White Kids from Oklahoma Beaten and Called Crackers
From the Daily News: "The Browns said their ethnically and racially diverse neighbors in Prospect Heights have embraced them, and they thought New York was 'the greatest place on Earth' - until they started battling the school system.""Brown enrolled her sons, Sloan, 12, and J.T., 13, at Ebbets Field Middle School in Crown Heights... Sloan was beaten mercilessly, called 'cracker' and 'white boy,' and chased into traffic by his new classmates, his family said."
"The abuse got so bad that Sloan routinely bolted out of the building to find his brother and run to a nearby subway, dodging verbal and physical attacks, he said."
Comments
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Amazingly sick on many levels.
Including the fact that the school is named after Ebbets Field, where the Brooklyn Dodgers played. And where Jackie Robinson--the first African-American player in the major leagues--played thanks to that "cracker" Walter O'Malley signing him to the team. -
I hate this - hate it! - and I'm BLACK!
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Jack wrote: And where Jackie Robinson--the first African-American player in the major leagues--played thanks to that "cracker" Walter O'Malley signing him to the team.
Not sure what you meant to imply here - also, not sure it's relevant - as it is in the long past - which I assure you - you do not want to delve in to!
I am a mutt - of african, indian and spanish descent - born in the caribbean - simply a mutt.
I am angry simply because there are children involved at all levels. Procreation of hatred or discrimation based on skin color is dispicable today. This behavior is learned or taught - out of defensiveness or simple hatred. In any event, if must be healed.
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boaty wrote: [quote=Jack]And where Jackie Robinson--the first African-American player in the major leagues--played thanks to that "cracker" Walter O'Malley signing him to the team.
Not sure what you meant to imply here - also, not sure it's relevant - as it is in the long past - which I assure you - you do not want to delve in to!
The reason it was brought up is simple. The school is named after a beloved baseball team. And a team in which an attempt at racial integration in the major leagues was made. That's really it.
Also, I'm well aware that racism in major league baseball for years. Let's not forget 'Robert' Clemente. What happened, the team could spring for the 'o' to make him Roberto; his real name? Or the fans hatred when Rod Carew when he married Jewish woman. But the point being made is a family from the midwest comes to Brooklyn, does nothing wrong and are called 'crackers' in a school named after the home field that the Brooklyn Dodgers played in.
Hate is hate. And prejudice is prejudice. And the sick thing is the ability for anyone to be a racist is colorblind itself.
I hope the Department of Education does something about this. -
Jack wrote: But the point being made is a family from the midwest comes to Brooklyn, does nothing wrong and are called 'crackers' in a school named after the home field that the Brooklyn Dodgers played in.
We don't actually know the "does nothing wrong" part, do we? Do you think there's no chance that there might have been some epithets in the other direction coming from the Oklahoma kids? All we have is one side of the story, and the Daily News isn't exactly a paragon of journalism.
I agree, the thing sucks, but let's not embellish the story with flourishes that aren't necessarily based in reality. -
Carnivore wrote: Do you think there's no chance that there might have been some epithets in the other direction coming from the Oklahoma kids?
Anyone is capable of doing anything, but there's nothing that points to these kids being closeted 'crackers' who were only called as such when they started using choice language on their classmates.Carnivore wrote:
Flourishes? What would this family have to gain by this incident. And since the Department of Education sped up the transfer of these kids to get them out of the school, I don't know what else to say.
I agree, the thing sucks, but let's not embellish the story with flourishes that aren't necessarily based in reality.
Unless the Daily News is fabricating all of this. Or the parents are just sick closeted racists who fabricated the whole incident to get some bizarre need for attention filled. If that's the case, I'll take back the statement. -
Jack wrote: [quote=Carnivore]Do you think there's no chance that there might have been some epithets in the other direction coming from the Oklahoma kids?
Anyone is capable of doing anything, but there's nothing that points to these kids being closeted 'crackers' who were only called as such when they started using choice language on their classmates.Carnivore wrote:
Flourishes? What would this family have to gain by this incident. And since the Department of Education sped up the transfer of these kids to get them out of the school, I don't know what else to say.
I agree, the thing sucks, but let's not embellish the story with flourishes that aren't necessarily based in reality.
Unless the Daily News is fabricating all of this. Or the parents are just sick closeted racists who fabricated the whole incident to get some bizarre need for attention filled. If that's the case, I'll take back the statement.
How about this scenario?
1. Kids from Oklahoma come to new school and make some offhand racist coment (maybe not even intentionally offensive).
2. Brooklyn kids retaliate in totally asymmetric fashion.
3. Kids don't tell family that they provoked incident.
4. Family (understandably) makes big deal out of this.
I'm not saying this is a villainous family. I'm just saying we don't know the whole story. And the Daily News certainly isn't above printing a story without all the facts if they think it will help sell papers. That the kids have been tormented and beaten seems to be fairly undisputed fact. That they didn't do anything to provoke it is supposition. The story is bad enough without making up the parts that we don't know. :roll: -
Carnivore wrote:
All that's as may be, but the article's emphasis is where it should be, which is that two different school principals and the local police failed to deal with the problem until the press got involved.
How about this scenario?
1. Kids from Oklahoma come to new school and make some offhand racist coment (maybe not even intentionally offensive).
2. Brooklyn kids retaliate in totally asymmetric fashion.
3. Kids don't tell family that they provoked incident.
4. Family (understandably) makes big deal out of this.
I'm not saying this is a villainous family. I'm just saying we don't know the whole story. And the Daily News certainly isn't above printing a story without all the facts if they think it will help sell papers. That the kids have been tormented and beaten seems to be fairly undisputed fact. That they didn't do anything to provoke it is supposition. The story is bad enough without making up the parts that we don't know. :roll: -
i kind of doubt that these kids would be using harsh words towards the kids beating them up, i mean that entire family seems like its a very careful pc / co-op member / should be park slopers / etc etc all the liberal 'new age' ish stereotypes you can think of.. and probably get really uncomfortable with race and only say things like 'people of color'
plus those kids look like wusses.
regardless,
this is fucked up. goes to show every naive person who thinks they are going to be experiencing diversity how segregated this city/world is in all directions. its hard to imagine any place that is truley intergrated in any way where people don't have ANY racial tension. that place just doesn't exist. i think their parents are a bit naive to ever think these boys WOULDN'T get shit on in some way. -
Subject: racism in area
this story makes me sick.
i've lived in this neighborhood for 3 years (not that long) and have moved once already because of racist remarks and actions made by kids in the crown heights area. being of asian decent, i have never received so many derrogatory comments on my race. although i have empathy for those who have been discriminated and gentrified, i have no patience for many of the kids of crown heights that find me an easy target, not being white or black.
it seems like i have received more racist comments from black kids in the area than anywhere i have ever lived. what's going on>? -
JamesonVandy wrote:
absolutely right. wait till these suburban parents who move to the city to expose their kids to diversity start suing the schools and the principals for their dereliction of duty regarding bullying... then you'll see changes.
All that's as may be, but the article's emphasis is where it should be, which is that two different school principals and the local police failed to deal with the problem until the press got involved. -
Carnivore wrote:
Hey, I have had adults in Brooklyn act asymmetrically toward me when the find out that I am orignally from the South (and white). It's like they expect me to run around in a white sheet and start hoarding axe handles. People move for many reasons. One reason I moved to Brooklyn was so the kids could know all kinds of different people, yada yada yada. That being said, don't put it past the OK kids to pop out a comment. They are kids. The definition of kid in my book is: "Biological entity that doesn't fucking know shite." You learn to keep your mouth shut in all kinds of ways.
2. Brooklyn kids retaliate in totally asymmetric fashion. -
do you really think those kids would be that stupid to say anything like that? hmm its possible, but i dunno it doesn't seem logical. its middle school, and just like violent prisoners and battery hens, middle schoolers will pick apart and violently exploit any perceived difference and weakness, don't you remember your own horrifying middle school experiences? its the same all over, middle school is hell in any neighborhood.
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This is a hate crime and the parents and school should be held responsible as well as the children. Unfortunately this is not going to happen and it will be forgotten. If it were white kids beating up black kids and yelling nigger on the other hand, Al Sharpton would be planning a rally.
The mother shouldn't have sent her kids to that school in the first place. -
Sounds like an average day in the hood for me. :roll:
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Carnivore is like the only person speaking sense in this thread.
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Daily Post = Whack!!!
12 and 13 = when kids think they rule the world.
That said, this is horrible and upsetting and perpetuating racism, hatred, etc.
Like Carnivore said, we don't know the whole story. How many times do you think a black family moving to a mostly white neighborhood/school in Oklahoma get harrassed? What they also didn't write about in this article is that the fat kid with the learning disabilities gets his ass kicked everyday and the girl who kind of smells because she only has so many clothes to wear to school eats lunch in the bathroom. -
I'm having a hard time believing people here are trying to blame the victims! There is a huge amount of reverse racism in Crown Heights, especially the deeper you get into it. I experienced some of this this summer, while looking for apts there. I'm white, and got weird looks and rude comments just riding my bike around. I got asked, "What are you doing here?" Kids can be especially horrible, and I think it starts at home. The school obviously tolerates it and accepts that kind of racist and violent behaviour as normal. That's why they didn't respond. That's the problem. Not the southern kids.
Seriously, if you're the only white kids in a black school, do you think you're going to start making any racist comments? Come on. :? -
KateBklyn said: Like Carnivore said, we don't know the whole story. How many times do you think a black family moving to a mostly white neighborhood/school in Oklahoma get harrassed? What they also didn't write about in this article is that the fat kid with the learning disabilities gets his ass kicked everyday and the girl who kind of smells because she only has so many clothes to wear to school eats lunch in the bathroom.
Good god, would you blame/question the victims if a group of white kids beat up a few black kids? Yes, it's *possible* that they did something to provoke the attack, but do your really think it's likely? Do you think it's appropriate to suggest that it's the case without any evidence to suggest it? And do you think that the fat, learning disabled kid getting his ass kicked excuses this? No one's saying that this is the single worst crime ever, but why do so many on this board feel the need to balame the victim/excuse the victimizers?
JC -
No one is blaming the victim. Just saying look at the source (and this flame bait topic title -- sorry, Andy, but wth?). There's two sides to every story and I highly doubt that these kids were just skipping along when the big bad black kids decided it was "pick on a cracker" day and beat the sunshine and love out of the innocent little southern boys. Maybe before you all are so quick to jump on the school as a highly racist environment and scream reverse racism, you should ask some of the other white kids in the place (because they do exist) what experiences they are having and think of ways to foster some understanding between the kids in that school and apparently the adults in this neighborhood.
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My intention is not to blame the victim at all (which wasn't clear) but the fact that there is an article written about this particular situation just makes me raise an eyebrow and the Daily News is doing it to incite OUTRAGE. I'd like to see an article about every single minority kid that gets beaten up at school everyday, that's all. These kids from Oklahoma are also not the ONLY white kids in the school...
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Anyone who says that young boys do not pick on other boys for no reason is retarded. When I was young I got picked on and beat up just for being the poorest kid in class. And adults would always tell me that same shit; that I must have done something to incite it. The truth is really that a lot of kids have screwed up home lives and go outside everyday looking to take it out on someone. So the first mark they see, be it a white kid, chubby poor kid (e.g., me), they beat the shit out of. Trust me.
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For the record, I'm not blaming the victims, and I didn't say that they were "asking for it" or anything. Someone else asserted that the kids just moved here and "didn't do anything" and got attacked. I was pointing out that we don't know the "didn't do anything" part, especially considering the Daily News as the source. When I was challenged about this, I gave one alternative scenario (of many).
Look, I agree that the bullying thing is terrible. Judging by the tough competition in the "who's the biggest geek" thread last week, a lot of people here have plenty of personal experience to back that up. But the Daily News took something that happens in every school every day of the week and tried to turn it into a major story. That's what they do. They're a sensationalist tabloid, not a newspaper. -
KateBklyn, Candicissima and Carnivore aren't 'blaming the victim'. Yeesh.
Blaming the victim = hi victim, it is ALL YOUR FAULT that bad things happen to you.
What they're saying (and I agree) is that the world is way more complex than a two paragraph story in the Daily News (or however long it was). the whole story isn't there. the individual lives, feelings, and issues of all of the parties involved aren't there. you can't get the whole picture from that. so jumping to conclusions based on the story in the paper could lead to making a false conclusion.
maybe we need to do a DH field trip (again) to Starlite ... hanging out in CH is fun!
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Subject: my problem with the situation
is that they got moved to a different school, instead of the problem being resolved at the school they were at.
AND that the school system sucks in general. -
Steve Austin wrote: Anyone who says that young boys do not pick on other boys for no reason is retarded. When I was young I got picked on and beat up just for being the poorest kid in class. And adults would always tell me that same shit; that I must have done something to incite it. The truth is really that a lot of kids have screwed up home lives and go outside everyday looking to take it out on someone. So the first mark they see, be it a white kid, chubby poor kid (e.g., me), they beat the shit out of. Trust me.
i got it for being small, flat, homely, and nerdy, and it only stopped when i started retailiating.
however, it shouldn't be up to the kids to fight their own battles, the school has a duty to protect and be accountable in these situations. its appalling that such duties are only acted upon when the press reminds administrators to do their job. i'm sure there are plenty of other non-white kids being horrendously bullied in that school, and the principal was probably equally non-responsive to the concerns of their parents. however it will take the glamour of a big press story and accusations of racism to get anything done about it. i wouldn't wish a stint in middle school on my worst enemy! -
Subject: Re: my problem with the situation
heynow wrote: is that they got moved to a different school, instead of the problem being resolved at the school they were at.
That's a Guest I can agree with!
AND that the school system sucks in general. -
t-fal wrote: [quote=Steve Austin]Anyone who says that young boys do not pick on other boys for no reason is retarded. When I was young I got picked on and beat up just for being the poorest kid in class. And adults would always tell me that same shit; that I must have done something to incite it. The truth is really that a lot of kids have screwed up home lives and go outside everyday looking to take it out on someone. So the first mark they see, be it a white kid, chubby poor kid (e.g., me), they beat the shit out of. Trust me.
i got it for being small, flat, homely, and nerdy, and it only stopped when i started retailiating.
however, it shouldn't be up to the kids to fight their own battles, the school has a duty to protect and be accountable in these situations. its appalling that such duties are only acted upon when the press reminds administrators to do their job. i'm sure there are plenty of other non-white kids being horrendously bullied in that school, and the principal was probably equally non-responsive to the concerns of their parents. however it will take the glamour of a big press story and accusations of racism to get anything done about it. i wouldn't wish a stint in middle school on my worst enemy!
All those decades ago, I just kept telling myself, "daveb, someday you'll leave this town and all these yahoos behind and no one will make fun of you, your miniskirt and/or your parasitic twin, Jorge."
Gotta keep strong. Jorge and I will get there someday and our rainbow will shine, motherfuckers, shine!! -
What I think is odd is how people are mixing up (1) the fact the case is reported from (2) the fact the incident happened at all.
I'm not shocked the incident happened. I went to NYC public schools my whole life, and know this happens. And the amount of times I was called 'whitey' or 'Jew' definitely outnumbers the times I've said other racist junk to others; that's because I didn't call anyone anything.
As to why it might have been reported? Perhaps because someone (meaning the children's parents) decided to make a it a 'federal case' (to use a colloquialism) out of all of this. Just because something 'happens all the time' does not mean it should be ignored either.
So please, if you're pissed at the Daily News for perhaps choosing this one incident to focus on, you know, that is a very valid criticism. They are a tad better in their reporting than the NY Post, but their choice in what to report does mirror the NY Post at times. But let's not use that to theorize that 2 middle school kids from Oklahoma needed to do anything to provoke any fellow student in a Brooklyn school to pick on them and be racists themselves.
PS: Insider trading on Wall Street 'happens all the time', but that doesn't mean the people who have been busted--Boesky, Milken, etc.--should be ignored. -
Jack wrote: But let's not use that to theorize that 2 middle school kids from Oklahoma needed to do anything to provoke any fellow student in a Brooklyn school to pick on them and be racists themselves.
I didn't say they "needed to." I said we don't know whether they did or not. I wouldn't have brought it up at all if you hadn't added the "does nothing wrong" part, like they're some perfectly innocent little angels. Your "does nothing wrong" is where the "theorizing" first came into the picture
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