Woman Mugged on Franklin Avenue

southeast

When it is assumed that the Jewish person was a victim of a crime BECAUSE they are Jewish, I find the assumption more problematic.

Totally agree.  They are likely assumed to be simply targets that offer a high reward with little effort and risk.

clayfilms

Just some facts:

1)- she grew up in the nabe and was two blocks away from her house. 

2)- not that this matters AT ALL, but she's latina, not a 'white, newcomer'.

I think it's more of an issue of brutal, random and very sudden violence on a woman that makes this story so striking. It's very frightening that there was no warning- no sign whatsoever, before they struck. 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/victim-brutal-crown-heights-beating-speaks-article-1.1982551

Thanks for providing actual facts. I pray that the 5K reward prompts the swift arrest of the men who did this. 

whynot_31

I suspect an agreed upon definition of "rare" will always be elusive, because many residents come from neighborhoods which objectively have less violent crime, and others come from areas (or time periods in this area) with objectively more crime.

mike dunlap

As far as quantifying, again, in southeast Crown Heights, almost daily (multiple times a week) there is either a mugging, assault, home invasions, burglaries, phone snatching, car wheels stolen, etc. most of which are not as violent as this crime which, rightfully, hit the news (and I noted that above - "I would agree though that violence of this particular nature/magnitude is not too common (lucky for us."), but violent and/or scary nonetheless and for the most part, not all reported by the major news networks.  

OK.  Thanks for the details.

Looking at the most recent 71st Precinct stats, there are an average of 2 incidents per day in the categories typically classified as violent crimes - murder, rape, robbery, felony assault. ~98% of the cases are from the latter 2.  (This isn't to say the other crime types aren't serious... just to keep it focused to violent crime since that was the focus here originally.)

Obviously we can't determine from just these numbers what % of these cases are between people who know each other or are from the high risk groups I reference.  But I would guess it's the very large majority.  I see news of the anti-Semitic incidents and occasional stories like this one, but those certainly aren't one per day or even week.  

Anyway, thanks for the info.  We obviously disagree on what we consider "rare", but it's an interesting discussion. 

southeast

Thanks.  I see your perspective.  As far as the recent police stats, there are incidents where the police do not file a report or report the crimes in a "lower" category.  If I'm not mistaking, this is an issue all over the city.

Using the link @whynot_31 posted (http://crownheights.info/crime/), I note the following: http://crownheights.info/crime/456733/attack-on-jewish-woman-prevented-by-nearby-shuls/.  These types of cases go unreported.  If it really happened as depicted, it could have easily escalated to something much worse if no one heard the woman's screams, and it undoubtedly impacts the local residents sense of safety/security.  

When I hear stories like this almost daily, along with all the other non-violent crimes (e.g., theft), I just don't feel as safe as I would like to feel, and as a result, the word "rare" would not be how I describe crime in general in this area.  But we can agree to disagree.

eastbloc

I don't hear stories like this almost daily.  The local Jewish press is as alarmist as it gets in terms of crime reporting, and even they don't have daily stories of criminal violence in Crown Heights.

I'm sorry that you don't feel safe.  This is my 12th year in New York City, and I honestly feel safer in Crown Heights than the Manhattan neighborhoods I inhabited prior to moving out here.  I know my neighbors, I know what to expect of the neighborhood, and I know how to conduct myself in an urban environment where one is never really safe from being a mark if one doesn't pay attention.

I recently had a friend of mine who was visiting from the UK on business get mugged on Christopher Street with a brick.  Coming out of a bar, looking at his phone, a couple of guys ran up to him and smashed him in the face without warning or any threat.  And you can bet your butt that incident didn't even make the news.

If you're scared of what may happen to you because you're living in Crown Heights, you don't really have much of a clue as to where the risks lie.  If you think stranger-on-stranger crime here is bad, you should definitely stay away from places like Hell's Kitchen or the Bowery, especially late at night after you've been drinking.

southeast

@eastbloc - Call the local Jewish press as you wish, but the fact is that this happens; they are not making this stuff up.  

And congratulations on your 12 years in NYC.  I was born, raised, and live here, in Crown Heights, which is quite a bit more than 12 years.  I know how to conduct myself, and I never once said I'm scared.  I'm thinking of my loved ones who may appear easier targets.  I am thinking of friends who were victims of violence, at one time or another, or personally affected by violence (e.g., a family member of a victim). As a result, we all do  what is necessary to try and remain safe, but you can never be sure.

Finding it necessary to remind your loved ones that they should leave their jewelry at home and to hide their phones when they go out past 7pm in the winter or at 9pm in the summer (when the wrong people are hanging out outside) is a constant reminder that this area is not safe.  Seeing the stories that happen, confirms it. 

(And daytime does not guarantee safety either; there are stories of muggings happening in middle of the day, but less often.)

I'll admit that this may just be the decades of memories talking, but from what I'm still seeing, we are far from out of the woods just yet.  It's getting better, but still quite a bit more to go.

whynot_31

Returning to the crime:

Two men arrested, one more is sought.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141023/crown-heights/two-men-arrested-violent-crown-heights-mugging-third-sought-by-police

mike dunlap

Finding it necessary to remind your loved ones that they should leave their jewelry at home and to hide their phones when they go out past 7pm in the winter or at 9pm in the summer (when the wrong people are hanging out outside) is a constant reminder that this area is not safe.

Apparently my area of Crown Heights (Franklin south of EP) is on a different planet from your area, crime-wise. I would never even think of having to do that in my area.

Man, that sucks. Stay safe over there.

whynot_31

Third man in crime that started the thread is arrested.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141103/crown-heights/third-man-arrested-violent-mugging-of-crown-heights-woman

clayfilms

Third man in crime that started the thread is arrested.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141103/crown-heights/third-man-arrested-violent-mugging-of-crown-heights-woman

good. 

mr. met

I don't hear stories like this almost daily.  The local Jewish press is as alarmist as it gets in terms of crime reporting, and even they don't have daily stories of criminal violence in Crown Heights.

I'm sorry that you don't feel safe.  This is my 12th year in New York City, and I honestly feel safer in Crown Heights than the Manhattan neighborhoods I inhabited prior to moving out here.  I know my neighbors, I know what to expect of the neighborhood, and I know how to conduct myself in an urban environment where one is never really safe from being a mark if one doesn't pay attention.

I recently had a friend of mine who was visiting from the UK on business get mugged on Christopher Street with a brick.  Coming out of a bar, looking at his phone, a couple of guys ran up to him and smashed him in the face without warning or any threat.  And you can bet your butt that incident didn't even make the news.

If you're scared of what may happen to you because you're living in Crown Heights, you don't really have much of a clue as to where the risks lie.  If you think stranger-on-stranger crime here is bad, you should definitely stay away from places like Hell's Kitchen or the Bowery, especially late at night after you've been drinking.

Your tone is condescending.

And the fact that something happened to your friend in Manhattan is pretty irrelevant.

mike dunlap

Your tone is condescending.

And the fact that something happened to your friend in Manhattan is pretty irrelevant.

Maybe so, but the point is accurate. 

 People are generally horrible at risk analysis, especially when crime is involved. I've had several people outside NYC ask me if Crown Heights is safe (clearly implying it's not). This is usually from people who live in suburbs where they have to drive everywhere. The odds of them being killed or greatly harmed by a stranger using a car where they live is many, many times higher than they are with a stranger attacking someone in Crown Heights... but for whatever reasons, they don't want to believe this.

mr. met

I guess people view the risk of a car accident differently than the risk of being punched in the face and robbed.

 

I don't find that hard to understand.

eastbloc

Your tone is condescending.

You're very astute, as always, mr. met.

And the fact that something happened to your friend in Manhattan is pretty irrelevant.

It's anecdotal, but so is the situation in the OP, and that's the point. I was responding to what I saw a panicked view of the security situation in our streets that I don't feel is warranted.

mr. met

Your tone is condescending.

You're very astute, as always, mr. met.

And the fact that something happened to your friend in Manhattan is pretty irrelevant.

It's anecdotal, but so is the situation in the OP, and that's the point. I was responding to what I saw a panicked view of the security situation in our streets that I don't feel is warranted.

 

You don't have to leave your jewelry at home or hide your phone after 7.  This is true.

 

But it's safer in Manhattan.

 

Being condescending is a bad thing, which most people view as...bad.

eastbloc

I don't feel safer in Manhattan. And I don't mind being bad.

eastbloc

Also something is very broken with quoting here.

mr. met

Yea not sure what happened there.