another angry rant about out-of-control children

idlewild

Anonymous wrote: OH MY GOD! A child - scratch that - TWO CHILDREN were riding scooters in a store!! If ever we needed evidence of the complete and utter destruction of civilization - there we have it.

Bupkis - you deserve a medal for pointing out this great tragedy of an event. I am so happy you survived and THANK YOU for telling us about your fascinating experience. I am glad you are ok. Was it hard to pick out your olives knowing that these hoodlums were nearby? Were you able to give the baguettes a firm enough squeeze with the knowledge that razor wielding children were lurking behind the organic milk case?

I wish you would tell us your story in much, much greater detail.

This is the perfect example of an adult who applauds and encourages their offspring to act like schmucks in public. My guess is that if one of these children ran into "Guest" that guest would be trying to resurrect Melvin Beli and sue the parents, the child and the store for liability and emotional scarring.

anonymous

Bupkis - sorry for the confusion.

Idlewild - your ability to draw conclusions is quite flawed. I've actually noticed that a lot in your posts. You should read the post and think about what the author is saying before you jump to a conclusion. What I was doing was mocking the original poster. I found his story of children riding scooters in a store less than compelling. I don’t applaud misbehaving children. On the contrary – I think that children should be well behaved. It annoys me too when a kid bumps into me, slows me down on the sidewalk, cries in a restaurant, etc, etc. What I don’t get is why this gets some people so mad.
I am much more annoyed by adults who spend their time bitching about the wrongs perpetuated against them by children. I mean - they are children for Christ sake. What kind of internal anger do people carry around with them that an under supervised child brings out such bitter vitriol. Get over it. Collect your anger and move on.

laura

Anonymous wrote: It annoys me too when a kid bumps into me, slows me down on the sidewalk, cries in a restaurant, etc, etc. What I don’t get is why this gets some people so mad.

I haven't seen anyone here get mad about a child bumping into them, slowing them down on a sidewalk, or crying in a restaurant.

friendlypitbull

bupkis wrote: I'm sorry, riding scooters in a small grocery store isn't rude because I'm getting older. It's rude because you SHOULDN'T RIDE SCOOTERS IN A GROCERY STORE.

Sure but you getting so animated about it (using CAPS and all) and all the other melodrama about such trivial inconveniences as well as the prevelant theme reflected here that "years ago" this didnt happen/parenting was better - IS because you (and others here) are getting old.

and let me add again, both generally and specifically to this "scooter incident" - Video (or at least a still photo) or it didnt happen

sprite

Video (or at least a still photo) or it didnt happen

I'm not sure if you mean this seriously. Are you suggesting people are lying, or just exaggerating?

For the record, I personally have never had a really negative incident with children in Park Slope. I've also never had a cabbie refuse to take me to Brooklyn; that doesn't mean I don't believe people who tell me it's happened to them.

I don't believe for one second that in the good old days, kids were angels. I've heard enough stories about the trouble my dad got into to know better than that. But consequences *were* more serious back then - certainly more serious than any punishment I ever got.

I'm not suggesting parents should return to that kind of discipline. Far from it! I don't know what the answer is. I think Rose, KM, and bp hit the nail on the head with their comments about the way people work longer hours now, but I don't see how most people can avoid that without radically downgrading their lifestyles.

gradoniv

I'm sorry, riding scooters in a small grocery store isn't rude because I'm getting older. It's rude because you SHOULDN'T RIDE SCOOTERS IN A GROCERY STORE.

It seems to me that what bupkis commenting on general rude behavior. I don't see a "things were better when I was younger" excuse here. Do you think kids or adults should ride their razors through a small place like Union Market?

I'm willing to give the original poster the benifit of the doubt, as I would give anyone else who posts here. Video/photo evidence or not.

brooklynpotter

Rose wrote: Having children is not a class privilege. It's a rare family today that can afford the 1950s model where dad is the breadwinner and mom stays home baking cookies. Even assuming this is really the ideal.

rose, i didn't mean it to be harsh or even to mean that parents/mothers shouldn't work. i wasn't referring to people who couldn't afford, or didn't want, to stop working per se. really, in my head was the image of a stack of nannies pushing a stack of bugaboos down the sidewalk. ergo, if you can afford to buy a bugaboo, you can afford to cut back your hours.

caseopele

Here's my story (not that anyone should care). I don't want kids, I never have. There are a few reasons why.

1. My genes should not be passed on to another human being, too many physical and mental problems in both parents families.

2. I also am not a kid person, I don't love children. There are a few that I like and enjoy being around and only one that I love (my 8 year old cousin, the only child in my family I get to see).

3. I don't have any "maternal instinct". Most babies look exactly the same to me, I don't have any desire to interact with them, no melty feeling when I look at them. I prefer animals over children actually, some people think that's bizarre, to me it's just the way it is.

4. I have no desire to bring another child into a world where there are so many unwanted children already here. If at some point I change my mind about kids (highly unlikely), I would want to adopt.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate children. I just don't know what to do with most of them. Customers bring their kids into the wine store and some of them are pretty damn cool and I talk to them. I've even knitted baby hats for a bunch of my customer's kids. But most of the time I don't know what to say to them and I don't really have much of a desire to talk to most of them.

Most of my interactions with kids at work consist of me telling them to stop doing things that their parents should be telling them not to do. Riding scooters in a store filled with breakable glass bottles, pulling stuff out of the window display, holding the door open for no reason when it's 20 degrees outside. Chasing each other around the wine bins, crawling behind wine bins that are very close to the liquor shelves, playing with the bottles, trying to grab everything off the counter (including scissors and box cutters). This is a wine store, it isn't child proof. All the employees are trying to work and children running under the feet of stock guys carrying heavy cases isn't a good idea.

Then there are the parents who park their strollers directly in the aisle or in front of my register while they browse. I'm not a babysitter, I'm not being paid to watch your kid while you shop. And maybe other people would like to be able to actually come up to the counter to make their purchases. Not have to stand at the opposite end passing their bottles over a big stroller.

I know I'll get flamed for all this but it's how I feel. To say this again, I do NOT hate children. I just don't know how to say what I'm thinking without it sounding awful. I have no desire to be around children I don't know, I'm not mean or anything to them and I certainly would never want a child to be hurt in any way. (Anyone who abuses children is disgusting.) Mostly, I'm uninterested unless I know the child.

Well, that's it. I thought I'd give another perspective but I know it's not a popular one.

P.S. My mom would tell you I was an amazingly well-behaved child but a horrible teenager and I'd have to agree (with the horrible teenager part).

alafairnadia

so, yesterday, on the Q train, this .. 10, 12 year old kid (not sure about his age - I don't have kids, don't teach kids, and have a vague knowledge of their ages. yes, they're as foreign to me as snakes. am trying to learn, though, as my friends have kidbits) sat down next to me.

context: Q train three seat portion. I'm sitting on the end by the door. a man is sitting on the other end. kid sits between us. first move: he splays his legs as if he's getting his di** .. well, you know. splayed. needless to say, my leg is being gouged and the guy at the other end is scrunching up. I'm chunky - I take up my seat. the guy at the other end? skinny. barely took up 2/3 of his seat. kid is occupying the rest. and kid? not obese.
then I feel an elbow in my ribs. his .. guardian is speaking to him, trying to get him to hold her SCARF. he's balking - too 'macho' to hold a scarf. not comprehending, of course, that machismo means a hell of a lot more than being a complete asshole. in fact, a complete asshole is not a macho. but whatever - who wants to argue that with a kid? so, instead, my elbow dives into his bicep. kid's short. then I press my thigh out. I do pilates. the whole thing degenerates, to the point where I've got the kid pinned into HIS OWN SEAT. omg, what a freakin' event!
no, this kid means nothing in the grand scheme of kids - he's one of millions and is probably ... hopefully ... one of the most obnoxious in this country. but I was not willing to take his shit. don't care if he's underage. had he retaliated, or escalated, I was fully prepared to confront his mother. I mean, if I can confront the couple making out on the center pole of a rush hour train, I'll confront some little shit's mom.

ilovecarbs

Since we're still at this, just thought I'd share my experience yesterday morning. I myself have no kids and have no desire to have any because I love travelling and I love my job, but to each her own

I get on the 2/3 at grand army going to manhattan. There's a mom standing with 4 kids in tow..2 kids are sliding around the holding pole, one's screaming at his mom, the youngest is in a stroller. We get to Atlantic and the mom tried to get off with the kids, she pulls the pole kids (2), yells at the other kid to get the stroller. (the oldest kid here could not have been over 5/6). The kid starts yelling saying the stroller's stuck, mom yanks the stroller..hits the kid and starts screaming. kid starts cursing at her., pole kids are fighting, baby in stroller is screeching and crying. Obviously, the miss their stop and get off at nevins. At this point, the entire train car is speechless. and relieved becausa the noise was unbelievable.

I walked home that evening and ran into my neighbor with her jumbo stroller who waited for a bunch of us to pass (berkeley is narrow like all the side streets) then moved on. Cute kids, well behaved..no screeching.

Makes me kinda glad that I live here. I haven't met any crazy parent-kid combos. I don't want to either.

I'm leaving for work now..I hope I don't run into that crazy family. I hope you guys don't either.

brooklynpotter

i don't know, guys, you don't have video... ;-)

shishkab

as a matter of fact, i don't think ANY of YOU exist without video. can you capture yourselves in action on cams, cuz otherwise i won't believe even the possibility of your existence! forget the pollywogs... what about YOU? :shock:

brooklynpotter

well, some of you have actually seen me in person. then again, the people who i say have seen me might also not be real.

friendlypitbull

sprite wrote:

Video (or at least a still photo) or it didnt happen

I'm not sure if you mean this seriously. Are you suggesting people are lying, or just exaggerating?

For the record, I personally have never had a really negative incident with children in Park Slope. I've also never had a cabbie refuse to take me to Brooklyn; that doesn't mean I don't believe people who tell me it's happened to them.

I do mean it seriously to this extent.....if you read this board/thread you'd think that kid were running amuck in Park Slope with parents seemingly oblivious/rude/encouraging this behavior. Yet some of us havent seen much less experienced this phenomenom that is described as practically epidemic.

So am I saying that all these stories are lies - no - I am sure some are true, some are exaggerated to various levels and some are either made up or are told from a 1st person position even though the poster is just reposting an anecdote they heard from someone else.

The point is, I (and am sure others) have a healthy dose of skepticism toward message board anecdotes especially as evidence of some sort of societal (or neighborhood) trend/condition. So -for example- if you are so outraged by razor riders in the Union Market (is it possible that they were just carrying the clunky things or standing on them in one place????) - then take out that cell phone and snap a picture. It would add tons of credibility to your story, and probably do more to embarass these allegedly horrible parents then your snarky comments.

So am I dead serious that I don't believe these stories at all - no - I am sure there is some various level of truthiness in 99% of them, but until I personally see moe of such behavior (for which I will happily snap a shot) as much more prevelant, or see more (real) proof of this alleged 'condition' I am confident to continue to believe that many people just like to complain. And rather then believing Park Slope is ground zero for spoiled obnoxious children with indulgent/lazy and rude parents the facts are really that the older people get the more they like to complain about kids and how when they were young things were better.

laura

If I worked in a wine store, I think caseopele and I would be, like, the exact same person.

sigma2009

laura wrote: If I worked in a wine store, I think caseopele and I would be, like, the exact same person.

I agree completely. I gave her stars. Her thoughts are more common than she thinks.

<---too sick and congested to actively participate in this thread. My head is already spinning enough :?

laura

Flexichick wrote: [quote=laura]If I worked in a wine store, I think caseopele and I would be, like, the exact same person.

I agree completely. I gave her stars. Her thoughts are more common than she thinks.
I gave her a star too!

friendlypitbull, do you work a 9-5 job?

billymowboy

I personally don't walk around with a camera (and I don't have one on my phone) ready to snap pictures of out-of-control children.

If you want to see my idea of hell, get on the subway around 3pm when school lets out.

Screaming, shoving, cursing (I curse a lot, but not screaming obscenities on a subway car full of people), throwing stuff, running between cars, etc.

I'm not saying I was an angel (far from it), but I was taught how to behave in public

I had dinner in nice restaurants once I was able to behave appropriately. If I threw a fit, I was marched out.

laura

Flexichick wrote: If you want to see my idea of hell, get on the subway around 3pm when school lets out.

Screaming, shoving, cursing (I curse a lot, but not screaming obscenities on a subway car full of people), throwing stuff, running between cars, etc.

I try to avoid both the subway and the streets from 3 - 3:30 for precisely this reason.

friendlypitbull

laura wrote:

friendlypitbull, do you work a 9-5 job?

Actually 9:30 to about 7?

why?

anonymous

Forget the camera--it is like that parable of the blind men and the elephant. Each person is perceiving this situation from their own view. All the pictures in the world aren't going to make a common ground.

But I do think I understand the friction better now after reading the last few posts. First. I agree, there are definitely rude and bratty kids. I personally don't see kicking and hitting and that kind of out of control, but I do think parents could do a better job reigning in their kids behavior.

I don't think there are child haters on this board but there are a bunch of people who have no interest in some day having kids. Totally cool. There are people who are uncomfortable around kids. Totally fine. I think there is a group of people with no interest whatsoever in children. There are people who find kids in general kind of annoying. (All kids CAN be annoying at times).

So I ask--why are these people living in a family neighborhood? I don't mean this rudely--I just see the friction is that families really have taken over the slope and if the preschool crunch is any indication--there are more families pouring in from Manhattan. Kids are in the slope to stay.

anonymous

laura wrote: [quote=Flexichick]If you want to see my idea of hell, get on the subway around 3pm when school lets out.

Screaming, shoving, cursing (I curse a lot, but not screaming obscenities on a subway car full of people), throwing stuff, running between cars, etc.

I try to avoid both the subway and the streets from 3 - 3:30 for precisely this reason.
Jeez - you sound like a couple of grumpy old ladies. Much worse hell in getting on the subway from 7:30-8:00am and 5:30-6:00. Angry, tired, rushed adults squeezed together in a over-heated tin can is much worse than a bunch of kids being kids and talking loud.

laura

friendlypitbull wrote: [quote=laura]
friendlypitbull, do you work a 9-5 job?

Actually 9:30 to about 7?

why?

laura wrote: I'm wondering if some of us have different experiences based on our lifestyle ... for instance, I work freelance and therefore come into contact with children more than a person with a 9-5 job.

brooklynpotter wrote: i think laura has a really good point, about when these incidents happen: i, too, am self employed so i see a lot of "daytime" behavior and perhaps there really is a difference.

laura

Commuter wrote: [quote=laura][quote=Flexichick]If you want to see my idea of hell, get on the subway around 3pm when school lets out.

Screaming, shoving, cursing (I curse a lot, but not screaming obscenities on a subway car full of people), throwing stuff, running between cars, etc.

I try to avoid both the subway and the streets from 3 - 3:30 for precisely this reason.
Jeez - you sound like a couple of grumpy old ladies. Much worse hell in getting on the subway from 7:30-8:00am and 5:30-6:00. Angry, tired, rushed adults squeezed together in a over-heated tin can is much worse than a bunch of kids being kids and talking loud.
I am totally a grumpy old lady. With cats, even. I agree that the rush hour subway is worse, which is why I avoid that too by working at home!

laura

laura wrote: I am totally a grumpy old lady. With cats, even.

Besides, isn't it a New Yorker's right to kvetch? :?

rose

I also try to avoid the subway right after school gets out. But now we're talking about teenagers, not toddlers, and for the most part, the out-of-control teenagers on the subway are not Park Slope kids. The kids going nuts in the 7th Avenue station at 3:00 are leaving Park Slope.

This thread is now at the point where people are giving examples of every instance of any child from infancy to adolescence behaving badly anywhere in the city to illustrate how horrible Park Slope parents are, and how dreadful "kids these days" are.

Because yeah, in my day, we were all quiet and well-behaved at all times. When we were toddlers, we never threw tantrums, in fact we were never allowed out of the house at all. When we were teenagers, we never annoyed the adults around us by being noisy and obnoxious. We were model citizens from infancy. But today's kids, wow, they are really awful.

friendlypitbull

laura wrote: [quote=friendlypitbull][quote=laura]
friendlypitbull, do you work a 9-5 job?

Actually 9:30 to about 7?

why?

laura wrote: I'm wondering if some of us have different experiences based on our lifestyle ... for instance, I work freelance and therefore come into contact with children more than a person with a 9-5 job.

brooklynpotter wrote: i think laura has a really good point, about when these incidents happen: i, too, am self employed so i see a lot of "daytime" behavior and perhaps there really is a difference.

Well as someone in a windowless office under florescent lights all day, working for 'the man' at essentially thankless and painfully boring tasks (although thankfully with reasonably good compensation) - I must say that I would think those of you working 'freelance'/from home/own boss really ought to appreciate your freedom significanltly more -and I would expect significantly more tolerance and much less grumpiness considering all of the terrible annoyances you left behind by dumping a "regular" job.

laura

friendlypitbull wrote: I must say that I would think those of you working 'freelance'/from home/own boss really ought to appreciate your freedom significanltly more -and I would expect significantly more tolerance and much less grumpiness considering all of the terrible annoyances you left behind by dumping a "regular" job.

Believe me, I appreciate my freedom every minute. I don't have a big problem with the teens getting out of school - I just avoid them, that's all.

sprite

Flexichick wrote: If you want to see my idea of hell, get on the subway around 3pm when school lets out.

Screaming, shoving, cursing (I curse a lot, but not screaming obscenities on a subway car full of people), throwing stuff, running between cars, etc.

I'm not saying I was an angel (far from it), but I was taught how to behave in public

I was too, but I acted very differently when my parents weren't around. I didn't swear in front of them, but I swore when I was at the mall with my friends. I didn't think about who might overhear, or whether I was being too loud with my friends or getting in anyone's way. Some years ago I saw three teenage girls on the subway, singing "Tea for Two," doing a little dance routine, and laughing at themselves. They were making a lot of noise, which was annoying. But I'm sure I was just the same. Teenagers are oblivious. (I'm afraid I still am, somewhat. Maybe that's why I find it easier to relate to teens than to small children. )

Much worse hell in getting on the subway from 7:30-8:00am and 5:30-6:00. Angry, tired, rushed adults squeezed together in a over-heated tin can is much worse than a bunch of kids being kids and talking loud.

I still prefer that, because tired adults are usually quiet. A big group of kids on a train - like a class on a field trip - is very loud, even when I'm wearing earplugs. Of course, adults traveling in the evening and on weekends can be noisy too, which is annoying. What can I say? I like a quiet train.

ithinkican

Today's out of control kids = tomorrow's teens.

yes, I'm grumpy. Especially today.

I have cats AND I'm a New Yorker.

KM - The only non-family neighborhoods I know of are senior homes.

I'm not advocating child-free communities, just responsible parenting.