Criminals on Classon

travelriter

Last week 2 detectives were in my area asking questions. It seems someone was robbed on Classon Ave 5/30 in the morning. I was a bit shaken because for awhile I've been under the illusion that after living here for about 14 years that our neighborhood has become fairly "safe". (At least, compared to 14 years ago.)

However, my street seems to be attracting the criminals lately because when I went outside on Sunday, I was heartbroken to learn that my new gold moped, which I spent hours and hours over the last month decorating with hundreds of beads, crystals, pearls and jewels, had been completely vandalized.

Apparently, several neighbors witnessed a group of drunk people hanging around on Classon Ave Sat night, so perhaps they were the ones who destroyed my moped. 

Anyway, although I was pretty upset to see all of the work I'd put into my bike demolished, some good has come of it. Many neighbors and passersby have stopped by to comment, take pictures, and ask about my bike, so my efforts to start all over again and create a much better, an even more blinged out bike have had a positive outcome. 

Some neighbors actually found some of the crystals and butterflies a few blocks away, so if anyone else finds any of the missing pieces, please let me know. Thanks

pheightsresident

That's too bad (and I hope you get to the bottom of things), but, if that's the extent of crime we have to deal with (and robberies happen all over the city), we're in pretty good shape. I remember when this area had significantly more gang activity, shootings, etc. We've come a long way from that point (we've lived here for 16 years). In short, the neighborhood is fairly safe. That said, this is NYC and there will always be a certain element out there, regardless of where you are. Just remember to take common precautions! 

blue_apple

this summer is going to be worse than usual. your instincts are correct. 

though the past 14 years were not an illusion -- crime did decline under mayors rudy and mike. but under this mayor, with the limitations on stop-n-frisk, and a dinkins-like attitude towards minority criminals, we can expect a spike this summer. add to that the genenral emboldering of criminal behavior due to events in baltimore and furgesson and and we have a problem on our hands. 

at a recent community board 9 meeting, a small group of protestors were heard shouting at the police "hands up, don't shoot". say what??!

southeast

It's a shame.  If I'm not mistaking, I saw an article somewhere that for the first time in quite a long time, gun crimes are going up.  I think it's safe to assume that if criminals are using guns more (i.e., not afraid), they will not hesitate when it comes to lesser crimes either.  De Blasio better do something.  I'm blaming the "tone at the top."

mr. met

Good thing blue_apple and southeast aren't jumping to conclusions or rushing to judgment...

 

blue_apple, your reference to "minority criminals" is a little too on-the-nose.  you might want to tone it down. 

crownheightster

I hope we will not see too many instances of violent crime. The neighborhoods I would worry most about, frankly, are Flatbush/PLG/and eastern CH. 

pheightsresident

I agree, crownheighter. 

CHAllMyLife

this summer is going to be worse than usual. your instincts are correct. 

though the past 14 years were not an illusion -- crime did decline under mayors rudy and mike. but under this mayor, with the limitations on stop-n-frisk, and a dinkins-like attitude towards minority criminals, we can expect a spike this summer. add to that the genenral emboldering of criminal behavior due to events in baltimore and furgesson and and we have a problem on our hands. 

at a recent community board 9 meeting, a small group of protestors were heard shouting at the police "hands up, don't shoot". say what??!

If you're so concerned about "minority criminals," can't you find some whites-only compound in Montana to live in?

whynot_31

Even in white-only compounds, the persons committing crimes tend to be in the minority.

It stems from the fact that (for the most part) what society deems "criminal" is an outgrowth of norms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_(social)

Inherently, most of a given society follows the norms.

Hence, if we are looking at crime from a deviancy perspective, criminals will always be a minority within their applicable geographic/class/race/hue or other social construct.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/what-we-mean-when-we-say-race-is-a-social-construct/275872/

For the past several decades, NYC has had such a diverse population that no race/class/hue is in the majority. Whether we like it or not, we are all minorities.

That said, I just hope the NYC's existing deviancy is not validated and amplified during the present adinistration and (perhaps more importantly) the larger socio-economic environment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deviancy_amplification_spiral

The trick to crime and deviancy is figuring out ways to accept and control it, because trying to eliminate it completely often results in a loss of freedoms that most object to.

CHAllMyLife

Even in white-only compounds, the persons committing crimes tend to be in the minority.

It stems from the fact that (for the most part) what society deems "criminal" is an outgrowth of norms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_(social)

Inherently, most of a given society follows the norms.

Hence, if we are looking at crime from a deviancy perspective, criminals will always be a minority within their applicable geographic/class/race/hue or other social construct.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/what-we-mean-when-we-say-race-is-a-social-construct/275872/

For the past several decades, NYC has had such a diverse population that no race/class/hue is in the majority. Whether we like it or not, we are all minorities.

That said, I just hope the NYC's existing deviancy is not validated and amplified during the present adinistration and (perhaps more importantly) the larger socio-economic environment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deviancy_amplification_spiral

The trick to crime and deviancy is figuring out ways to accept and control it, because trying to eliminate it completely often results in a loss of freedoms that most object to.

Do you really think that "minority" means anything other than "member of a non-Caucasian racial group" in this context?

whynot_31

NYC's caucasians seem to not have a lot in common. There is no way that their norms are strong enough to the degree that none of them are criminals:

"White Americans make up 44.6% of New York City's population. According to the survey, there were 3,704,243 White Americans residing in New York City. White Americans of non-Hispanic origin make up 35.1% of the city's population. There are 2,918,976 non-Hispanic whites residing in the city. Much of New York City's European American population consists of individuals of Italian, Irish, German, Russian, Polish, English, and Greek ancestry.[54]

According to the 2006–2008 American Community Survey, the top ten White, European ancestries were the following:

Italian: 8.2% (684,230)
Irish: 5.3% (443,364)
German: 3.6% (296,901)
Russian: 3.1% (260,821)
Polish: 2.8% (237,919)
English: 1.9% (160,472)
Greek: 1.0% (83,575)
French: 0.9% (73,587)
Hungarian: 0.7% (59,225)
Ukrainian: 0.6% (49,643)
Other smaller European ancestries include:

Portuguese: 0.5% (46,384)
Scottish: 0.5% (41,787)
Scotch-Irish: 0.3% (28,770)
Dutch: 0.3% (24,776)
Norwegian: 0.3% (24,737)
Swedish: 0.3% (22,206)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City

newguy88

Well this went off the rails really quickly. Racist comments have no place in what is supposed to be a neighborhood forum.

@travelrighter I saw you on your moped a couple weeks ago on either Vanderbilt or a cross street there abouts. It made me smile! I'm very sorry that some one damaged something you cherished and brought smiles to others. Let me know if you need help blinging it back up!

whynot_31

I think I've seen that moped on Classon. It reminds me of some of the blingy West Indian Day parade costumes.

I wish I could pick a crime theory I liked most. They are all pretty good:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminology

travelriter

Re the race topic...I've lived on Classon for almost 15 years, before the neighborhood became so gentrified, and in all those years, I've never been the victim of a crime in this neighborhood. Anyway, after my moped was vandalized Sat,a few of  my neighbors told me that a group of rowdy, drunk girls were acting crazy around my moped Sat. night, and they were all white.  I don't know if they were the culprits..but I heard about them from several people.

travelriter

Well this went off the rails really quickly. Racist comments have no place in what is supposed to be a neighborhood forum.

From travelriter :

Actually, I'm glad that people often discuss gentrification, race here on this forum. So often we have PC conversations and everyone brags about voting for Obama and their best friend, blah blah. Maybe by having an open dialogue, without putting people on the defensive when they do say something that is often obviously stemming from racism, hopefully people can learn why what they're saying might be offensive and perhaps racist. When I was young I had a friend whose father was a well known professor of what was called "Afro-American studies" at an ivy league school. She and I debated constantly (she always won), and I swear that girl was tough on me, and I was often embarrassed and humiliated, but over and over and over I learned some lessons thank God. She could have gotten mad (and she did,) and just refused to be friends with me. And it isn't the responsibility of people of color to take the time to educate us liberal (or not) white people on what racism actually is or how we might be guilty of it in many ways, even when (and sometimes, especially when,) we have BBF'S who are black, or dated (or slept with) someone black, or voted for O. It's our job to do the research, to listen, and to learn. But it's a bit easier I think when we have a forum like this where we can read about other people's opinions and share our own honestly. Otherwise, how will we ever change and figure this * out?

 @travelrighter I saw you on your moped a couple weeks ago on either Vanderbilt or a cross street there abouts. It made me smile! I'm very sorry that some one damaged something you cherished and brought smiles to others. Let me know if you need help blinging it back up!

Thank you! I've been putting my baby back together again slowly, and it is looking better. Like I said, I get to meet really cool people every time I add a few new jewels. I feel like a sort of hoarder now...because it's like I'm obsessed and once I started putting on a little bling on the bike, I couldn't stop!. It's a bit much now, lol.I love when I'm riding by and someone walking toward me looks kinda miserable or sad or stressed, and they see my bike and suddenly have a huge smile. It does look a little silly with giant, sparkly tacky dollar store butterflies, lol, but it's so fun. 

mike dunlap

crime did decline under mayors rudy and mike. but under this mayor

The crime rate is down 6.5% so far this year, but I find racist narratives are usually not big on facts, so carry on...

southeast

Crime may be down, but gun violence is up.  I am not sure why this would be the case...  Two recent articles:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-seek-sweatsuit-clad-man-shot-bystander-brooklyn-article-1.2242439 - June 1, 2015

http://gothamist.com/2015/06/02/shootings_homicide_nypd.php - Jun 2, 2015

whynot_31

Yes, gunplay is on the rise:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/02/nyregion/gunplay-rises-in-new-york-reviving-issue-for-de-blasio.html

-quote:
But in a signal of its concern, the Police Department next week will begin deploying 330 extra officers — the “All Out” program — to crime-plagued areas, a month earlier than it did last year when shootings spiked as the weather warmed. It is also increasing overtime on weekend nights, and extending the hours of its Operation Impact officers, who patrol troubled streets on foot.

In May, the Intelligence Division began distributing dossiers on the most persistent violent offenders, part of a strategy to get officers in the 15 most violent precincts to focus on the people seen to be driving much of the crime. It comes amid an intensifying focus on gangs and street crews involved in tit-for-tat gunfire.

“We have to see what summer brings,” said William T. Cunningham, a former adviser to mayors and governors, Republicans and Democrats. “In the meanwhile, the police have to do everything, given the environment they are in with monitors and watchdogs and the new procedures, to find tactics that will stem this and sort of stymie it in the early stages.”

-end quote.

While the NYPD does a pretty good job of tracking gun play, I suspect they don't keep as detailed statistics on vandalism of bejeweled mopeds.

newguy88

I wonder if weakening gun laws in other parts of the country are having a bigger effect on gun violence then internal NYC policy changes. For example I know it's very easy to buy guns in the south and I know they can be resold up here for a decent profit.

@travelriter No problem. 

I get what you're saying about having a debate. However, for a debate to occur both sides need to have some intrinsic value or truth or logic to them. I don't see the other side of stop and frisk as having any such value to it. If a person's thought process is this "I find crime scary. I blame minorities for all crimes. I believe minorities are lesser people to me hence they deserve to have less rights. In order to fight crime police should randomly stop minorities based only on their skin color and age in order to search them for weapons and drugs. This will lower crime and make me feel safer." This an extremely racist train of thought. Once a person is this far gone I'm not sure you can change them. If Brooklynian really is a welcoming site to all residents of the borough then racist comments have no place. Especially when those making them are unlikely to change their ways.

On a side I find it confusing that comments blaming minorities are kosher but sarcasm is not. Seems kinda out of whack no?

whynot_31

I do not see anything inherently wrong with collecting and presenting statistics on the racial make up of crime victims and perpetrators.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/enforcement_report_year_end_2014.pdf

It is ok to admit that crime does not affect all racial groups evenly, nor is it perpetrated by all groups evenly.

The problem lies in looking at such statistics and then declaring (inferring?) causation between race and crime.

As long as we live in a society where factors such as educational attainment, wealth, family status, employment are skewed by race ...we will have a society in which race is correlated to crime.

We also live in a society in which ice cream sales are closely correlated to crime. As this basic texbook explains, you have to look at the context in which such correlations occur: http://outsmartstatistics.weebly.com/examples.html

Remember, all of the causation therories of crime seem to be valid depending upon the circumstances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminology

newguy88

@whynot31 I'm not saying collecting statistics is wrong at all. I'm saying as you point out "The problem lies in looking at such statistics and then declaring (inferring?) causation" and using that to justify race based policing oppression. Which is exactly want the pro stop and frisk people are doing. 

"

As long as we live in a society where factors such as educational attainment, wealth, family status, employment are skewed by race ...we will have a society in which race is correlated to crime." While traditionally true this is changing. We are approaching a time when the majority of people will no longer tolerate such racist thinking and will no longer believe this. 

The question we need to ask ourselves right here and right now is what is Brooklynian? Is it a community forum or is it a hold out for racists? I believe it is the former but if it is then we need to make sure overtly racist comments have no place here. If it is the later then my time here is rapidly coming to a close. 

crownheightster

I strongly believe that Brooklynian is a community forum. 

newguy88

I strongly believe that Brooklynian is a community forum. 

As do I. It is time for us to act like it though! It is time for the mods to enforce rule #1 "Be nice. If you can't be nice, go to a different website" about stop and frisk. People are going to disagree I get that but when we have overt racist statements things need to change. I've seen it happen on other forums if you don't nip these things in the bud the racism will only get worse. 

whynot_31

While I agree with the court's finding that the prior application of Stop and Frisk was adminstered by the NYPD in a manner that violated the civil rights of blacks and hispanics in NYC, I know and respect many people who feel the prior program benefitted the "worst off" of those groups far more than it harmed them.

I would hate for them not to be able to express their views here or elsewhere. I view their opinions as valid.

newguy88

Funny how those people are mostly white. Racism is a scourge and needs to be wiped out including on Brooklynian. 

whynot_31

I view racism as being merely one manifestation of humanity's tendency to generalize the characteristics and behaviors of specific individuals, to populations which they have things in common.

It isn't going to be wiped out. We aren't going to agree on when it is inappropriate. It is epistemology.

mr. met

Crime may be down, but gun violence is up.  I am not sure why this would be the case...  Two recent articles:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-seek-sweatsuit-clad-man-shot-bystander-brooklyn-article-1.2242439 - June 1, 2015

http://gothamist.com/2015/06/02/shootings_homicide_nypd.php - Jun 2, 2015

so what?  i assume there was a time during Bloomberg's tenure when gun crimes rose over a similar span of time.

travelriter

Of course, there are some people who will never change their minds or opinions. I have just found that for me, after being conditioned and taught certain views growing up, not from my own parents but in society in general, I appreciate the fact that I have been able to learn and change. It was extremely uncomfortable and embarrassing to have someone point out to me why my comments/ thoughts were offensive, but now I know. 

For example, one time my friend and I were in a play and she wore a long, straight wig. I went on and on about how much prettier she was with it. I cringe now when I remember how I insisted that I, too, should straighten and bleach and fry my hair to look better, and wasn't it the same thing, not really listening to her explain. If I was her I would have been so pissed, but she calmly and patiently explained why it was racist to think that way. If we hadn't had that hard conversation, I wouldn't have known why it is extremely hurtful (and racist) for me,  or anyone to say that a black woman with natural hair isn't beautiful.  

I know this forum should be a safe place where people will not be attacked or encounter racism, but I guess it's wishful thinking that this could be a place where people might learn why and how some opinions can be so damaging and wrong. 

goldemi1

@travelriter very good timing reading your post because this morning was my first time seeing that moped on classon, and it made me happy. 

I never feel that Classon is an inherently dangerous street.  There seem to be some side streets that feel a bit more sketchy.  I'm hoping that the opening of the court officers school on Classon means a lot of them walking the neighborhood, and making it even safer.  At some point, some kid is going to hold up one of these armed officers (I assume they wont be in uniforms?) and it wont end well. 

whynot_31

I suspect the instructors at the Court Academy will be armed, but I do not believe the students will be armed until after they have completed the program.

While I feel bad for travelwriter's moped, I don't view Classon as being in need of much law enforcement.

blue_apple

as the author of those comments, i can assure you they were not intended as racist. 

people have to start growing up and drop the constant knee-jerk classifying every reference to race as "racist". it's beyond ridiculous and has reached the point of lunacy. 

(see jerry seinfelds recent comments about how college kids are taking PC to a new lelvel of idiocy by respoding to everything with accusations of racist, bigot, etc. i heartily agree with him.) 

let's discuss issues relating to crime, community, gentrification AND race like adults.