SPLIT from Muggings: Public High Schools

mypasswordwontwork

Snarky South sloper wrote: [quote=brooklynpotter][quote=Anonymous]why would you waste money on a private high school when NYC has some of the best public high school's in the country. Many have much better reputations then the privates. This seems to be one of those cases where people think if it costs more money it must better.

sorry to contradict, but according to a study done by manhattan institute from policy research, here are the actual stats.

* Only 70% of all students in public high schools graduate, and only 32% of all students leave high school qualified to attend four-year colleges.
* Only 51% of all black students and 52% of all Hispanic students graduate, and only 20% of all black students and 16% of all Hispanic students leave high school college-ready.
* The graduation rate for white students was 72%; for Asian students,

79%; and for American Indian students, 54%. The college readiness rate for white students was 37%; for Asian students, 38%; for American Indian students, 14%.
* Graduation rates in the Northeast (73%) and Midwest (77%) were higher than the overall national figure, while graduation rates in the South (65%) and West (69%) were lower than the national figure. The Northeast and the Midwest had the same college readiness rate as the nation overall (32%) while the South had a higher rate (38%) and the West had a lower rate (25%).
* The state with the highest graduation rate in the nation was North Dakota (89%); the state with the lowest graduation rate in the nation was Florida (56%).
* Due to their lower college readiness rates, black and Hispanic students are seriously underrepresented in the pool of minimally qualified college applicants. Only 9% of all college-ready graduates are black and another 9% are Hispanic, compared to a total population of 18-year-olds that is 14% black and 17% Hispanic.
* We estimate that there were about 1,299,000 college-ready 18-year-olds in 2000, and the actual number of persons entering college for the first time in that year was about 1,341,000. This indicates that there is not a large population of college-ready graduates who are prevented from actually attending college.
* The portion of all college freshmen that is black (11%) or Hispanic (7%) is very similar to their shares of the college-ready population (9% for both). This suggests that the main reason these groups are underrepresented in college admissions is that these students are not acquiring college-ready skills in the K-12 system, rather than inadequate financial aid or affirmative action policies.



I don't really see how these quotes pertain to specific NYC High schools? We all know that public schools are in crisis but that doesn't mean that a good public school is not as good as many private schools? Maybe a lousy private school is still better then a lousy public school.

I mean frankly what did your private school education get you? Do you really think you are better educated then these kids leaving Hunter? Nothing personal but you seem to be doing about the same as those of us who went to public schools and somehow wound up in top tier colleges.

Wow. From the stereotypes that abound, I'd have thought that the rate of Asian public school kids who are "college-ready" would be 99.99%, not a the paltry 38% that it is!


But then I read this: "Only 9% of all college-ready graduates are black and another 9% are Hispanic, compared to a total population of 18-year-olds that is 14% black and 17% Hispanic." That is actually not that bad. Surely that means that about 65% of black kids ARE college ready. No? I'm no mathetician but surely if Black kids make up 14% of the graduate population and 9% of the college ready population are black, that means that well over half of them are college-ready. Ditto the Hispanics.

And if the black college population is 11% and the overall black population in America is only around 14%, again, what is wrong with that statistic???

I don't get it.

anonymous

All I know is that when I went to Bishop Ford (late 80's-early '90's), we were "locked in" by school administrators more than once to avoid beatings by John Jay "students" waiting outside for us.
And, Inthink it's neccessary to differentiate between "private" and "parochial" high schools. Parochial schools, and I can only speak about the Catholic ones, are far less expensive than private schools-probably about $5K a year at this point. The main thing I (and my parents) noticed about Ford was the involvement of parents in their childrens' education. Teenagers, when left to their own devices, will slack off & make poor decisions. It's too easy for parents to blame schools/teachers for a student's poor performance, but discipline & a proper mind-set for school begins at home. I learned early on to respect my school, teachers, and myself.
Ford was, in my time an ethinically, financially, and (athough a Catholic school) religiously divirse institution. For the most part, I didn't go to school w/the children of Doctors, Lawyers, etc...(I'm sure there were some, though), but the children of bus drivers, cops, city workers, cooks, construction workers, etc... It wasn't a wealthy group, but a group that cared. Sure, there were "bad" kids, and I don't know if anyone made the Ivy Leagues (ugh), but it was a good education, and I'm happy w/it.

eggcream

Getting into public high schools is like winning the lottery. My son had 6 choices 4 years ago and being an honor student did not get into any of his choices. We thought maybe because he went to a Catholic elementary school had something to do with it but some of his classmates did so that probably wasn't the case. Whatever the case we had to scramble to get a school for him. The BOE suggested John Jay of course and my husband told the woman a police car can usually be seen there daily and no thanks. We looked to Catholic Schools again and found one we liked who happened to have an available space in their honors programs. I say available space because Cathloic School picks come out way earlier than public school picks ( january versus Feb/Mar.) We didn't hear good things about Bishop Ford ( my son actually rec'd a full scholarship), sort of like John Jay, which was too bad since like John Jay it would have been much closer.

My son didn't want the pressure going to Stuv, Bklyn Tech but took the tests anyway. He was literally points away from getting into Tech. I called and asked if there were any make-up tests or something else he could do. The woman said yeah if were immigrants, or if we didn't speak English and a few other choices ( 6 in all ). In other words, some seats are reserved
for immigrants and illegals only.

John Jay ( as it will always be called) is a waste and should be destroyed and a specialized school be put in it's place. It's nice the BOE has money to throw away as it seems John Jay is always under renovation. It sucked that my son had to take a train and a bus to get to school for 4 years when he could have gone to one in his own backyard.

leeho

Eggcream. You are totally wrong. It is not John Jay anymore and I suggest you do a bit more research before you say the school should be destroyed. There are several small schools in there now and they are improving every year.

dw438

LeeHo wrote: Eggcream. You are totally wrong. It is not John Jay anymore and I suggest you do a bit more research before you say the school should be destroyed. There are several small schools in there now and they are improving every year.

See previous posts about miscreants still being housed at John Jay.
I live nearby. It isn't as bad as it used to be, there's less graffiti tagging in the area, but there's still lots of REAL cops around (as opposed to wannabe school security) during school hours.

anonymous

I think I have a fair opinion on the topic due to the fact that I attended both a public and private school. John Jay (Gasp!) and Berkeley Carroll.
I'm not a native and we moved here when my parents were transferred for business. Call it bad timing or bad luck, it was the start of the school year, we didn't know any better so they agreed to my designated school which was John Jay. I lasted 2 weeks . It's not so much the kids being troublemakers. There's just a lack of overall structure and a nonchalance amongst both staff and students. Yes, being motivated did not help me at all in that environment. I myself am a minority but for some odd reason, being european seems to cancel that racial grouping. BCarroll was amazing and it worked for me. Then again, John Jay wasn't going to help me get into law school. BC did.

anonymous

Subject: Re: SPLIT from Muggings: Public High Schools

homeowner wrote: Douglass, (as well as anyone else that wants to chime in) do whites in Manhattan (or any other borough other than SI) send their kids to public schools past elementary school?

I am white, grew up in Manhattan, and went to public school - including middle school.

anonymous

I am not a parent so my opinion on this matter has nothing to do with personal experience or research.

I would not consider spending the equivalent of one year's tuition at the college I attended (or more!) on kindergarten for my child. I know people who do, though. $25K for elementary school seems crazy to me. But I grew up differently: I was taught at public school and am still paying off my college loan. I did not grow up in the city, but even if I did, my parents did not have the means to pay for private schooling.

Besides the money, it is the elitism, the division between rich and poor, the idea that my child will be spending time with children who vacation in Europe, have parents who are celebrities or live in million dollar brownstones. I understand the pros of private school, but I would rather my child be given an education that also includes travel and life experiences that I would not be able to afford if I chose private school.

Somehow, I think there has to be a solution... don't you think that all of these parents who are so invested in their children's education have the power to change the public school system in our neighborhood? Don't you think that if more parents, the kind who research schools and are involved in every aspect of their children's education, opted for public school rather than private, that those parents would expect more from the teachers and the curriculum and the schools would then have to deliver? I know I am dreaming, that change like that would take too much time and parents would not want their children to be guinea pigs to see if such action could change a school system, but I just wish there was some way to make it better. I want my future children to be grounded, safe, given the same opportunities as the rich, and I know that there are plenty of people out there like me who don't see private school as an option but find it unfair that a good education for our children has become something that is seemingly beyond our reach.

drea

I had no idea Bishop Ford was such a great school, nor that they crack down on discpline problems so well. I live down the block from Bishop Ford, and when I first moved here, I remember asking myself what I'd gotten myself into...the kids would walk down the street from the train with boomboxes BLASTING at 7 something in the morning. The station would always have things like "east new york nigga" written all over it in sharpie marker, etc etc.

That sort of thing has gotten better in the last 2 years I've been here, but at first...

anonymous

i guess it really does depend on each family's outlook, financial situation and ideals. If it comes down to what was previously John Jay and spending $25,000 a year for a good education and my son's well being and future as a responsible adult, I'd say that's money well spent. I'd rather they hang out with kids who vacation in Europe, speak well, behave properly than become a statistic who ends up in prison.

And I agree with eggcream. The best thing the BOE can do is to get rid of all the schools in the JJ building and set up a new specialized school which attarct motivated, intelligent and non troublemaking kids.

rose

Anonymous wrote: If it comes down to what was previously John Jay and spending $25,000 a year for a good education and my son's well being and future as a responsible adult, I'd say that's money well spent. I'd rather they hang out with kids who vacation in Europe, speak well, behave properly than become a statistic who ends up in prison.

But the thing is, those are not the only choices. I think people convince themselves that those two extremes are the only options, so they can justify spending $25K a year on tuition or moving to the suburbs, but there really are lots of good public schools out there.

escap

I think "lots" is an exaggeration, but there are some. Also, you can get a good education even at a mediocre school if you take honors classes and work hard. For the really hardcore parents, there's always the option of sending your kid to public school and bolstering that with private tutoring on the side, which is the norm in many of the "higher performing" countries.

Also, things may have changed since I was in high school, but I went to a private school and it was hardly the elitist enclave that is described above. I don't know anyone who "vacationed in Europe" or had celebrity parents, etc. There was a wide mix that ranged from working class to upper-middle class kids, black to white, all of whom intermingled pretty comfortably. Just like not every public school is John Jay, not every private school is Horace Mann.

anonymous

Subject: private vs. public schools

I worked at a Brooklyn private school for more than fifteen years; my kids alternated between public and private school (both went to 321, which was a fine place) and my husband and I attended Catholic schools for twelve years. Catholic or private schools don't kick-out the troubled kids instantly, unless it is a real violation of school rules, but they do have the time and staff to work with kids who have problems. Public schools are mandated to work with a specific curriculum, so teachers are unable to give endless time to a child who is having problems. Even kids who have Resource Room help don't get the same amount of attention that kids in private schools can receive.

Also, private schools can mandate that a child have tutoring or therapy as a condition for remaining in the school. Public school administrators don't have this option.

anonymous

I heard they're opening a new specialized high school called Brooklyn Latin in Williamsburgh- I hope it's up and running by the time I have high-school aged kids.

homeowner

Anonymous wrote: I heard they're opening a new specialized high school called Brooklyn Latin in Williamsburgh- I hope it's up and running by the time I have high-school aged kids.

http://www.insideschools.org/fs/school_profile.php?id=1530

rose

It is up and running. My daughter listed it as one of her high school choices.