advice on taking over a rent-stabilized apt

cabaki

So my coworker is moving out of a ridiculously cheap one bedroom rent-stabilized apt he's been living in for 15 years, and wants to pass it on to me. He's notified the landlord in writing at least 3 times that he has a colleague that wants to take it over, with no acknowlegement or response from the landlord yet.

My coworker's lease ends next August, yet he's moving out this december. He's willing to sub lease it to me until his lease is over in august, but I'm only willing to do so if i believe that I will be granted a lease to the apt when his expires, or if his lease is renewed and i continue to sub lease from him indefinitelty.

What complicates matters is that I'm currently holding the lease for a 2-bedroom in the slope in which i sublease half of the place to a roommate, so i would need to find someone to sublet my room while i sublet his place. I'm hesistant to break my lease while i sublet this place, because i dont know if the landlord is going to grant me a lease after my coworkers is over, and i want to leave my options open in case i decide to stay where i am.

I'm aware of the squatters law, and was wondering whether subleasing the place from my coworker in the meantime will give me a better chance of getting the lease to the place when his lease expires, because it proves that I've been paying rent and the landlord's been accepting it.

Now i realize that the landlord might have other ideas in regards to the apt when my coworkers lease is up, so i might be taking my chances in assuming i would get the lease.

Does anyone have any advice in how to approach this situation? Any advice is appeciated, thanks.

carmen

I have nothing to add about the rent stabilization, but if you do end up subletting your room in dec/janish I may be interested in it (just an fyi...)

good luck dealing with the landlords, that has a tendency to suck.

cabaki

good to know, i will def contact you if i do decide to sublet my place.

fyi, its in the 1000 range, with your own bathroom in your room.

brooklynpotter

is this in a larger building or small brownstone-y building? and the other one?

brooklynjack

there's a good chance the landlord will want to renovate the apartment in order to increase the rent. I don't thin I'd hold my breath on this one.

daver

I have no idea, but here is another place to ask, if you haven't been there already. http://tenant.net/

cabaki

its in an apt building of 40 units.

brooklynpotter

and the one here?

restless native

Unless you're a close relative as in daughter, wife, mother, etc, you don't have a chance for that apt. I'm not sure why your coworker wrote to tell the landlord you were taking it over, I'm sure he has zero interest in continuing to lose money on it when there are certain 'types' of people that will walk in with a blank check (if it's in the Slope that is).

If I were yous, I would've not said anything to the LL, moved in, and seen how far I could take it. Once you are found out, then you could try the squatter's law thing. Either way it doesn't look good.

cabaki

my current apt is in a 3 story, free market townhouse.

brooklynpotter

the kind that's been converted to coop but there are some older apartments left?

cabaki

the landlord is renovating my current bldg floor by floor, and jacking up the rents each year. from what I see now, he is not turning them into co-ops (yet.)

brooklynpotter

if that's what he's doing, and you illegally sublease, you could be screwed

cabaki

restless native - its not very helpful to suggest what I should have done, as its a done deal already.

and fyi - my colleague got the place originally through his coworker. the bigger issue is what the landlords' intentions are, and not what the relationship with the current tenant is (thats an issue with rent control apts.)

brooklynpotter

i think you should be worried more about what your landlord is up to

cabaki

brooklynpotter wrote: if that's what he's doing, and you illegally sublease, you could be screwed

screwed in what way? and what does his renovation plans have to do with it?

I was also thinking of cancelling my lease early if I can swing that, since he's such a bastard - ask steve.

brooklynpotter

if he's renovating he's going to try to get rid of tenants so he can get higher rents. if your lease says you can't sublet and you do, you've broken that lease.

do you want to end up in housing court? do you want to end up homeless? his being an ass really has little to do with anything if you break the law.

cabaki

bp - I get everything you said in those last few posts.

at this point my best bet is to break my current lease, and sublet my coworkers place.

he's even willing to renew the lease next august and rent it out to me if the landlord doesn't grant me one in due time.

brooklynpotter

i hope you didn't think i was meaning to be snotty, i was just giving you the landlord's perspective to keep you from getting in trouble

kittycat

Cabaki wrote: its in an apt building of 40 units.

If it's 100 8th - don't sub-lease - you'll lose.

cabaki

no, not at all bp - I took your advice as very matter of fact, and I appreciate it. it not worth the trouble, I agree.

and no, its not in the bldg that was mentioned. but I've been doing research this morning on subleasing, and as a tenant of a rent stab. apt, you have the right to sublease your apt if its reasonable, and the landlord has to accept it.

on a mobile phone right now, but will send a link later.

ben

Cabaki wrote: bp - I get everything you said in those last few posts.

at this point my best bet is to break my current lease, and sublet my coworkers place.

he's even willing to renew the lease next august and rent it out to me if the landlord doesn't grant me one in due time.

Keep in mind that your coworker can't just continue to renew and have you live there. If the landlord finds out, which he probably will since you've already asked 3 times, he can take your coworker to court for possession of the apartment because it is not his/her primary residence.

If you sublet it needs to be approved by the landlord, I don't believe they can unreasonably deny you, but there is a limit to how long the sublet can last and it may not allow for a lease renewal.

Now, if you don't request the sublet and you just start paying the rent you might get lucky. If the landlord accepts a rent check from you with your name on it for 3 months in a row then he has acknowledged that you are the tenant of record and you will be entitled to a lease renewal. Of course if you does not accept your rent then everyone can be evicted.

So if I was in your shoes I would get in contact with the landlord to see what can be done before you give up your current place, unless you want to roll the dice.

Please verify all of this with the appropriate agencies as I'm not a L&T lawyer but this is my understanding of how things work.

armchair_warrior

i wouldn't risk it. most of the time landlords prefer to pick their own tenants.

another reason is if they renovate they can charge more. you best save yourself the trouble and find a place with better rent.

ilovecarbs

Given the fact that it's rent stabilized, the landlord is very lkely to increase the rent significantly after your colleague's lease runs out and he moves out. Remember that your colleague might be paying a preferantial rent, so even with rent stabilization, it's still going to rise., ESP. if the landlord does any upgrades/renovations.

If you are subletting without expectations of a lease renewal, i would think it's a viable option. But the landlord is either going to jack up the price or rent it to someone he personally knows. Just something you might want to consider since you will need long term accomodation either way.

vanilla

i got my rent stablized apt from a friend who was moving out when her lease was up. at that time, the landlord did zero renovations and let me move in for less than the 20% rent increase - the amount legally allowed (i believe) for a new lease holder on the same apt. with no renovations done.

in my case, my friend always paid her rent on time and thus the landlord loved her and was eager to rent me the apt.

***although my apt. is a good deal now, i must point out at the time i originally rented the place it was at or just below market rate (and a weird layout). hope this helps.

steve

Cabaki wrote: [quote=brooklynpotter]if that's what he's doing, and you illegally sublease, you could be screwed

screwed in what way? and what does his renovation plans have to do with it?

I was also thinking of cancelling my lease early if I can swing that, since he's such a bastard - ask steve.

Oh yes he is, and I know a bunch of other people that will chime in on that...

cabaki

steve wrote: [quote=Cabaki][quote=brooklynpotter]if that's what he's doing, and you illegally sublease, you could be screwed

screwed in what way? and what does his renovation plans have to do with it?

I was also thinking of cancelling my lease early if I can swing that, since he's such a bastard - ask steve.

Oh yes he is, and I know a bunch of other people that will chime in on that...

This has nothing to do with anything, but its hilarious to see your banner ad showing up right above your last post, steve!

1646412

Ben wrote: [quote=Cabaki]bp - I get everything you said in those last few posts.

at this point my best bet is to break my current lease, and sublet my coworkers place.

he's even willing to renew the lease next august and rent it out to me if the landlord doesn't grant me one in due time.

Keep in mind that your coworker can't just continue to renew and have you live there. If the landlord finds out, which he probably will since you've already asked 3 times, he can take your coworker to court for possession of the apartment because it is not his/her primary residence.

If you sublet it needs to be approved by the landlord, I don't believe they can unreasonably deny you, but there is a limit to how long the sublet can last and it may not allow for a lease renewal.

Now, if you don't request the sublet and you just start paying the rent you might get lucky. If the landlord accepts a rent check from you with your name on it for 3 months in a row then he has acknowledged that you are the tenant of record and you will be entitled to a lease renewal. Of course if you does not accept your rent then everyone can be evicted.

So if I was in your shoes I would get in contact with the landlord to see what can be done before you give up your current place, unless you want to roll the dice.

Please verify all of this with the appropriate agencies as I'm not a L&T lawyer but this is my understanding of how things work.

I have to agree with Ben both as a rent stabilized tenant and as someone familiar with real estate.

Since your co-worker has already shown his hand as far as wanting you to be the new tenant, the landlord is unlikely to allow you as a sublease. If it were the other way around, it probably would have been more effective.

When the apartment is vacated by your co-worker, the landlord is entitled to a 20% vacancy increase, plus an increase that is fractional, but proportional to the length of time the departing tenant was renting, plus an increase that is fractional but proportional to any improvements that are made. And then there is the approved percentage for the lease (one- or two-year).

So it is obviously in the landlord's interest to have a vacancy, and dependent on the landlord's moral tendencies, it may be in their best interest to have someone who can't tell what sort of improvements have been made and what the rent had previously been.

There are specific rules as to who may or may not have a rent stabilized lease passed along to them without all the increases mentioned above and, unfortunately, you wouldn't seem to meet any of them. As a sublet, you'd probably be there till the end of the lease, if you are allowed at all. My strong suspicion is that the landlord would allow your co-worker to break the lease without consequence for the last eight months rather than allow a sublease. It would be crazy, absolutely crazy, for the landlord to do otherwise.

Sorry.

cabaki

1646412 wrote: [quote=Ben][quote=Cabaki]bp - I get everything you said in those last few posts.

at this point my best bet is to break my current lease, and sublet my coworkers place.

he's even willing to renew the lease next august and rent it out to me if the landlord doesn't grant me one in due time.

Keep in mind that your coworker can't just continue to renew and have you live there. If the landlord finds out, which he probably will since you've already asked 3 times, he can take your coworker to court for possession of the apartment because it is not his/her primary residence.

If you sublet it needs to be approved by the landlord, I don't believe they can unreasonably deny you, but there is a limit to how long the sublet can last and it may not allow for a lease renewal.

Now, if you don't request the sublet and you just start paying the rent you might get lucky. If the landlord accepts a rent check from you with your name on it for 3 months in a row then he has acknowledged that you are the tenant of record and you will be entitled to a lease renewal. Of course if you does not accept your rent then everyone can be evicted.

So if I was in your shoes I would get in contact with the landlord to see what can be done before you give up your current place, unless you want to roll the dice.

Please verify all of this with the appropriate agencies as I'm not a L&T lawyer but this is my understanding of how things work.

I have to agree with Ben both as a rent stabilized tenant and as someone familiar with real estate.

Since your co-worker has already shown his hand as far as wanting you to be the new tenant, the landlord is unlikely to allow you as a sublease. If it were the other way around, it probably would have been more effective.


When the apartment is vacated by your co-worker, the landlord is entitled to a 20% vacancy increase, plus an increase that is fractional, but proportional to the length of time the departing tenant was renting, plus an increase that is fractional but proportional to any improvements that are made. And then there is the approved percentage for the lease (one- or two-year).

So it is obviously in the landlord's interest to have a vacancy, and dependent on the landlord's moral tendencies, it may be in their best interest to have someone who can't tell what sort of improvements have been made and what the rent had previously been.

There are specific rules as to who may or may not have a rent stabilized lease passed along to them without all the increases mentioned above and, unfortunately, you wouldn't seem to meet any of them. As a sublet, you'd probably be there till the end of the lease, if you are allowed at all. My strong suspicion is that the landlord would allow your co-worker to break the lease without consequence for the last eight months rather than allow a sublease. It would be crazy, absolutely crazy, for the landlord to do otherwise.

Sorry.

In reponse to the last post, thanks for your advice but i'm unsure why you would say "the landlord is unlikely to allow you as a sublease". As you already know, a rent-stabilized tenant can sublease the apt unless its "unreasonable". And if the landlord does not respond to nofication of intent to sublease, it is considered consent by the landlord to do so, and in this case he has unwillingly consented by not acknowledging my coworkers notification. Am I missing something?

In the long run - yes, I will be rolling the dice in regards to me being able to stay past the lease end if i dont get a good reponse from the landlord before then. But because I know my current apartment's rent is going to skyrocket, im almost willing to take the chance because i'd be leaving here the same time my coworkers lease is up (our leases end a month apart from each other.) Plus, my current landlord would be thrilled to break my lease because he's gutting the floor below me, and would be able to gut mine at the same time and get new tenants for both.

My coworkers lease ends next August, so I'll definitely have plenty of time to find a new place before then. My mom also lives in the city so i'll always have a backup place to crash if it doesnt work out and im in between apts.

vanilla

Cabaki wrote:

In reponse to the last post, thanks for your advice but i'm unsure why you would say "the landlord is unlikely to allow you as a sublease". As you already know, a rent-stabilized tenant can sublease the apt unless its "unreasonable". And if the landlord does not respond to nofication of intent to sublease, it is considered consent by the landlord to do so, and in this case he has unwillingly consented by not acknowledging my coworkers notification. Am I missing something?

"unreasonable" in my 3rd person experience seems to depend upon the landlord. a rapid eviction happened one building over to mine due to subletting. also, part of the case the landlord made for evicting the people in the apt. above mine was that someone was living in the apt. who wasn't on the lease. the cases weren't as simple as just that... but basically, the landlord has no interest in renting an apt. for way under market when a lease could be terminated or subletters evicted and thus the apt. rent increased --- s/he's a landlord!

in terms of "unwillingly consented"::: the landlord could very easily evict you as soon as you move in for not properly subletting or it could be totally sweet rent --- let us know what happens!