Withholding Last Month's Rent

arieshine

Subject: Withholding Last Month's Rent

Hi all, I'm feeling quite lost and could really use your advice.

I'm planning to move out of my building when my lease ends Aug 1. The management company has never responded to phone calls requesting maintenance. This includes the time their own construction workers left water running in the apt above ours overnight, leading the ceiling to fill up with huge pockets of dirty water, which eventually exploded over us at night and ruined my bedding. I called at least six times, left multiple messages and even sent them a letter detailing all the attempts made at contacting them. The only way I was able to somewhat remedy the water situation was to take a day off of work, corner the construction workers, show them the situation, and sit in the apt while they leaked the pockets and did some half-assed plastering. I had to pay for new bedding.

It's a rent stabilized apt. Last year, they raised the rent the maximum amount, and when my live-in boyfriend called to negotiate, the rude receptionist responded "No rent negotiations!"

Clearly, this management company is not nice. I'm worried that they will try to keep our deposit due to the water damage and/or anything else possible, considering how they've acted in the last 2 years I've lived here. My sweet neighbor across the hall is moving out today, and told me they had also never answered her calls or complaints. She advised that I don't pay the last month's rent and let them keep the deposit for it. It's what she did, and she believed that otherwise, I would lose the deposit whether warranted or not.

Has anyone else had this experience? Would you follow her advice, and are there any legal implications? Thanks everyone...

scarlett

My friend just moved into a new place but almost didn't get it because her credit report showed that she owed last month's rent from an apartment she lived in 8 YEARS AGO. She had a similar situation and luckily had it all documented so they let her have the new place. So, if you do do this, make sure you have letters and blah to save your behind in the future.

opossumqueen

We did this at our last place (rent stabilized dump). Our LL was slightly more responsive than it sounds like yours is, but no saint. We let them know when that rent was due that we weren't paying and they were fine with this (however, the last time the LL had been in, the place was obviously much nicer looking then when we moved in due to some minor things we did).

If they are really lazy, there's a good chance they won't pursue it.

MOD

I've always tried to keep on good terms with my landlord, but it sounds like you have a company running your building, not a single person. They could either be lazy and not report you or they could be dicks.

It's all a gamble, that's pretty much it.

arieshine

Thanks for your input. Mamacita, you are right, the LL's a huge management company and not a single person. Are there any laws that protect the co. from taking my entire deposit unwarranted?

opossumqueen

Technically all or a portion of a security deposit may be kept to cover damage beyond normal wear and tear for repairs, and only for that. It may not be kept to cover unpaid rent, etc. If they do keep it and you did not cause such damage, it's up to you to take the LL to small claims court to get your $$ back.

Sometimes, apartment stuff just sucks. Like someone else said, keeping your credit clear is important in this situation and a big management company is probably well-versed in filing complaints or whatever it takes to screw up your credit compared to a single owner LL.

Hope your new place is better!

aenigma

So sorry to hear about your apartment situation. It sounds awful. I wish I could give you advice, but these things seem to me to be frustratingly ambiguous. I hope the next place is much better!

I have always been curious about if and how rent payments are incorporated into one's credit report. Does anyone know? Does the management company have to go out of its way to file something? My curiosity has recently been honed by my recent no-heat-in-the-dead-of-winter saga and consequent non-payment of my rent.

modsquad

They can use the security for unpaid rent.

A landlord may use the security deposit: (a) as reimbursement for the reasonable cost of repairs beyond normal wear and tear, if the tenant damages the apartment; or (b) as reimbursement for any unpaid rent.

If all your looking to get is the last month "free" then you're fine. It definitely is not worth the management company's time and money to start any claims against you. Take a few pictures of the apartment for proof that it was in good shape.

http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/attygenguide.html#6

modsquad

If you want to muddy the waters further start a claim in small claims for the damages you suffered. It would cost them money to respond and who knows you might get your security back. Try to find out who the actual LL is and serve him papers too. It is likely he doesn't know what bullshit the mange. co. is pulling.

mantic

modsquad wrote: If you want to muddy the waters further start a claim in small claims for the damages you suffered. It would cost them money to respond and who knows you might get your security back. Try to find out who the actual LL is and serve him papers too. It is likely he doesn't know what bullshit the mange. co. is pulling.

I second this action. Document everything you can as far back as possible. File a small claims suit for the bedding etc asap. If they are as non responsible in contacting you, you may end up with a default judgement.

When you move, take many date stamped pictures of the empty place. Every nook and cranny. Ceilings, walls, closets. Note thedamage done by the contractors clearly and visibly. Demand a walk throught in writing certified of course and refuse to turn over keys until you get a signed statement from the LL that all is in order and there is no damage to the apt.

bohuma

My experience, albeit limited, with landlords (and other non-responsive types) is that the only react to certified letters. This is because every lawsuit needs a paper trail and the usual first piece of paper is that certified letter. Not every certified letter results in a lawsuit, but every lawsuit is preceded by a certified letter. Management companies know this and have been trained by their lawyers not to ignore certified letter. BTW the same goes for city agencies and school principals - remember that last one if your child is getting harassed or bullied at school, or the school is not performing the way you think it should.

garfunky

one should note that A) comes before
and
While LL CAN(not MUST) use the security as unpaid rent, the following phrase or something similiar to it, is quite common in blumberg leases.

Security is not to be used as last months rent

ie - the landlord is NOT required under the terms of the lease to use security in lieu of last month.
thus, it is a violation of the lease term and may end up on your credit check if they choose to report it.

As for rent stabilized apts - odds are youre paying way under market to begin with and the yearly increase is decided by the city, not the management company.

modsquad wrote: They can use the security for unpaid rent.

A landlord may use the security deposit: (a) as reimbursement for the reasonable cost of repairs beyond normal wear and tear, if the tenant damages the apartment; or (b) as reimbursement for any unpaid rent.

If all your looking to get is the last month "free" then you're fine. It definitely is not worth the management company's time and money to start any claims against you. Take a few pictures of the apartment for proof that it was in good shape.

http://www.housingnyc.com/html/resources/attygenguide.html#6

garfunky

minor correction- the bit about security not being last months rent is typically found in most riders, not the blumberg lease itself.

typically a client initials next to each point of a rider and then signs the bottom, thus doubly acknowlegding/accepting the terms therein.

chuleta

I will reiterate what most everyone else said in saying:

- Yes, use your security as your last month's rent.

- It's not the technically correct way to do this. But it's really common to do in this city. Especially if you have reason to think the landlord isn't honorable and won't return your deposit to you.

- Don't be scared by the notion of "my lease says I can't use my security as last month." No big deal. Yes, you're violating a contract you signed. Well so did they by not providing you with a habitable space in which your belongings would not be damaged by something like your ceiling falling in. Even though you paid them rent every month. I'll bet your building has violations if it's in disrepair like that.

They have no case to go after you in court, since the security pays for rent you owe. Even if they are sleazy enough to try to falsely claim damages (through their own neglect of the building) in the apartment are your doing, the burden falls on them to PROVE that you caused damages in the apartment that they are entitled to money for, which, seriously, I highly doubt they would attempt. It's a big waste of time for them. Much simpler to just move on and find another tenant to rent to.

- As others said, do CYA with taking time-dated pictures of the damages and such. It's just to help you sleep better. Get the receipt for your bed, too. No judge in housing court would take the landlord seriously if you can document some of that stuff. It's obvious what the situation is.

- Be prepared for a little nastiness on their end when you tell them you'll be moving out and are using the security as last month. Don't let that disturb your peace of mind. They can't do anything serious to you. They can't force more money out of you, and they can't evict you before you leave. They might try to pressure you to move out before the month is up, pay them no mind. You can always sweetly ask if they want you to call the New York Housing Authority to inspect the building if they try to harrass you into leaving early.

REMEMBER: For better or for worse, you have a lot of rights as a NYC tenant. There just isn't that much they could do. Path of least resistance for them is to allow you to just move out at the end of the month and call it quits.

chuleta

Also:

That really sucks! I was in a similar situation a couple months ago (my bathroom ceiling fell in, landlord was reluctant to fix it, I'm lucky I wasn't hurt, etc). I did the same thing you did. He was too lazy to do anything more than yell at me. And I'm a good tenant who always paid rent on time and was pleasant and respectful to my neighbors.

Sorry you have to go through this. It's not right for them to take advantage of people.

arieshine

Thank you so much to everyone. This has been an enormous help as well as a great relief to feel that I'm not alone out there! (Aenigma, chuleta)

I will absolutely document everything in the apartment. I did, last March, send them a polite, yet formal letter which dated the call attempts I had made, as well as detailed all of the water damage done to the apartment (which I have photos of). I have copies of that letter, too... I hope that will help in a court case, should it get to that point.

I've spoken to a third tenant in my building and his calls go unanswered as well. He's even getting charged "late fees" though he says he's paid his rent in full on time each month. I honestly do not feel as though they have held up their portion of the agreement, considering they've completely ignored every contact attempt made by us and others. Clearly I'm not the only resident getting taken advantage of here.

FWIW, my boyfriend and I split an $1800/month rent for a 1 bedroom, in South-South 'Slope. Next year's rent would be $1870! With the recession and all, I doubt it's under market price! :P

arieshine

One more note - the renewal lease they sent me states that "all moves will be coordinated by the management company in order to ensure the consideration of other tenants in your building." What are they trying to say by "coordinate" -? I'd like to think I can move out when the lease ends using whatever means I please.

whynot_31

if you have your deposit in hand, you can pretty much do as you please...

but, yup, take some photos before your leave. Don't leave a mess, and (if you can stomach it) tip the super to leave on a good note.

carnivore

whynot_31 wrote: if you have your deposit in hand, you can pretty much do as you please...

but, yup, take some photos before your leave. Don't leave a mess, and (if you can stomach it) tip the super to leave on a good note.

I think if you've been tipping the super well all along, you don't need to give a separate tip when you move out.

arieshine

Duly noted. Though I think I should tip you guys for all the great advice!

littlegal

For what it's worth, I had a landlord several years ago who was an unhelpful jerk throughout my tenancy (for instance, I had to use my 50's era stove to heat my entire second floor because he was in with the fire marshall--seriously). At the time I lived in a two story house with five roommates. When we moved out he tried to keep over $3000 in security deposit (giving us each back $24).
Long story short, we sued him, he made up stories and 'doctored' photos, which the judge laughed at, and we got all of our money back plus a little extra for travel, time off work, etc.
My point is to never give in to someone trying to exert power over you. If you're right then you're right and you should use any (legal) means necessary to ensure that you;re not taken advantage of.
Ohh, sorry for the long rant. I despise people who think they are powerful and have a right to take advantage of the rest of us. Rant officially over!

garfunky

arieshine wrote: I've spoken to a third tenant in my building and his calls go unanswered as well. He's even getting charged "late fees" though he says he's paid his rent in full on time each month.

FWIW, my boyfriend and I split an $1800/month rent for a 1 bedroom, in South-South 'Slope. Next year's rent would be $1870! With the recession and all, I doubt it's under market price! :P

A) Goes to why you should be aware of the pitfalls. which is all was trying to do. not provide direction either way. Legally speaking, your last month rent is late because they cant touch the security for a month anyway. so if theyre charging someone late fees for having paid on time it stand to reason that they will report the late payment just like your credit card would.

Ok at 1800 its at or a tad above market for south slope. However if you move out they get a vacancy increase , and voila the apt is qualified to be decontrolled. i would wager this is the cornerstone of everything negative your experiencing. its not justification obviously, but hopefully gives you some understanding as to why they are acting like idiots.

:arrow: www.tenant.net

pwyll

I second going to www.tenant.net That group knows the ins and outs of this stuff

garfunky

arieshine wrote: One more note - the renewal lease they sent me states that "all moves will be coordinated by the management company in order to ensure the consideration of other tenants in your building." What are they trying to say by "coordinate" -? .

it means tell them when you are moving out so that 6 moving trucks dont show up at midnite and wake up the whole building while 6 tenants fight over who gets to move out first.