Hate crime spike in Crown Heights?
Article in today's Daily News: Hate crime spike in Crown Heights?
I haven't personally seen anything, but I have definitely noticed an upswing of reported incidents in the news in the last few weeks or so. But then I'm in the 77th, north of the 71st.
I haven't personally seen anything, but I have definitely noticed an upswing of reported incidents in the news in the last few weeks or so. But then I'm in the 77th, north of the 71st.
Comments
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I read about the 16 year old boy getting beat up on Errol Louis' blog Savebrooklynnow. There was a link to the site crownheightsinfo.org. where the beating was reported and below it, like a week or so ago, were something like 31 comments posted. Some of them were really inflammatory and most of them were virulently hateful and racist. Reading them was disturbing. I too live on the northern side of Crown Heights and I wasn't aware that tensions were so astronomically high. I can think of several instances where I've seen Jewish kids from the neighborhood playing with everyone else in Brower Park, including one where a bunch of African American kids were patiently teaching a Hassidic boy how to play basketball. I can only hope that the posts I read on that site were the words of a more extreme, out of touch, and possibly older slice of the community.
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Yeah, living on the north side, I frequently see Jews and blacks interact peacefully. One Lubavitcher I know has mostly black friends. When I'm with my Orthodox friends, we're generally treated politely and respectfully by the black community. The nail salon I went to has an equal number of Jewish and black customers.
That doesn't mean that there isn't tension under the surface, though, tension that I'm not privy to because I haven't been here long enough. It's called History, though I'm hopeful that the tide has changed and that these hate crimes are isolated incidents and not indicative of any long-simmering resentment between these communities.
In my experience though, blacks who express anti-Semitism tend to be younger and less well-educated. They're angry and looking to take it out on *someone*, so it isn't even about Jews, just that they are there and make a good target. Their anti-Semitism usually isn't ideologically driven and if the Jews weren't here, they'd attack someone else.
Still, I'm sorry to see this. I had to deal with anti-Semitism growing up and it was always the black kids who protected me from the white kids. -
Subject: Roger Kahn and Jackie Robinson
Here's a story I researched for a recent newsletter.
Roger Kahn and Jackie Robinson: Early Race Relations in Crown Heights
Race relations have been much the hot topic in Crown Heights in recent years. Since the riots of 1991, people often now associate Crown Heights with racial tension. Groups such as The Crown Heights Youth Collection and the Crown Heights Mediation Center have done much to address the underlying issues that fed the riots, but the stigma persists.
Given this history, it might be of interest for many to know that one of the most famous of US sports writers, Roger Kahn, author of The Boys of Summer, grew up in Crown Heights. Roger is Jewish but one of his closest friends, as discussed in his recent autobiography, Into My Own, was none other than Jackie Robinson. Robinson is famous of course for being the first African-American to play in major league baseball.
Roger became close to Jackie while covering the Dodgers where Jackie played first base. Roger was not yet a copy boy at the Herald Tribune when Jackie joined the Dodgers in 1947. But in 1952 he took over Dodger coverage for the Trib and had the privilege of spending many long hours on the road with Jackie. He heard many tales of the incredible drubbing that Jackie took from both fans and players as he integrated US baseball.
In one memorable incident Roger recounts in his book, Jackie was being intensely harassed by both fans and especially the bench during practice before his first game in Cincinnati. Suddenly, without warning, Pee Wee Reese, the Dodger captain (and a Southerner raised in segregated Louisville Kentucky) threw his arms up to stop the practice. With the whole stadium watching in awe, Pee Wee walked from his shortstop position over to first base and threw an arm around Jackie’s broad shoulders. Pee Wee glared at the bench and into the stands for several seconds and the catcalls quickly subsided. Jackie later told Roger “After Pee Wee came over like that, I never felt alone on a baseball field again.
Roger devotes an entire chapter in his book to Jackie Robinson. He tells of Jackie’s close relationship with Branch Rickey, the Dodger manager who hired Jackie and swore Jackie to an oath of silence as a condition for signing him. When Robinson asked if Branch wanted a man without the courage to fight back, Branch according to Roger bellowed that he wanted a man with the courage NOT to fight back. He then went on to allow that Jesus Christ would serve as a suitable role model. Jackie stuck to his pledge but it wasn’t easy. It’s never easy being a pioneer.
During his later years, Roger moved to Connecticut and lived not far from Jackie and his family in North Stamford. Jackie’s wife Rachel was the head of the psychiatric nursing department at the hospital affiliated with Yale in New Haven so the home was a convenient for the Robinsons. Roger tells a great story of when his young son, Roger, came with him to visit Jackie. Young Roger saw a football in a glass case that Jackie had gotten years earlier when he was a star on the UCLA football team. It was signed by the entire team and obviously of great value. When young Roger asked his dad if they could take the ball out and plan a little catch, Roger gently explained that this was a special football, not the kind you played catch with. Jackie immediately reached over, took the ball out of its case and handed to young Roger, saying, “Go on, have a good time with your dad.” As Roger points out in his book, the ball never touched the ground in a half hour of catch. He was very relieved when it ended up safely back in its case.
In late 1952, Jackie hired Roger to help him start a magazine called “Our Sports”. It focused on integration and told stories of interest to minority baseball fans. It lasted only a handful of issues but it was brave effort and gave Roger a chance to get to know Jackie from yet another perspective, that of writer and intellectual.
As Roger and Jackie’s friendship shows, race relations have not always been troubled in Crown Heights. We can only hope that their fine example can help us return to happier days yet again. -
Subject: Re: Hate crime spike in Crown Heights?
daver wrote: Article in today's Daily News: Hate crime spike in Crown Heights?
All propoganda by the old heads who may not like the intermingling of the youth with us goyum. It appears to me that the youth have gotten over the racial barriers presented by the old guard, on both sides.
I haven't personally seen anything, but I have definitely noticed an upswing of reported incidents in the news in the last few weeks or so. But then I'm in the 77th, north of the 71st. -
Subject: Re: Hate crime spike in Crown Heights?
mantic wrote: All propoganda by the old heads who may not like the intermingling of the youth with us goyum. It appears to me that the youth have gotten over the racial barriers presented by the old guard, on both sides.
All of the incidents I have seen recently involved teenagers, I'm unsure what you are basing your opinion on. -
Lucille wrote: crownheightsinfo.org.
Has this site been closed or are you talking about www.crownheights.info? That's a moderated site. Which comments were ugly? -
Looks like the moderator(s) took down many of the posts including the ones calling blacks in CH animals and beasts.
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Oh, there are still some ugly comments up there.
rage wrote:
we should show them what a good beating means.
here's what we do. we rome the streets. if we find more then three colored teenagers walking together, we confront them. start asking them questions.
and ask them to go home.
if they refuse, that's when the beating should start.
none of them should be able to walk after the beating. they must be hospitolized...
just pump the streets with fire. fight fire with fire.
Kahana Chai.
“every jew- A 22”
01/19/08 - 19:41Cee wrote:
These people are animals. We need to drive them from our community.
01/19/08 - 20:19 -Sruly K wrote:
Carroll & Kingston! OMG! I lived on that block a couple of years ago. May G-d be with you and shield you from these violent beasts.
You could always move...WOULD YOU LIVE IN HARLEM? Prob not...Why would you live there?
01/19/08 - 21:04 - -
holy shit!
it's pretty funny when people who devote their entire lives to god promote random racial violence. rock on, guys.
and who the hell says "colored"? -
That's why I stopped reading that site. They take an issue that rightly one should be concerned about and descend into hysteria.
I think what mantic is saying is coming from his observations of what's going on in the streets. While older Jews and blacks tend to keep their distance, there is much more intermingling by the young. I've seen this, too. Perhaps this is an aberration. My theory is that the perps were angry young men who would have attacked anyone. A Jewish kid was just a convenient target. -
caseopele wrote: Oh, there are still some ugly comments up there.
:shock: :shock: :shock:rage wrote:
we should show them what a good beating means.
here's what we do. we rome the streets. if we find more then three colored teenagers walking together, we confront them. start asking them questions.
and ask them to go home.
if they refuse, that's when the beating should start.
none of them should be able to walk after the beating. they must be hospitolized...
just pump the streets with fire. fight fire with fire.
Kahana Chai.
“every jew- A 22”
01/19/08 - 19:41Cee wrote:
These people are animals. We need to drive them from our community.
01/19/08 - 20:19 -Sruly K wrote:
Carroll & Kingston! OMG! I lived on that block a couple of years ago. May G-d be with you and shield you from these violent beasts.
You could always move...WOULD YOU LIVE IN HARLEM? Prob not...Why would you live there?
01/19/08 - 21:04 - -
homeowner wrote: Looks like the moderator(s) took down many of the posts including the ones calling blacks in CH animals and beasts.
That's some pretty bad moderation to allow stuff like that through. Disgusting. -
"just pump the streets with fire"
hahahaha
this dude is hard core -
filmlover44 wrote: [quote=homeowner]Looks like the moderator(s) took down many of the posts including the ones calling blacks in CH animals and beasts.
That's some pretty bad moderation to allow stuff like that through. Disgusting.
Well, I gather that the posts are pretty indicative of the attitudes of the Lubavitch community over there, so its no surprise that it remains. I think a lot of the problem is that the CH Lubavitch community is a mecca for Jews worldwide to come and study. There are always folks coming from all of the large Hassidic communities around the world coming there to live for months and study. So you have a lot of people that are not just unused to living with minorities, but who don't even have a sense of the complexity of race and class in this country. Add into that the insularity of the community, the sense that all others are somehow beneath them and its a pretty combustible mix. -
homeowner wrote: [quote=filmlover44][quote=homeowner]Looks like the moderator(s) took down many of the posts including the ones calling blacks in CH animals and beasts.
That's some pretty bad moderation to allow stuff like that through. Disgusting.
Well, I gather that the posts are pretty indicative of the attitudes of the Lubavitch community over there, so its no surprise that it remains. I think a lot of the problem is that the CH Lubavitch community is a mecca for Jews worldwide to come and study. There are always folks coming from all of the large Hassidic communities around the world coming there to live for months and study. So you have a lot of people that are not just unused to living with minorities, but who don't even have a sense of the complexity of race and class in this country. Add into that the insularity of the community, the sense that all others are somehow beneath them and its a pretty combustible mix.
You might be right. I guess I find it hard to believe because I've lived in a couple of peaceful neighborhoods without ethnic conflict where there were large Hassidic communities that had equally large populations of other marginalized minorities (Hispanic and Asian). I tentatively add that someone on these boards accused me of being anti-semitic because I said that the Lubavitch were cultish, so I shall say no more on this subject....Really. -
lilbangladesh wrote: That's why I stopped reading that site. They take an issue that rightly one should be concerned about and descend into hysteria.
Maybe it's just my perception. I think that there has been a big upswing of anti-semitic attacks. This is unfortunately not uncommon during economic downswings.
I think what mantic is saying is coming from his observations of what's going on in the streets. While older Jews and blacks tend to keep their distance, there is much more intermingling by the young. I've seen this, too. Perhaps this is an aberration. My theory is that the perps were angry young men who would have attacked anyone. A Jewish kid was just a convenient target. -
Unfortunately, that's been the pattern for millennia. Economy's down. Blame the Jews! Black people were not the first to do this and they won't be the last.
The difference is that I don't see black anti-Semitism as ideological. The only place where there is ideological anti-Semitism is among Farrakhan's crowd, and who pays attention to them anymore? I seriously doubt our young perps were enacting the teachings of Elijah Muhammad.
I think these kids were angry and looking for a target to take it out on. If this neighborhood were say, Black and Korean, a Korean person would have been the victim, not a Jew. -
Subject: Mug a Korean for Fun And Profit
So what you are saying is if the neighborhood had Koreans, Chinese or Mexicans the Jews would be off the hook.
The real problem was created by the insane rants of Sonny Carson,The Hon. Muhammed Khalid Abdul and the ever entertaining Charles Baron who have contaminated the minds of many young blacks who want to blame others for their problems.
Where are their parents and why hasn't the Rev.Al Sharpton addressed this problem
[no money to be made?] -
I *hate* Charles Barron. He's an evil demagogue. At least Al Sharpton repented of his earlier anti-Semitism and is capable of learning from his mistakes. He's loud and frequently wrong-headed, but not evil.
Where's Eric Adams? Didn't he say something about all this? I'd be surprised if he didn't. That's a pol I like and respect.
Hamilton, it's not that Jews would be off the hook, necessarily, but that there would be other targets. Sonny Carson et al are pretty much equal opportunity bigots. -
lilbangladesh wrote: Where's Eric Adams? Didn't he say something about all this? I'd be surprised if he didn't. That's a pol I like and respect.
There was a press conference with all of the local pols and leaders from the Jewish community. Eric Adams and Tish James were both in attendance. I'm not sure, but I think that Commissioner Kelly may have attended as well. Believe me, every politician whose district includes the southern half of CH is all over this. If you aren't responsive over there, you will be penalized on election day. -
Subject: Re: Mug a Korean for Fun And Profit
Hamilton wrote: So what you are saying is if the neighborhood had Koreans, Chinese or Mexicans the Jews would be off the hook.
i doubt chinese or koreans would get a free ride either. i remember getting blame for stealing jobs by minorites and gotten beaten and chased. as asians we don't get media attention like other groups get.
The real problem was created by the insane rants of Sonny Carson,The Hon. Muhammed Khalid Abdul and the ever entertaining Charles Baron who have contaminated the minds of many young blacks who want to blame others for their problems.
Where are their parents and why hasn't the Rev.Al Sharpton addressed this problem
[no money to be made?] -
It depends on the character of the neighborhood. If it were a Black and Korean neighborhood, the Koreans would get blamed, but since this is a Black and Jewish neighborhood...
It's easier to blame someone else rather than fix your own problems. It's how Tsarist Russia pacified the peasants. Instead of doing anything concrete to improve peasants' lives, they just blamed the Jews. A few pogroms and political unrest goes down.
I'm not saying that there is any government involvement here, just that bigotry follows age-old patterns, no matter who's perpetrating it. -
WOW.
way to assume that black people are automatically the aggressors against other groups. -
No. I wasn't actually. If you read earlier in the thread, you'll read how I was protected from anti-Semitism by black people. And then we got on the subject of black anti-Semitism, which I say is non-ideological, that is, those lunkheads who are attacking people are looking for targets of convenience, not Jews in particular. Black people are no more anti-Semitic than anyone else, in my experience.
Unlike, say, white people in the Aryan Nation, who foam at the mouth at the thought of a living Jew, even though they've never met one.
Angry people attack and are aggressive, and they come in all colors. -
sweet tea wrote: WOW.
huh?
way to assume that black people are automatically the aggressors against other groups.
seriously. HUH? -
filmlover44 wrote: [quote=sweet tea]WOW.
huh?
way to assume that black people are automatically the aggressors against other groups.
seriously. HUH?
okay, i don't want to get into a big thing about this, so i will post an explanation of that sentiment, but don't intend to go back and forth with lilb about it:
i found the commentIf this neighborhood were say, Black and Korean, a Korean person would have been the victim, not a Jew.
incredibly...careless.
i don't usually bother responding to lilb posts i disagree with, but i felt weird letting that one pass and sit, unchallenged, on a board that i love and am associated with and which is, from time to time, accused of racism. -
Oh, ok. I see your point. It was carelessly put. I think the point was that the person was not attacked because they were Jewish but because they were seen as "an outsider" and that the attack was not specifically anti-semitic.
This was in response to me...I was saying that anti-semitic attacks are up everywhere and that Jewish people are specific targets (not specifically by Black people).
I saw his post as a hopeful one, vis-a-vis, He hopes that Jewish people are not targets.
I guess that I can see how that could be taken the other way. Hopefully he didn't mean that anyone who wasn't Black would be attacked. -
No I didn't. And if that was carelessly put, I apologize. It certainly wasn't my intention.
I'm well aware that blacks aren't always the aggressor in every situation. My best friend is a black truck driver and when he makes runs in the deep South, I get scared for him. God forbid his truck should break down in a bad area for him. Or in Martinsville, IN, for that matter, which he often has to pass through to get home.
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lilbangladesh wrote: No I didn't. And if that was carelessly put, I apologize. It certainly wasn't my intention.
Boy, that one still didn't come off quite right.
I'm well aware that blacks aren't always the aggressor in every situation. My best friend is a black truck driver and when he makes runs in the deep South, I get scared for him. God forbid his truck should break down in a bad area for him. Or in Martinsville, IN, for that matter, which he often has to pass through to get home.
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filmlover44 wrote: [quote=lilbangladesh]No I didn't. And if that was carelessly put, I apologize. It certainly wasn't my intention.
Boy, that one still didn't come off quite right.
I'm well aware that blacks aren't always the aggressor in every situation. My best friend is a black truck driver and when he makes runs in the deep South, I get scared for him. God forbid his truck should break down in a bad area for him. Or in Martinsville, IN, for that matter, which he often has to pass through to get home.
sure didn't sound right to this southerner.
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