why so mean at the co-op?

My tour of the co-op was so off-putting we didn't join. They treated us like lepers. "Don't touch that, you are not a member." I thought the tour leader was going to shit when I brought our daughters with us. If I wanted to join a country club, I'd fucking move to Westchester County. It is a food co-op. This means working together, etc. It does not mean petty fascist rules. I was a board member of a co-op when I was in grad school. We were very successful at member relations because we realized early on that we had to pay people to work at the co-op. Volunteers were problematic because often the type of person who "can always be there" as a volunteer is exactly the damaged personality type that pisses off other members. While I was on the tour, bored stupid by the lust for rule making that place has and pissed because of the second-class citizen status I was afforded as a non-member by some pratz who obviously was getting off on the whole thing, I realized why it makes the rules: the proliferation of damaged personality types. It is a self-fulfilling system.

The co-op is actually a very fair and reasonable place as long as your honest.

I think that quote says it all. How is someone showing up early ever going to be 'dishonest?'

metulj wrote: If I wanted to join a country club, I'd fucking move to Westchester County. It is a food co-op.

It's not a country club by any extent. I've worked with hipsters, rastas, hassids, soccer moms, professors, etc... You name it. I've met and befriended tons of people from tons of social classes and tiers. The tour is bad. But they do give you a pass so you can shop one time on your own as a non-member. And nobody will hound you at that point and you're free to purchase and explore as well.

And yes, if you're not a member you can't shop. But being a member is not an awkward interview in front of a bunch of snobs. You pay your fee, work your shift and you're a member. There is no class, race or any discrimination.

On my squad I have all races and all ages. And even a few people who are definitely semi-famous and could probably have an assitant do their shift. And the funny thing is, those people do their shifts without issue and never try to leave early. Seriously, I won't name names because of privacy issues, but it's quite a reality check whenever I see this happen.

Also my whole perspective on the work shift concept also changed when I watched people in their 60s or with kids in tow happy and willing to work. Nobody sees it as a burden. And the total time commitment is less than 3 hours; I've wasted more time watching the Matrix sequels and definitely got less.

And believe me, when I assign work I'm not forcing people into Gulag conditions. When a person came in and had severe allergy problems and could not work in packaging in the basement I worked with them to find something they can do. That's what I mean by honesty. It's not race to do as much or lift as much or win a shelf-stocking competition but a place that encourages people to contribute what they can to help the place stay afloat.

I think that quote says it all. How is someone showing up early ever going to be 'dishonest?'

Becuase of the reasons outlined above. If you show up early you're being a burden. And this is something I learned not from the co-op, but from also doing hourly wage work back in the day. And it's something that union workers understand as well. Show up on time. Leave when the shift is over. It's not anything unique to the coop.

I think when all is said and done in this era of 'Netflix' and 'Fresh Direct', people are simply getting lazier and see 'working' at the co-op on a shift as a burden. But the flip-side of that is at least the members who stay are cool enough to realize that for a minor time commitment of 3 hours a month you can get a lot of great things for cheap, make lots of new friends and generally exist in a very community geared environment.

PS: I've also found it baffling how some consider the co-op mean, when in the real world I've met more hostility trying to get a sales clerk at Circuit City and such. And more annoying high-pressure sales environments at clothing retailers and such. I think there's a bully aspect in how people attack the co-op for daring to be 'member only'. When people on EBT (food stamps) and others can be members, the 'member only' concept is far from elitist.

That's me above!

Anonymous wrote: I have never fully understood the point of food co-ops. I would love to be sold on them by someone.

park slope food co-op = cost + 20% and super amazing fresh produce that is local & organic --> or atleast this option!

Anonymous wrote: [quote=Anonymous]I have never fully understood the point of food co-ops. I would love to be sold on them by someone.

park slope food co-op = cost + 20% and super amazing fresh produce that is local & organic --> or atleast this option!

What does that equal in actual savings? I look at this stuff like I look at laundry - I am willing to pay more for time saved.

vanilla wrote: i mean i got there 5 minutes early and got YELLED at... i have been a member for years...

Yikes, now that's nuts. I would recommend going to the office and talking to someone about it. If you don't know the squad leader's name, just look at the sign-in sheet and then look for someone with the letters 'SL' next to their name.

Some squad leaders are jerks. But some people are jerks anyway. The good thing about the co-op is everyone is on equal footing. So when things go nutty, figure out a way to deal with it without disrupting the work flow and all should be good. I'd recommend discussing with the office after a shift.

it is just all about who you might or might not run into on a particular day, like the older lady in the wheel chair... for example.

You know in the case of that woman, she'll hook anyone walking down 7th Avenue or Union Street to help her. She's gruff, but lovable. She yelled at me about cremini mushrooms once and it was cracking everyone else up! (I appreciated it after she left)

even though my first message was a whiney complaint, i am just talking about RESPECT. even if 5 minutes is too early to sign in or whatever, just say it... otherwise, maybe some people should not be squad leaders. just because someone is a sqaud leader, does not give them the right to go power crazy and yell and be mean, maybe a little grumpy SOMETIMES... but one cannot come into the position thinking everyone is f'n dumb and be a jerk to people for no reason.

In my 2 1/2 years at the co-op I do know one thing. Jerks and asses get filter out. I had a few on my squad. They gave me crap. Never showed up. And eventually were never heard from again.

It's really an environment where the process of natural selection among nice people versus jerks really works.

***why don't we get squad leaders to monitor the squad leaders that cut in line and shop in line and leave early? the one the yelled at me for being a few minutes early then did all of these things.... hhmmm, interesting.

Report it to the office. Even before I was a squad leader I had people shunting work on me while they goofed off and I spoke up. I know some people are afraid of confrontation, but in a place like the co-op where members are the workers and slacking off is not a good thing, speaking up about stuff like that might seem tough, but you will get support. Believe me, I have when I needed it and it was a great feeling to know that I was not alone.

but seriously now, although probably more than 98% of squad leaders are awesome... what do we do about the rest?

See all I mention above. Also, you know those two clowns who got kicked out for leaving early, signing in for each other and all that? That sent a clear message.

you showed up five minutes early and got yelled at? whoa. that is completely unreasonable, and doesn't even take into account discrepancies in people's watches, or even the sheer physical impossibility to EVER show up for anything in this city at precisely the time you intend to.

i did my time working shift work and managing shift workers, at grocery stores in particular. a five minute window in the early direction is preferred, and no one was ever sent home early if someone showed up early. no one expected to leave early if they showed up early. actually having a little bit of extra coverage at shift switch made the whole operation run more smoothly, especially in certain departments where customers would place and pick up orders. the out going shift would fill the incoming shif in on what to expect and what was in the order pipeline. now lateness was a problem, but we never made anyone stay to cover the hole. its just a fucking grocery store you know, its not like the world is going to stop turning if people can't get their beefsteak tomatoes as quickly as they could have.

since its volunteer work, its not even like they would have had to pay you that extra 5 minutes!

but i guess thats the thing about co-ops, i belonged to one in college and actually felt as though i was treated more humanely, reasonably, and fairly by the big nasty corporate grocery store i worked for so from that point on, like a beaten dog, i've been very wary of food co-ops.

I've always found it cheaper and easier to just go to the china town groceries in Queens. Prices are phenomenal, produce is great. I'm not within walking distance of the co-op, so it doesn't make much of a difference.

I've always been rubbed the wrong way by anyplace with many rules.

BTW, this is BrooklynSwordStyle, looks like the board is doing it's strange you-can't-log-in thing again.

BSS wrote: I've always found it cheaper and easier to just go to the china town groceries in Queens. Prices are phenomenal, produce is great. I'm not within walking distance of the co-op, so it doesn't make much of a difference.

I've always been rubbed the wrong way by anyplace with many rules.

BTW, this is BrooklynSwordStyle, looks like the board is doing it's strange you-can't-log-in thing again.

Why go all the way to Queens - there are some really good ones in Brooklyn, like on 65th Street (right off the N train), 13th Ave., right off the D train and a whole slew of them in Bklyn's Chinatown - granted they may not have a great selection of organic but they are very fresh.

Laura B wrote: Jack, thanks for your articulate (and patient) description of the way the coop works!

I actually kind of get a kick out of laughing w/friends about the minor random weirdness I encounter there. And it’s strange to me that people seem to put so much more energy into hatin on the coop than they do say, Met foods, which is nasty. It's not like complaining about poor service at a private business: if you don't like something at the coop, you can take responsibility and get involved--you, like the thousands of other members, own the place. Mom and dad aren’t around to get you “in trouble.”

You're welcome! The thing I have also noticed since joining is how much more critical I am of retailers in other ilks. Mind you I would always be a vocal customer if things went awry. But nowadays if I walk into--let's say--an American Apparel and deal with a pushy sales-person, I'll ask them to back off more than I did in the past. And if they're pests I'll just leave and not think twice.

I'm not anti-consumer or anti-capitalist in any way. But I'm just amazed at how much abuse the average consumer deals with from retailers on a daily basis. And why the co-op get's grief while major chains--and even jerky small retailers--act like bigger jerks and thrive, I'll never understand.

Subject: Re: co-op

Guest wrote: I was hit on by a creepy middle-aged guy during my first co-op work shift years ago.

Agreed. That's why I no longer ride the subway or go to bars or restaurants. And I disconnected my phone after getting harassing calls. Too many creeps!

Seriously, if that did happen. Report it since that stuff is taken waaay seriously. There is a system setup to warn--and eventually kick out--members who harass others.

In contrast, I've known people in office jobs who--despite human resources policies--had no real recourse against people harassing them on the jobs. Token gestures were made, but abusive jerks still stayed.

Like it's been said before, the co-op get a bad rap when compared to similar things happen in the real world.

For example...

If subway stroker Dan Hoyt milked his nuts in the co-op, I'm sure people would pig-pile on him and the co-op indicting both. Mocking everyone in the co-op for being a member and him for doing what he did. But he does it on the subway and people rationally--and rightfully--blame the Hoyt-meister and don't even think of blaming the MTA in any way.

The whole co-op should not be judged on the actions of a handful of loons that sometimes slip through.

Subject: Re: co-op

Guest wrote: I was hit on by a creepy middle-aged guy during my first co-op work shift years ago. If that's "community," I'll pass. Also, I strongly disagree with their policy that non-related roommates of co-op members must also join, since they theoretically have access to co-op food in their fridges.

I'm not a member, but I had a roommate who was. He carefully explained that if I were to eat any of the food I would have to join. My initial - yet unvoiced - opinion was, "what are you nuts? You mean if I put some of your icky soy milk in my coffee cause I'm to lazy to go to the corner to get the real stuff, I'll have to join?" I wasn't fond of his cooking, though, so it was a bit of a non-issue.

devincf wrote: The co-op is a created community, the subway is a mode of transportation. You base your opinion of a community on its members.

And in the community of the co-op--which is quite female friendly to say the least--if a member of the community steps out of line, it's not simply tolerated. The member gets reported and warned. And if it persists, they are kicked out.

There are thousands of people who join and become members. And there is no prejudice towards anyone being a member. Even if you can't pay the fees in one lump sum, they'll work it out with you so you can join (payment plans and such). So statistically speaking a few bad eggs can join. But the way the place works, if you're a jerk you get booted. There's no prejudice against anyone, but if you're a member and you harass others you will not last and not survive and you'll be kicked out.

And the subway is indeed a mode of transportation. But it's not a private space. It's a public space. And if you can't abide by common deceny in the subway, you will get in trouble as well. Granted the NYC subway does tolerate bad behavior on various levels as we all know, but Dan Hoyt at least got some grief and court time because of his choice of whipping out the smoothie machine on the train.