Insane woman downstairs...can I get out of my lease??? Help!

japes317

This is my first time posting. I wish I could just focus on how happy I am about the election results (Yes We Did!) but right now I am going through an extremely troubling time.

My fiance and I moved into our apartment in July. In the 3.5 months that have passed since then, we've come to find out that we have a downstairs neighbor who is out of her mind.

A rough summary of what we've gone through:

-The weekend we moved in, we were subject to several visits by said neighbor, complaining about the noise of moving in. We explained that we were just moving, getting our apartment in order, etc, but she proclaimed that she "must have quiet by 10pm every night". But she complains well before 10pm, at times like 5, 6, 7 at night.

-She has tried to push/force her way into our doorway to find out what is "going on" in our apartment to cause the noise she is hearing. (There is nothing going on except us being alive, i.e. walking from one room to another, or pulling out a chair to sit down.)

-My fiance has had to call the police on her because of her harassment, as she would not leave our doorway and was trying to shove her way in.

-I asked her to please stop coming to my door to bitch at me, and please call me instead. Big mistake, because in the past three days I've heard from her three times to complain.

-Last night, she left me a 5minute plus voicemail about her new plan to "make my life difficult" because I apparently continue to "disturb" her and she doesn't like that I call the landlords and tell them about it. Yes, I saved the message.

We live in an old building, and there is definitely not ample insulation. But I hear noise from the other tenants, and I deal with it. That's just the way it is. But apparently, she doesn't see it that way. I feel anxious all the time, and I have to tiptoe around my apartment constantly. If I accidentally drop something on the floor, my heart skips as I am worried that I will be subject to more harassment by her.

The landlords are 75+ years old, and don't really care about solving the situation. Every time I speak to them about it they just tell me that they'll talk to her. They can't stand her, but she's been there for 6 years and they can't/won't take the steps to get rid of her. Oh and by the way, she has two dogs that bark constantly anytime anyone is in the hallway (which is often) but apparently THAT noise is perfectly acceptable to her.

Is there any possible way that I could convince the landlords to let me get out of the lease early? I can't take this anymore!

hitokiri

Freeze a bottle of water, tie a rope to it.

But how does this help us you might ask. It doesnt SOLVE the problem, but it will put a smile on your face.

wait for a nice COLD night. Throw the bottle OUT of your window while holding the string. Make sure you arc it real good so when the string tightens, it swings into and through her window. Pull the bottle back up quick and tip toe to bed. No evidence around! lol

Ok, seriously... wrong move giving her your #. Although you can use it as an example of harassment to show the police. Then have the police make your landlords to do something... maybe even get a restraining order if it gets nuts.

If she tries to force her way into your apt again, give her a good palm to the nose

You are in a rough situation, but you should play it smart and brush up on every renting law in NYC you can get your hands on and use it to your advantage.

If you want to get even more childish, put some guerrilla glue into the key holes of her door lol

underhill_mt

Harrassment is harrassment. I'd think that there would be some provision for breaking a lease based on unfit living situations - including harrassment. If the landlord doesn't want to fix the problem then it would seem fair to let you out of your lease. If I were you I'd talk to them about it, tell them you want to move because the neighbor is harrassing you and your fiance incessantly and that you'll give ample notice when you've found another apartment. Sorry I don't have actual lease facts to back that up, but you said your LLs are older folks who seem to own the bldg, so I think it's worth having a talk with them about it.

For the record, this totally blows and I'm so sorry you have to deal with her! I had a crazy downstairs lady once. She used to take pictures of me coming in and out of the apartment... and when I confronted her about it one day on my way to the grocery she ran into her apartment as if she were afraid of me. When I returned there were cops waiting for me. They laughed, helped me carry my groceries upstairs, then told me that she's nuts and to ignore her best I could. Ugh.

bohuma

I have a few suggestions. If you have the time, go down to the housing court and talk to one of the tenant advocates. You have a warrant of habitability that crazylady maybe breaching. If she is this may enable you to take action against your landlords, including asking the Housing Court to void your lease. You need to make sure that you've got 80% of your floor covered with carpet/rugs to avoid a counterclaim by your landlords. You should tell your landlords that you intend to seek legal advice, this may prompt them to do something. Age is no excuse for not fulfilling their responsibilities as landlords. I am sure you are not the first tenants crazylady has harassed.

Calling the police when she tries to trespass is a good idea, but unless she assaults you or breaks into your apartment, they're only likely to continue to warn her.

You should hang up on her whenever she calls you. Check the peephole before answering the door, and if it's her tell her to go away.

You could try using the most profane language imaginable when talking to her/yelling at her, but this is unlikely to cause her to desist, and she may call the cops on you. You never know though, greeting her as "c-nt face" and telling her to "f--k off" every time she comes to the door may work.

rockergirl77

Wow. What a crazy bitch. You're nicer than me - I would put the fear of God into that woman so fast she wouldn't know what happened. You should start knocking on her door and yelling at her every time one of her dogs barks. Turn the tables and maybe she'll shut up.

** Disclaimer: I am better at escalating bad situations than I am solving them.

mpmav1

Can't you get a protection order against her? Ya, she's downstairs... but this seems to be harassment and likely grounds for a protection order.

hitokiri

RockerGirl77 wrote: Wow. What a crazy bitch. You're nicer than me - I would put the fear of God into that woman so fast she wouldn't know what happened. You should start knocking on her door and yelling at her every time one of her dogs barks. Turn the tables and maybe she'll shut up.

** Disclaimer: I am better at escalating bad situations than I am solving them.

*points to my first post* lol

Hey Bohuma,

If they leased the apt and it had no carpeting and the apt was advertised as beautiful wood floors, do they need to carpet? I see those ads all of the time on craigslist and when I was apt hunting 6 months ago.

Shouldnt it be up to the landlord to take care of the carpeting? I mean...it's an apartment. It doesnt make sense for the tenant to invest in a carpet for a place they dont own

longtimesloper

Is she very old? maybe she is losing her mind and needs some help. Be a good neighbor and call elderly services for her

And those dogs barking all day? They are obviously being abused or not being fed, call the humane society.

bohuma

RockerGirl77 wrote:
If they leased the apt and it had no carpeting and the apt was advertised as beautiful wood floors, do they need to carpet? I see those ads all of the time on craigslist and when I was apt hunting 6 months ago.

Shouldnt it be up to the landlord to take care of the carpeting? I mean...it's an apartment. It doesnt make sense for the tenant to invest in a carpet for a place they dont own

According the FAQs at the NYC Rent Guidelines Board, there is no regulation requiring a certain percentage, but leases typically contain such a provision. My leases have always said 80%. The OP needs to check their lease. Most landlords only enforce the provision if there are complaints about foot stomping noise. In this case crazylady is just being a bitch by the sounds of it.

Another suggestion to the OP, get into heavy metal and really give her something to complain about. Alternatively, have a fancy dress party in your apartment the theme of which is gang banger. Maybe if twenty people who look like gang bangers walk upstairs she'll think twice about harassing you.

whynot_31

you'll need to show that she has a repetitive pattern of harrassment before you are able to get an order of protection from Criminal Court, so I'd scratch that idea off the list.

If she committs a serious crime against you, you can get an order of protection, but until then, not pursing one will save you a day waiting to hear you don't have enough grounds.

japes317

Thanks so much for all of your responses. I will look into the Housing Court, and try to talk to someone there.

I am thinking about writing a formal letter to my landlord outlining all of the times I've had to deal with her harassing me. I do have proof in the form of a police report as well as my phone records and the insane voicemail she left me last night. I am hoping this might convince them to let me out of the lease.

Does anyone know of a lawyer that I could talk to and get some advice about this?

mpmav1

Once a week there is a tenants rights show on TV (on the local broadcast channel). They have lawyers there that take calls. I've always thought I would use that if I needed any free tenant right lawyer advice.

Anyone know more details about time/channel?

mpmav1

japes317 wrote: Thanks so much for all of your responses. I will look into the Housing Court, and try to talk to someone there.

I am thinking about writing a formal letter to my landlord outlining all of the times I've had to deal with her harassing me. I do have proof in the form of a police report as well as my phone records and the insane voicemail she left me last night. I am hoping this might convince them to let me out of the lease.

Does anyone know of a lawyer that I could talk to and get some advice about this?

As an obvious note... any good lawyer will tell you to rack up as much documentation as possible. At the least, right down specific dates/times/events. Better... document letters to landlords, tape record the voicemail to ensure it doesn't get deleted, etc.

Sorry to hear about this...

rockergirl77

Next time she comes over answer the door with your video on your camera running.

bohuma

The De Castro Law firm give themselves high marks for their tenant advocacy, see http://manhattanfirm.com/. Fortunately, I've never been involved in a landlord/tenant dispute even though I've been both.

The TV show is on channel 34 in Manhattan, which of course doesn't help in Brooklyn.

A lot of the tenant advocates that hang around Housing Court are lawyers looking for court appointments or doing pro bono work for regulated tenants.

scarlett

We had a similar problem with a little girl who lived below us. She would come up every day to hang out or play or whatever. Finally we just stopped answering the door. I am surprised you would keep opening the foor after all that. I really hope you get it worked out!

new2hood

or, tell you landlord your living situation is unhabitable, don't pay your rent for a month (assuming you gave a month security deposit), then move.

hitokiri

japes317 wrote: Thanks so much for all of your responses. I will look into the Housing Court, and try to talk to someone there.

I am thinking about writing a formal letter to my landlord outlining all of the times I've had to deal with her harassing me. I do have proof in the form of a police report as well as my phone records and the insane voicemail she left me last night. I am hoping this might convince them to let me out of the lease.

Does anyone know of a lawyer that I could talk to and get some advice about this?

can you get the voicemail on youtube?
I would love to hear it. Also, the comments on youtube would be great lol

willbklyn

I really recommend you begin totally ignoring her. Don't answer the phone, don't answer the door, don't communicate with her. She does sound like she's mentally ill so you can't expect her to be rational or "come around." Then, just live your life as a polite neighbor. If that doesn't work, move out. Most leases say that you have the right to a peaceful living situation - it's called "quiet enjoyment" so you should be able to break the lease without a problem. In fact, if you tell your landlord you are going to break the lease (I'd do it in writing for more impact) maybe it will cause them to take some action.

I really don't recommend harassing her. If you totally ignore her hopefully she will revert to complaining to her dogs about you.

comfortably smug

RockerGirl77 wrote: Next time she comes over answer the door with your video on your camera running.

Yep.

Also, have your fiance contact
Kramer & Dunleavy, LLP
350 Broadway
New York, NY 10013

Phone: 212-226-6662

They specialize in representing women, but they'll raise hell on this crazy bitch.


Post her phone number (the crazy old broad's)

comfortably smug

Also, I must applaud hitokiri's contributions to this thread, hilarious.


Seriously though get in touch with Kramer & Dunleavy

modsquad

This not a Tenant/Landlord or "housing Court" issue. You have to sue your LL in Housing Court, not another tenant. He is the one who by not doing anything is giving tacit approval to her actions but she is not doing anything that violates her lease anyway. If you actually find a lawyer who will take this case you will pluck down at least 2k for a retainer and wait for months to go to trial. In the mean time your LL will get a lawyer and try to evict you for making so much noise you have driven the poor neighbor downstairs crazy. Your only hope is to pursue a criminal complaint or noise complaints regarding the dogs but the dogs are a very long shot and that would still require you to go after the landlords.
You should threaten to sue the LLs and settle on voiding the lease instead but you guys sound like you don't have the balls for that.

OR have you asked them if they would mind breaking the lease? Nicely?

hitokiri

Comfortably Smug wrote: Also, I must applaud hitokiri's contributions to this thread, hilarious.


Seriously though get in touch with Kramer & Dunleavy

ty, i aim to please

I really would like to see that voicemail on youtube though lol

filmlover44

Start a war with her. On the internet tubes - post her voicemails and videos of her crazy behavior along with her phone number. Call the cops whenever her dogs bark.

Or, write a calm, rational letter, sent certified to your landlord outlining how this woman is making your life miserable with facts and details and the police reports you should continue to collect every time she calls you with threatening phone calls and wont leave your doorway. This should be enough to take to court if you have to. Ask them to choose to resolve the issue or to let you out of your lease.

charlesbklyn

Subject: Crazy

This sounds like a situation between tenants, and not the landlord. The landlord leases space, which for all intensive purposes, becomes your home. A landlord is not liable for another tenants crazy behavior or disputes between tenants. Yeh, you can try to get out of your lease, or bring civil actions, but in a situation like this, it is more money and pain than it is worth.

Interesting that there are frequent pleas for help on Brooklynian with violent neighbors breaking into apartments, but never any arrests or police action. I suspect there is another side to this story, no offense.

Of interest ...
You are allowed to protect yourself with reasonable force in NY, and so I would suggest that next time this woman attempts to break into your apartment, you physically restrain her and call the police. Sometimes you need to push back, especially when you have no other option.

The only other thing is sometimes, with crazy people, acting crazy yourself tends to confuse and pacify.

squindar

google "tenant creating nuisance"

mjl83lukas

Subject: crazy neighbor

I also had a crazy neighbor once when i lived in the East Village.
She would get pissed over walking or if something accidently fell on the floor. She even blamed us for a Kotex that was found in front of her massive pile of old NY Times papers in the hallway (which was against the rules as a fire hazard!) and dared to write us a note saying that it was dropped from our apartment and that if it happened again she would try to have us evicted. At the time we lived on the 4th floor of a 4 fl walk up. What a fuckin' idiot!

I kept a record of all the things that would happen between us and the nutcase. Also, i researched a ton of stuff from the NYC govt. website...it says that you don't have to have 80% of your floors carpeted. In order to have to carpet your floors like that, it must be stated that the tenant must do so in the lease that you sign.

As for "quiet enjoyment" of apartments and noise: please see the following website for more information that could help you:
http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/faq/quality.html#carpet">
http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/faq/quality.html#carpet

Also taken from the site, "...while there are no specific regulations concerning when noise can be made, leases sometimes contain clauses concerning this."

So check it out and write something up with references and show it to her the next time she bothers you...if she still gives ya shit..see if your landlord wouldn't mind you finding someone to take over your lease. That way, he won't have to do the leg work, but may more likely give you that option if ya do look around.

Hope this helps!

bohuma

Subject: Re: Crazy

charlesbklyn wrote: This sounds like a situation between tenants, and not the landlord. The landlord leases space, which for all intensive purposes, becomes your home. A landlord is not liable for another tenants crazy behavior or disputes between tenants. Yeh, you can try to get out of your lease, or bring civil actions, but in a situation like this, it is more money and pain than it is worth.

Interesting that there are frequent pleas for help on Brooklynian with violent neighbors breaking into apartments, but never any arrests or police action. I suspect there is another side to this story, no offense.

Of interest ...
You are allowed to protect yourself with reasonable force in NY, and so I would suggest that next time this woman attempts to break into your apartment, you physically restrain her and call the police. Sometimes you need to push back, especially when you have no other option.

The only other thing is sometimes, with crazy people, acting crazy yourself tends to confuse and pacify.

Sorry, but if one tenant is compromising another's warrant of habitability it is the landlord's problem. Further, tenants in a rental building only have a contractual relationship with the landlord, and have to involve the landlord in their disputes. One of the joys of being a landlord.

hitokiri

unfortunately, it's easier for the landlord to not do anything and have the tenant move out on their own instead of going through the long process of eviction.

It's a double edged sword. You either rent from an individual owner who probably wont do anything, or rent from a management company who only see's you as a number and WILL do something... but you dont get that warm and friendly service.

anastasia beaverhausen

Wait...does this mean your apartment will be vacant? Can I has it?? I'll put up with the old bitch. I'll let Oscar stomp around and piss on her doorstep.

astarte

Speak from the landlord's side, it's very difficult to evict a tenant in the NYC court system b/c judges will bend over backwards to keep tenants in the apartments, even when the tenant is affecting the rights of other tenants. If you really want her out, ALL the tenants disturbed by her need to document every occurrence and help the landlord go to court and appear in court as needed to testify against this person. Get a restraining order, all this would be evidence!

Don't not pay your rent b/c that can backfire on you. You can ask to be let out of the lease, maybe you can look for someone who would be willing to take over the lease.

Also for the record, a security deposit is NOT held to cover rent nonpayment. A security deposit is used to repair significant damage you have done to the apartment during your tenancy unless you and your landlord agree (I'd advise in writing) that you may use the security to cover your rent. If you move and your apartment is in good condition, you'll get your whole deposit back.