each did suffer at the hands of some other group. And, the same can be said of many other
groups.

That's true, however the Irish have ascended to "whiteness" and that makes a big difference.

I see that you've ignored my point about how ultimately, maybe it behooves us all to be civil and decent to each other because it simply is the right thing to do; after a comment like this, I can only come to the conclusion that this is because for you, everything boils down to what race a person is.

I was always told that that is the definition of the word "racist."

I'll just say "it's been interesting talking to you," and move on. (Plus, it also seems like you seem hellbent on getting the last word in, so -- here, have the soapbox.)

queencallipygos

(sorry, no idea why this was a double-post; carry on.)

windowbox

sausage,
you are revealing yourself to be a very angry person. i think the point has been made before, but no one expects YOU PERSONALLY to bear the responsibility and guilt for centuries of racist violence. your defensiveness is warping your perception of reality so that you are insisting that certain histories or behaviors never happened or have no significance today. its not that different from being a holocaust denier. just because you don't want to believe it happened doesn't mean it didn't.

ilikesausage

windowbox wrote: sausage,
you are revealing yourself to be a very angry person.

I don't feel angry.

i think the point has been made before, but no one expects YOU PERSONALLY to bear the responsibility and guilt for centuries of racist violence.

Just the entirety of American society, right? Like those cops on Lefferts?

your defensiveness is warping your perception of reality so that you are insisting that certain histories or behaviors never happened or have no significance today.

Proff?

its not that different from being a holocaust denier.

Since I lost family in that whole shebang, I'd say you need to STFU.

just because you don't want to believe it happened doesn't mean it didn't.

Where did I deny....anything? Proff please?

anonymous

So we can't even talk about the Holocaust? May I ask a question that might give perspective on 100 years? Almost a million have died in Iraq since the invasion, and billions of dollars in damage and lost time and memories, do you think the effects of that will be felt for those people in ahundred years? There are people alive today that are 114 years old, do you think they still feel? 100 years is 10 years older than my granfather was when he died in 1980. 100 years is 3 or 4 generations. George Wallace was governor of Alabama in the late 60' and he said "segregation now and forever" and the president at time agreed in private like ilks.

ilikesausage

guru wrote: So we can't even talk about the Holocaust? May I ask a question that might give perspective on 100 years? Almost a million have died in Iraq since the invasion, and billions of dollars in damage and lost time and memories, do you think the effects of that will be felt for those people in ahundred years? There are people alive today that are 114 years old, do you think they still feel? 100 years is 10 years older than my granfather was when he died in 1980. 100 years is 3 or 4 generations. George Wallace was governor of Alabama in the late 60' and he said "segregation now and forever" and the president at time agreed in private like ilks.

Wanna talk about the holocuast? Okay, let's talk about the holocuast.

A sick POS tired to wipe out a race of people (Jews, to which I belong) and succeeding in taking out 6 million of them. For those who survived, their belongings were stolen, homes destroyed, their families ripped apart and never to be seen again (Sound familiar?).

Afterwards, did the bullshit stop? Of course not. When said people tried to create their own nation, the Muslims (who never had a claim to that area anyway) decided to get all pissy and blow up them up there too. First through war, and when that didn't work, through strapping bombs to their chest and walking into schools, stores resturants, etc.....


We could sit on our asses and sob about how the world is so unkind. Or we could get the best revenge by living well. African-Americans should take note.



Let me ask you something:

Let's say AAs haven't had true freedom since 1964. How come since 1965, over 20 million non-white immigrants have come to the United States and have become overwhelmingly middle-class if not outright wealthy, yet we live in a "racist" society? Did you know White people date outside their race more than Blacks? That doesn't sound "racist" to me. Of all racial groups in NYC, Whites were rated "Most Intergrated"? How about how 50% African immigrants graduate college? How about despite 9/11, being a top choice for immigration from the middle east? How about the fact that in the borough of Queens, Blacks have a higher income than whites? If we're soooo racist, then why do Latinos die trying to come here (BTW, Latinos have twice as high as a poverty rate than Blacks, among a larger popualtion, yet commit 4 times less crime in raw numbers)?

windowbox

Ilikesausage wrote: Since another cop has been shot in the Bronx, we'll see if Jesse/Al/Barrone have something to say...

Anyway, Bassplaya, why are you being so heavy? Irish and Black experiences do have simliarites. Irish people were sold for less than Blacks. Also, some Blacks did earn their freedom like Irish did.

And even all that notwithstanding, how come we never hear about how the CEOs of Merril Lynch and American Express are black? Or all the majority black wealthy hoods?


And as for reminding the young ones about slavery, why? Is Slavery going to be any less evil 100 years from now? How about 500? 1000? 1,000,000? What good does it do other than to keep the cycle of hate alive? Are you going to be blaming your behavior on slavery 500 years from now? I guess so.

I don't know what Proff means, but these types of statements are what i was referring to:

1) yes, irish and blacks have some similar experiences. which is one of the reasons that slavery became racialized, because slaveowners did not like irish and black slaves organizing against the economic principle upon which slavery was based. so racial propoganda was used to justify the bondage of the "inferior race." these ideas remain quite prevalent among a lot of white people - not as many as in the past - but they are also prevalent among white immigrants. go ask a russian in bayridge or an albanian in the bronx what they think of african-americans.

2) good question: WHY don't we hear about black CEOs and the black middle class? I would like to hear your response to your own question. I think we should hear more about them too.

3) i don't know what to say about this. why bother learning about slavery - maybe because it's an integral part of this country's history and the history of the north and south american continents.

maybe you just are trying to provoke everyone.

ilikesausage

windowbox wrote: [quote=Ilikesausage]Since another cop has been shot in the Bronx, we'll see if Jesse/Al/Barrone have something to say...

Anyway, Bassplaya, why are you being so heavy? Irish and Black experiences do have simliarites. Irish people were sold for less than Blacks. Also, some Blacks did earn their freedom like Irish did.

And even all that notwithstanding, how come we never hear about how the CEOs of Merril Lynch and American Express are black? Or all the majority black wealthy hoods?


And as for reminding the young ones about slavery, why? Is Slavery going to be any less evil 100 years from now? How about 500? 1000? 1,000,000? What good does it do other than to keep the cycle of hate alive? Are you going to be blaming your behavior on slavery 500 years from now? I guess so.

I don't know what Proff means, but these types of statements are what i was referring to:

1) yes, irish and blacks have some similar experiences. which is one of the reasons that slavery became racialized, because slaveowners did not like irish and black slaves organizing against the economic principle upon which slavery was based. so racial propoganda was used to justify the bondage of the "inferior race." these ideas remain quite prevalent among a lot of white people - not as many as in the past - but they are also prevalent among white immigrants. go ask a russian in bayridge or an albanian in the bronx what they think of african-americans.

2) good question: WHY don't we hear about black CEOs and the black middle class? I would like to hear your response to your own question. I think we should hear more about them too.

3) i don't know what to say about this. why bother learning about slavery - maybe because it's an integral part of this country's history and the history of the north and south american continents.

maybe you just are trying to provoke everyone.


1) Mass media does feed into how foriegners precieve Americans including Black Americans. But then again, I see young Black youth who walk around trying to act like the clowns they see on BET, so who's the dumb ones?

2) Becuase if we start showing successful African-Americans, it would put a gaping hole in the urban welfare class victim mentlaity that says Inner-city Blacks can do no better than drugs and crime. Not to mention tear down more racial barriers and expose the truth about what's really to blame for low achievement among some AA communites. And yes, becuase subruban White America doesn't want to change it's image of Blacks either. So it's two pronged.

3) Learn about it? Yes. Constiently throw it in people's faces and use it to judge and smear a whole group of people of whom even in that time 99% had little to do with? No. Wanna talk about civil rights? How about a chapter on the white folks like the Freedom Riders and Eisenhower or maybe the Underground Railroad who made civil rights possible? Or does that not fit your racial world view?

homeowner

Ilikesausage wrote:
And as for reminding the young ones about slavery, why? Is Slavery going to be any less evil 100 years from now? How about 500? 1000? 1,000,000? What good does it do other than to keep the cycle of hate alive? Are you going to be blaming your behavior on slavery 500 years from now? I guess so.

Elie Weisel wrote: I decided to devote my life to telling the story because I felt that having survived I owe something to the dead. and anyone who does not remember betrays them again.

Ilikesausage wrote: 3) Learn about it? Yes. Constiently throw it in people's faces and use it to judge and smear a whole group of people of whom even in that time 99% had little to do with? No. Wanna talk about civil rights? How about a chapter on the white folks like the Freedom Riders and Eisenhower or maybe the Underground Railroad who made civil rights possible? Or does that not fit your racial world view?

Let me get this straight. You're saying that in in 1865 99% of whites in America had little to do with slavery that existed in the US? And that the civil rights movement gives short shrift to white people such as the Freedon Riders and Eisenhower? Okkkaaaayyyyyy.

Look Black History is AMERICAN history. The story of slavery and repression in the US is not the story of black america, its the story of how people can abuse and mistreat their fellow man and justify it based upon centuries of lies, stereotypes, misconceptions, and bias. It is part of a long line of stories about the way humans brutalize each other. It is a short trip from slavery to the holocaust and back again. Failing to teach these lessons learned on the backs of hundreds of thousands of innocent people only guarantees that in the future it will happen again.

guvna

What a nice, lively debate. Any conclusions accepted by all yet? I sense an imminent agreement to disagree any day now . . . .

anonymous

all this talk about learning history...
who initially sold blacks into slavery???

-J.L.

anonymous

On another note, Texas has approached 400 human beings executed on Death Row so far in 2007, and it is only September! One guy was executed because he was in a car 80 feet away while someone was shot in a driveway, the shooter was also executed. Andrew Jackson said "one is a majority". Sausage, since you think we are pre-disposed to commit crime how many of those 400 bodies should be black? I know Texas and Louisiana are Fourth World countries, but please, indulge me.

guvna

guru wrote: On another note, Texas has approached 400 human beings executed on Death Row so far in 2007, and it is only September! One guy was executed because he was in a car 80 feet away while someone was shot in a driveway, the shooter was also executed. Andrew Jackson said "one is a majority". Sausage, since you think we are pre-disposed to commit crime how many of those 400 bodies should be black? I know Texas and Louisiana are Fourth World countries, but please, indulge me.

Thats 402 executions since 1982. 22 in 2007. Average about 16 per year. Not that I agree with capital punishment, but the way you interpreted the numbers was misleading.

Of the 22 this year, about 7 were black, 6 hispanic, and 11 white. The numbers are a little off, but I dont have time to double check them :oops: Asians seem to be very successful at avoiding executions in Texas :idea:

EDIT: Texas are very mechanical about executions. Look at their website. It is creepy looking at the last statements of the convicts: http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/executedoffenders.htm

I dont have the answers regarding crime and punishment, but my heart tells me this is wrong.

windowbox

wayout wrote: all this talk about learning history...
who initially sold blacks into slavery???

-J.L.

some were kidnapped by slave traders from Europe; some were sold by tribal chiefs. i suppose you're trying to get at the fact that some blacks were partly responsible for the slave trade, in order to prove that - what, racism is justified, that blacks not whites are to blame for all of the suffering of their ancestors in america, that there is no racial power differential in america? really, what is your point? come out and say it.

jackson

Guvna wrote: What a nice, lively debate. Any conclusions accepted by all yet? I sense an imminent agreement to disagree any day now . . . .

Word! How long can this keep going???

anonymous

I would like it to stop, not the words so much - they don't hurt, but the deeds; if the deeds stopped the words would follow shortly.

ilikesausage

guru wrote: Sausage, since you think we are pre-disposed to commit crime how many of those 400 bodies should be black?

Considering I said no such thing, I would say those who commited the crimes are the bodies being fried. Which, as I see, is a lot of white bodies. So much for the death penalty being racist. Many equally as horrific crimes never reach the chair due to plea deals and snitching contracts.

As far as my statstics on race and crime, you would take note of two things:

When said people are richer, crime is equal among races. And two, it seems those Blue welfare cities have the most crime. Maybe it really isn't a "Great Society" after all.

ilikesausage

homeowner wrote: [quote=Ilikesausage]
And as for reminding the young ones about slavery, why? Is Slavery going to be any less evil 100 years from now? How about 500? 1000? 1,000,000? What good does it do other than to keep the cycle of hate alive? Are you going to be blaming your behavior on slavery 500 years from now? I guess so.

Elie Weisel wrote: I decided to devote my life to telling the story because I felt that having survived I owe something to the dead. and anyone who does not remember betrays them again.

Ilikesausage wrote: 3) Learn about it? Yes. Constiently throw it in people's faces and use it to judge and smear a whole group of people of whom even in that time 99% had little to do with? No. Wanna talk about civil rights? How about a chapter on the white folks like the Freedom Riders and Eisenhower or maybe the Underground Railroad who made civil rights possible? Or does that not fit your racial world view?

Let me get this straight. You're saying that in in 1865 99% of whites in America had little to do with slavery that existed in the US? And that the civil rights movement gives short shrift to white people such as the Freedon Riders and Eisenhower? Okkkaaaayyyyyy.

Look Black History is AMERICAN history. The story of slavery and repression in the US is not the story of black america, its the story of how people can abuse and mistreat their fellow man and justify it based upon centuries of lies, stereotypes, misconceptions, and bias. It is part of a long line of stories about the way humans brutalize each other. It is a short trip from slavery to the holocaust and back again. Failing to teach these lessons learned on the backs of hundreds of thousands of innocent people only guarantees that in the future it will happen again.



You're not telling me anything new. nowhere did I deny
A) Slavery happened and it's brutality was legendary,
African-Americans faced unjust discirmination,
C) Humainty isn't brutal to each other,
or D) White folks have tended to run roughshot over other people's on occasion.

What I do counter is
A) This is a vaild excuse to behave the way I see too many inner-city AAs behave,
Zero progress has been made on civil rights,
C) Only Whites are racist,
D) AAs can't make in American society due to "oppression"
E) White folk should be limited in their ability to live in Bed-Stuy


And the vast majority of Whites did not own slaves. In fact, the vast majority of Whites are not decended from Europeans that even lived here during the time of slavery....

queencallipygos

Ilikesausage wrote: Considering I said no such thing, I would say those who commited the crimes are the bodies being fried. Which, as I see, is a lot of white bodies. So much for the death penalty being racist.

Small point -- there actually are a few studies that show that there is indeed a racial bias when it comes to the likelihood of the death penalty being assigned to a given case (here's one source: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=105). Yes, people of all races are executed, but there have been studies that show that when you have a black man and a white man found guilty of the same crime, the black man is a little more likely to be given the death penalty, while the white man is a little more likely to be given life imprisonment.

Just remarking on that tangent. As you were.

ilikesausage

queencallipygos wrote: [quote=Ilikesausage]Considering I said no such thing, I would say those who commited the crimes are the bodies being fried. Which, as I see, is a lot of white bodies. So much for the death penalty being racist.

Small point -- there actually are a few studies that show that there is indeed a racial bias when it comes to the likelihood of the death penalty being assigned to a given case (here's one source: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=105). Yes, people of all races are executed, but there have been studies that show that when you have a black man and a white man found guilty of the same crime, the black man is a little more likely to be given the death penalty, while the white man is a little more likely to be given life imprisonment.

Just remarking on that tangent. As you were.



I do realize that crimes commited against whites in general tend to stoke more reaction. A good example is the missing child cases where they all were white. However, not all of the variables were put in play.

One thing the study didn't focus on was the makeup of the juries in these cases. I would imagine the likelyhood of a death penalty conviction rests more on the racial biases on the jury in corrloation to the victim:


Example 1: White Neo-Nazi robs and kills a Black man. Jury is comprised of 8 Blacks out of 12. Neo Nazi gets fried.

Example 2: Two Black men rape and kill a white woman jogging in park (ala Central Park Jogger). Jury has 9 white yuppies out of 12. Black kids get fried.


People tend to feel for people they presume are more like them. Personally, if some German skinhead attacked and killed a Jewish lady, I'd probably feel more anger than some random Black kid shooting another random Black kid. That's simply human nature.


Maybe someone should study that.

anonymous

If we're soooo racist, then why do Latinos die trying to come here (BTW, Latinos have twice as high as a poverty rate than Blacks, among a larger popualtion, yet commit 4 times less crime in raw numbers)?

Sausage, since you think we are pre-disposed to commit crime how many of those 400 bodies should be black?



Considering I said no such thing, I would say those who commited the crimes are the bodies being fried.

If it is not poverty is it prediposition, or genetics?

ilikesausage

guru wrote:

If it is not poverty is it prediposition, or genetics?

It's a collision of several different factors:

While Latinos are poorer, they also tend to be more employed. Second, it's a cultrual issue. The Liberal/Academic/Pop culture establishment has brainwashed America's Black youth into beileveing they can't achieve as Black men in America. People like Al Sharpton and Jesse "Reparations" Jackson have made it their stock and trade to remind AAs that whatever ails you in life is the fault of "the white man". This, combined with welfare benefits that serve as a disencentive to work, has fed a cycle of non-responsiblity, single parenthood, and inner hate/"The world owes me" attitudes.

You can see it in people like BassPlaya. Everything in his mind always comes down to the Evil White Man. Never is it your or any Black person's fault that the trash floats on the streets, kids get shot for looking at each other crosseyed, dropout rates are abmysmal and the Cops are assholes. No, It's a grand conspiracy done by every white folk in America to put down the Black man. :roll:


African-Americans who move away from this tend to see things differently and succeed more. Hence the gap in success between the Big cities and Blacks in the subrubs/South.

anonymous

"That's simply human nature." Sausage


No my friend, that is your nature.

ilikesausage

guru wrote: "That's simply human nature." Sausage


No my friend, that is your nature.

Bullshit. It's a proven fact people identify with people like them.

bassplaya

Afterwards, did the bullshit stop? Of course not. When said people tried to create their own nation, the Muslims (who never had a claim to that area anyway) decided to get all pissy and blow up them up there too. First through war, and when that didn't work, through strapping bombs to their chest and walking into schools, stores resturants, etc.....

We can do without the Israeli propaganda and malignment of the people who occupied that land at the time that the state was created i.e. the Palastinians.

We could sit on our asses and sob about how the world is so unkind. Or we could get the best revenge by living well. African-Americans should take note.

I don't think the UN is going to take a piece of land that belongs to someone else and give it to African Americans.

Let me ask you something:

Let's say AAs haven't had true freedom since 1964. How come since 1965, over 20 million non-white immigrants have come to the United States and have become overwhelmingly middle-class if not outright wealthy, yet we live in a "racist" society? Did you know White people date outside their race more than Blacks? That doesn't sound "racist" to me. Of all racial groups in NYC, Whites were rated "Most Intergrated"? How about how 50% African immigrants graduate college? How about despite 9/11, being a top choice for immigration from the middle east? How about the fact that in the borough of Queens, Blacks have a higher income than whites? If we're soooo racist, then why do Latinos die trying to come here (BTW, Latinos have twice as high as a poverty rate than Blacks, among a larger popualtion, yet commit 4 times less crime in raw numbers)?

As usual this is flawed reasoning on your behalf. The fact that someone leaves their own country to come here means that they are highly motivated otherwise they would just stay in their home country. With that kind of motivation no wonder they do well here and comparing them to natives is an apples and oranges affair.

The "Latinos" and I assume you mean Mexicans for the most part risk their lives coming here because their life sucks where they live but again these are the most motivated people that are willing to risk their lives to come here and for every one of them there could be 1,000 or more that aren't as motivated.

If you're going to make comparisons, make them based on those people that stay in their own country, if you did that you might be surprised about what you find.

windowbox

i'm just waiting for him to start dissing on puerto ricans versus mexicans.

queencallipygos

Ilikesausage wrote: [quote=queencallipygos][quote=Ilikesausage]Considering I said no such thing, I would say those who commited the crimes are the bodies being fried. Which, as I see, is a lot of white bodies. So much for the death penalty being racist.

Small point -- there actually are a few studies that show that there is indeed a racial bias when it comes to the likelihood of the death penalty being assigned to a given case (here's one source: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=105). Yes, people of all races are executed, but there have been studies that show that when you have a black man and a white man found guilty of the same crime, the black man is a little more likely to be given the death penalty, while the white man is a little more likely to be given life imprisonment.

I do realize that crimes commited against whites in general tend to stoke more reaction. A good example is the missing child cases where they all were white. However, not all of the variables were put in play.

But...I...wasn't talking about crimes where white people were the victim. I was comparing cases where a white man was the CRIMINAL against identical crimes where a BLACK man is the criminal. There have indeed been studies that show that when you have a white criminal, he is more likely to get life imprisonment than when it's a black criminal.

The race of the victim is irrelevant to what I was saying.[/i]