so.. it's 46 degrees in my studio... commercial laws?

brooklynpotter

Subject: so.. it's 46 degrees in my studio... commercial laws?

i know commercial buildings have laws re:heat.. different than residential. but i can't for the life of me find them online.

anyone know where to look?

radio349

nyc.gov? 311? google?

either way, that's bullshit.

brooklynpotter

nyc.gov, can't find it. 311, you can only put in a complaint that goes to the DEP? or some other branch, not the regular people.

i knwo it's supposed to be 68 during working hours, m-f, and it never is.

and yes, this is bullshit. but it has to be done.

anastasia beaverhausen

If you don't find out what the law is before then, come Monday, I'll find it out. I work for a commercial real estate developer - one of the leasing guys will know.

brooklynpotter

thanks beaverhausen.

during my calls to 311 they've been unable to give me specific laws.

essentially (at least during the week) they break the law. and nobody complains because we're a giant group of industrial warehouses filled with factory workers. my assumption (and no, assuming isn't good) is that if most of the factory workers were legal, they'd be calling about the heat. ergo, building gets away with little heat because nobody will complain. except me. and then they will murder me.

good to meet you last night!

anastasia beaverhausen

What does your lease say? Because of the types of buildings we have, we usually have something in the lease about supplemental HVAC if needed, etc. Since yours is a warehouse type place, I'm not sure what your lease included about heating/air.

It was great to finally meet you, too! PS - she looks exactly like her picture. Except she didn't flick me off.

brooklynpotter

my lease is a sublease with the guy who runs our studio spaces. it says nothing about heat.

i knew it would be cold, i didn't realize the landlords would be such scumbags. my studio guy has had little luck working with them, and i have no problem calling the city. i love the space, and don't want to move or leave. i would just like not to freeze. currently, i don't know if i have toes.

voodoonyc

Aw that sucks. Is there anything in your lease? Unfortunately commercial tenants have far far less protection under NY law than residential tenants. That's not to say you shouldn't fight like hell to get heat.

brooklynpotter

voodoo, see above. though i may have to get tons of plastic to cover up my beautiful windows because they are clearly part of the problem. boo. hiss.

brooklynpotter

and i'm also going to be pulling out my "good till ten below" canadian boots

voodoonyc

Oops - sorry missed that. Yeah, the key to a commercial space is a well-crafted lease. But complaining every hour to your LL couldn't hurt!

voodoonyc

You should also approach the guy who you sublease from. There may be something in HIS lease about heat, water, etc. that he could use to force the building's landlord to do something about it...

brooklynpotter

voodoo, done that. not sure he's working hard on it. but he did say he'd bring me plastic to cover windows.

my beef actually isn't so much with him, because he's running this arts foundation and his english is bad so calling the city a whole lot isn't easy for him. and i have no problem calling the city and the LL, i just need to know what the laws actually are, because i acan assure you they're being broken

voodoonyc

Really everything is governed by his lease. Presumably there is something in there about the hours they need to provide heat. Understand that you have no beef with him but your best bet is to ask to see a copy of his lease if he wouldn't mind. Subleases generally don't go into much detail and everything I know about the governing law is there just isn't much for commercial tenants.

brooklynpotter

i know. and i need to speak with him during the week. i just want to know where the city stands on this as well

voodoonyc

Look at Section 235-b (Warranty of Habitability) of this link (the NYS Real Property Law) - it basically says that a landlord must provide tenants with premises that are fit for human habitation and the occupants will not be subject to dangerous or hazardous conditions, etc. This is true for both commercial and residential tenants. It also says that those conditions must be satisfied regardless of whether or not those terms are in your lease. So yes, the main landlord is in violation of the lease without even looking at it. It's the law damnit!

http://www.tenant.net/Other_Laws/RPL/rpl07.html

brooklynpotter

habitation? these are specifically NOT live/work.

voodoonyc

Yeah, I thought of that too. Maybe I should go to law school. Which goes back to my earlier point - since the RPL is silent on the rights of commercial tenants, then the _only_ rights they have are in their lease. Ok, I'll shut up now.

voodoonyc

Google is your friend. There is actually a LOT of case law where commercial tenants tried to invoke warranty of habitability in court - and lost. Sorry - I'm bored. NOW I will shut up...

brooklynpotter

lolol... i have obviously failed at google.

voodoonyc

This is actually really fascinating to me which is why I am taking the time to research - that and I'm bored. Why should commercial tenants have so few rights? I understand the importance of giving rights to residential tenants, but don't commercial tenants deserve at least some of those rights as well?

brooklynpotter

apparently not, and you know how i feel about lawyers and rights right about now. harumph.

zensmama

next time I have something to research, I am coming to Brooklynian :-)

voodoonyc

flux

Get a really warm comforter or move out.

madsy_swami

flux wrote: Get a really warm comforter or move out.

this is her work studio, not her house

vidro3

I think this could help.

Department of Buildings code Title 27 subchapter 4. Go to page 4 for heating requirements.



http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/bldgs_code/bc27s12.pdf

brooklynpotter

sje, thanks. i have 2 space heaters.

i don't believe the heat on our floor can be turned on by us, or it would have been. it's building-wide (actually, complex wide. 8 buildings, i think)

regardless, i'm calling the city again on monday

brooklynpotter

i know one of the buildings has heat over the weekends.

what i've gathered is that each building--they are a block long, half a block wide)-- has many heating systems. our particular address, 6 floors, minimum 20 businesses (including us), no heat on weekends or after 5 on weekdays.

and at least for us it's not done floor by floor. it's the whole building. either the furnace is on or off.

brooklynpotter

sje wrote: they are perhaps just jerks who don't care.

bingo.

this is not about my landlord who runs the arts foundation, it's about the people who own this warehouse complex. but. there are some laws and i believe they are being broken. i just need to find out where to find those laws.

anonymous

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!