M.S. 51
My daughter has encountered more racism at the school that she has been attending than any 5th grader should be expected to handle. I've tried to advocate for her and I'm now thinking of taking her out of her highly regarded private school and sending her to the M.S. 51. I don't want her to endure trauma on top of trauma. Does anyone have any idea how many east Asian kids (if any) attend M.S. 51?
Thanks so much (and please don't flame me for posting this!).
Femme
Thanks so much (and please don't flame me for posting this!).
Femme
Comments
-
no clue-but, I am sure if you google, you can find the latest school report on it. that should have racial backgrounds broken down on it. Also, isn't 51 a magnet school that you have to test to get into now?
-
MS 51 is great - my oldest daughter went there and loved it. It's incredibly racially diverse. She had friends of all ethnicities, and over 50% of her crowd spoke a non-English language at home.
But you do have to test into it, and it starts at 6th Grade. -
ljnd wrote:
Are you sure it is to test into the school or test into the gifted programs because in Jr. High its your District that determines what school you can go to.
But you do have to test into it, and it starts at 6th Grade.
I have also heard some good things about the new Jr. High called the upper Carroll School which is housed in the old Sarah J. Hale building on Dean.
I am in District 13 and my son attends JHS 266 (Sterling bet. 5th and 6th) and its is a small, wonderful school which is part of the Apple Laptop program. -
As far as I know, MS 51 is no longer a district school but a magnet school-which would mean you can't just go there if you are 'zoned' for it-you must meet the criteria which I know a while ago was testing, etc. i of course, could be wrong.
-
LongTimeSloper wrote: As far as I know, MS 51 is no longer a district school but a magnet school-which would mean you can't just go there if you are 'zoned' for it-you must meet the criteria which I know a while ago was testing, etc. i of course, could be wrong.
I know for sure that the test to get in to 51 IS specific for getting admitted to their programs. What I am vague about is are kids who are in the 51 area going there at all anymore. I am sure someone can answer that for sure.
I sent all 3 kids to 51 many years ago when it was just coming in to its own as a viable junior high and now I teach music to many kids who attend... I talk to a lot of happy kids and parents. -
Subject: Re: M.S. 51
femmedada wrote: My daughter has encountered more racism at the school that she has been attending than any 5th grader should be expected to handle. I've tried to advocate for her and I'm now thinking of taking her out of her highly regarded private school and sending her to the M.S. 51. I don't want her to endure trauma on top of trauma. Does anyone have any idea how many east Asian kids (if any) attend M.S. 51?
Holy crap. Are you talking about a school on 5th Avenue and 5th Street?
Thanks so much (and please don't flame me for posting this!).
Femme
I was walking by there today around 8:30 AM and some kids -- small guys -- were shoving each other around and yelling racist things ("white" curse word this and "black" curse word that") at each other. I wondered about what kind of families these brats had and decided never to walk on that side of 5th Avenue again. I'm not afraid of these small fries/ Yet it's annoying that it's 2008 and people (and kids) are still acting like a bunch of animals. -
Subject: Re: M.S. 51
[quote="femmedada"]My daughter has encountered more racism at the school that she has been attending than any 5th grader should be expected to handle. I've tried to advocate for her and I'm now thinking of taking her out of her highly regarded private school and sending her to the M.S. 51. I don't want her to endure trauma on top of trauma. Does anyone have any idea how many east Asian kids (if any) attend M.S. 51?
**************************
I would not send my child to that school, I passed by there last week and was surprised to see a Police presence and after passing through the students standing outside the school and on the corner of 5 St. and hearing the shit flowing from them,I understood the Police presence
I feel these are the children of the prozac generation and would subject your child to more then you may want to deal with.
************************** -
Subject: Re: M.S. 51
Holy crap. Are you talking about a school on 5th Avenue and 5th Street?
Kind of an extreme reaction to pledge to never walk past the school again. They're middle school kids - what do you expect? I've walked by there many times before/after school when a lot of kids are around -- they're definitely rowdy, but show me a group of hundreds of 12 and 13-year-olds that aren't rowdy.
I was walking by there today around 8:30 AM and some kids -- small guys -- were shoving each other around and yelling racist things ("white" curse word this and "black" curse word that") at each other. I wondered about what kind of families these brats had and decided never to walk on that side of 5th Avenue again. I'm not afraid of these small fries/ Yet it's annoying that it's 2008 and people (and kids) are still acting like a bunch of animals.
It's actually a very diverse school, and solid academically, according to this website:
http://www.insideschools.org/fs/school_profile.php?id=434 -
I have heard that a lot of the craziness outside of the school at dismissal is caused by kids coming over from other schools looking for trouble.
-
Thanks, everyone, for your help.
No, I'm not talking about a school in this neighborhood at all. My daughter attends a very well known school in Brooklyn Heights.
Femme -
LongTimeSloper wrote: I have heard that a lot of the craziness outside of the school at dismissal is caused by kids coming over from other schools looking for trouble.
Clear memory of kids coming from the incarnated John Jay coming over to 5th Ave and making trouble.. harassing the little ones from 51... a memory from last year but might still be going on. Yeah the kids from 51 can be rowdy when school lets out I do hear their banter to include racial epithets ( now where they learn that is Rap, and home and goodness knows where).
femmedada... ok fess up... Where does the little angel of your attend school.. St Anne's? -
I used to live across the street from 51 and those kids annoyed the crap out of me. Every day after their lunch break the sidewalks were filthy and the school only cleaned the school side of the street. Most of the annoying stuff was them just being teenagers, loud, obnoxious, blocking the sidewalk, etc... But I haven't forgotten about the 2 little brats who threw rocks at a squirrel while it was clinging to the grate on a side window of the school. If I hadn't been sick I might not have cursed at them and scared the crap out of them. (I had my 2 biggish dogs with me.) Then again, that may have been what made them stop so quickly.
I'm actually pretty sick right now so this may be slightly incoherent. I just can't seem to keep my mouth shut when I'm sick! -
My daughter went to 51 and I thought she got a pretty good education there. For all that is great about Park Slope, it is not very well served by the public schools once you enter the middle school level. And for high school, you'll definitely need to look outside the neighborhood. Lots of Park Slope kids go to 51 but the school draws from other parts of the borough as well and even Staten Island. I was surprised by the number of fights among the kids - at least a few times I know about the police being called to haul away someone. My daughter said that some - not all - of these fights would be instigated by John Jay kids who would come by after school.
MS 51 has long been known for its focus on the arts. The teacher who ran a very solid music program recently retired, and I don't think that program is as ambitious as it used to be.
Regarding the racism thing: I think it is everywhere at some level in the public schools, especially with kids among that age. I see kids tending to stick to their own kind (even very narrowly, for example, Puerto Ricans keeping some distance from Dominican kids), talking about the fact that the "nerdy white kids" use drugs more than other kids, or making fun at the new arrivals from Mexico. They can be brutal with each other, based on clothes, hairstyles, the brand of backpack you carry, etc. So it's tough at this age anywhere you go in NY.
For all that, I'd say MS 51 has a lot of good qualities and dedicated teachers, but definitely try to meet with the principal or other administrators there before you make your decision. -
I live a couple blocks away from there, and I make it a point not to go out between 3 and 4 if I can avoid it. I'm sure that many nice, smart, quiet kids go there -- they must disperse as fast as their legs can carry them, because the ones I run into are a pretty pathetic bunch. They're very aggressive, extremely loud (they don't so much talk as all scream over each other at the same time), and challenging of everyone who dares to enter their "turf."
I went into Pollio a month or so ago (my first mistake), to pick up a sandwich. A gaggle of PS 51 girls were in the entry way, blocking my passage. When I tried to get through, they stared me down. Now, bear in mind I'm very far from high school age, and that's putting it kindly, so it's not as if they were defending their turf from some other local kids. No, they just put on this tired, weak "I'm a tough mofo and I own the streets" schtick for whoever happens to be passing by. It's pretty sad. I ignored them and got my sandwich. But really, come on.
I've also noticed that the MS51 kids take over JJ Byrne playground as soon as school lets out, often making it unusable for tiny tots and their moms. "Gang" activity has fallen pretty low when it consists of blocking the path of Park Slope moms and their toddlers. (What would the legendary PS gangs of the 50s and 60s say?) More than once, I've seen a 51'er smushing her fat adolescent ass onto the top of one of the baby swings -- yes, that's right, the baby swings, the ones with little leg-holes -- and hanging out with a group of other feebs in the fenced-off baby swing area. It's obnoxious, and frankly, pretty depressing; if this is your idea of being hard and intimidating people, you must be a little "special." In all seriousness, is it possible that there is a "special ed" component to this school? This behavior is hard to account for with the usual "teens letting off steam" explanation.
My kid is far from MS age at the moment. I must say, though, I can't imagine him learning anything if he took classes with the kids I describe above. Home schooling is looking better all the time. -
Everyone is trying to get in to Area 51. I too would like to understand the mystery of Area 51.
-
arock75 wrote: Everyone is trying to get in to Area 51. I too would like to understand the mystery of Area 51.
Bottom line it is hard to find a good JH in Brooklyn and 51 may not be perfect but is a good fit for many children. When my kids went there it was the early years and these select kids ate lunch in cl;assrooms under the guise of "clubs" and they wer dismissed 15 minutes earlier than the rest of the school. I hated that purely racist concept but had no choice at the time but to go along with it. The school is a mixed population and there is an element of rowdy kids that go there and act out and they cross ethnic/racial lines. -
Chalk me up as another one that avoids that area at all costs when those kids are out. It's truly unbearable. I have a sis in her first year of high school at the moment, 3 younger brothers not that far removed from ms/hs and I myself am not all that old. But I have to tell you, my experience, from what I remember, of middle school in Virginia, and what I see outside that school is very different. Sure, we hung around in packs/crowds. Sure, we may have gotten a little loud here and there, used our share of profanity, and sure the occasional fight broke out. But that school is on a whole other level. A whole other level. When I've been unfortunate enough to walk by there at the right (wrong?) time, I walk by feeling embarrassed for the ones participating in the antics (the language, the posturing) and sad for the ones who want to just go to school and have no interest in being a hoodlum. I don't know what's changed. I don't know if it's an inner-city, urban NY thing vs my small-ish city, VA thing, but it's just so different and I can't help but think that it's not the best of environments. I know parenting figures into it, but at some point, at that age, they also have to take responsibility for their own actions and make choices on how they want to behave and how they want to be perceived. I can only guess where they're learning, and replicating, all of this disdain for acting like a civilized human being...where being foul-mouthed and "anti-authority" is celebrated. :roll:
-
LongTimeSloper wrote:
St. Ann's is fairly racially diverse. It's Packer that caters to the white, investment banker dad/SAHM crowd.
femmedada... ok fess up... Where does the little angel of your attend school.. St Anne's?
Friends, on the other hand, is home to the kids who get thrown out of both Packer and St. Ann's. -
SAHM?
Please... an assist for those of us who are acronymically challenged?
Thanks. -
SAHM = Stay at home mom
I can't think of a middle school or high school in NY that i wouldn't stay away from at dismissal time! -
booklaw wrote: SAHM?
Stay at home mom
Please... an assist for those of us who are acronymically challenged?
Thanks. -
Subject: Re: M.S. 51
femmedada wrote: My daughter has encountered more racism at the school that she has been attending than any 5th grader should be expected to handle. I've tried to advocate for her and I'm now thinking of taking her out of her highly regarded private school and sending her to the M.S. 51. I don't want her to endure trauma on top of trauma. Does anyone have any idea how many east Asian kids (if any) attend M.S. 51?
Oh man, I'm sorry to hear that. I think that Middle School is just plain hell and the idea that there is a good Middle School somewhere is just fantasy so I wish you luck.
Thanks so much (and please don't flame me for posting this!).
Femme
As far as the school that she is in now, I assume that you are taking action. If not, I urge you to do so. At the very least, you can protect some other kid down the road.
I strongly doubt that a public school is going to be a big improvement or the solution you are looking for at the Middle School level. Schools tend to be far more responsive when you are paying them. -
You should all listen to this. It made me cry.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1163 -
Wow -- color me puzzled. This description from Inside Schools must have been written about an MS 51 from an alternate universe, or else the really dumb and aggressive kids are coming from somewhere else and just congregating near 51.
http://www.insideschools.org/fs/school_profile.php?id=434 -
Brooke Lynn Knight wrote: Wow -- color me puzzled. This description from Inside Schools must have been written about an MS 51 from an alternate universe, or else the really dumb and aggressive kids are coming from somewhere else and just congregating near 51.
http://www.insideschools.org/fs/school_profile.php?id=434
A lot of the problem kids who see hanging around 51 when school lets out are not from the school-that is a big problem there. -
My daughter's experience was pretty much like what was written up in the Inside Schools piece. She really blossomed at 51. And Lenore Berner is a terrific principal.
The police presence has been there for at least 4 years. This is largely because kids from other schools come down the Slope and harass the 51 kids. I live on 5th Street, right up the block from 51, and at 3:00 the street becomes a corridor that funnels high schoolers and other middle schoolers down to 51.
I agree that the lunch hour and immediate after-school time can become rather rattling. Large numbers of pre-adolescent and adolescent kids, who might be pretty big but are in no way adult yet, are disconcerting to say the least. But the same kids who are squishing their rears into baby swings are the ones who are babysitting their younger siblings, cooking dinner, picking up laundry and dry cleaning, walking dogs - in other words, they're adolescents and are capable of being both phenomenally stupid AND very responsible...often in rapid succession.
So I wouldn't view loudness and shoving and staring-down and staking out the playground as a reflection on the school. They're acting that way outside the school because they cannot act that way INSIDE the school, for one; for another, they're eleven and twelve and thirteen years old and they are clinically insane at that age. -
ljnd wrote: My daughter's experience was pretty much like what was written up in the Inside Schools piece. She really blossomed at 51. And Lenore Berner is a terrific principal.
I agree, even the smart ones can be stupid and obnoxious at that age. My daughter went to 51 too (and I think is friends with your daughter, ljnd) and had a great experience. It's a good school for the kids who are willing to do the work. Unfortunately there are a lot of kids there who are obnoxious, disruptive and not particularly interested in school. I was never sure why that was the case in this so-called "gifted" school. Admissions are "screened" in that they have to have high enough scores on the 4th grade standardized tests, but I think they could set the bar a little higher. I also think, and this is mostly hearsay, that there are quite a few kids there who did not meet the admission criteria.
The police presence has been there for at least 4 years. This is largely because kids from other schools come down the Slope and harass the 51 kids. I live on 5th Street, right up the block from 51, and at 3:00 the street becomes a corridor that funnels high schoolers and other middle schoolers down to 51.
I agree that the lunch hour and immediate after-school time can become rather rattling. Large numbers of pre-adolescent and adolescent kids, who might be pretty big but are in no way adult yet, are disconcerting to say the least. But the same kids who are squishing their rears into baby swings are the ones who are babysitting their younger siblings, cooking dinner, picking up laundry and dry cleaning, walking dogs - in other words, they're adolescents and are capable of being both phenomenally stupid AND very responsible...often in rapid succession.
So I wouldn't view loudness and shoving and staring-down and staking out the playground as a reflection on the school. They're acting that way outside the school because they cannot act that way INSIDE the school, for one; for another, they're eleven and twelve and thirteen years old and they are clinically insane at that age.
However, I spent a lot of time in the school as a volunteer and there is definitely not the chaos inside that you see outside. I think it's true that they go wild outside because they are pretty well controlled inside. -
redmenace wrote:
this is ironic. back when i was in school (nearly 30 years ago. gah) st. ann's had the reputation of taking all the kids who'd been thrown out of all the other private schools in the city. (yes, plural. these students had been thrown out of more than 3-4 schools.) the boys were kinda dangerous, in a cool way.
Friends, on the other hand, is home to the kids who get thrown out of both Packer and St. Ann's. -
I am still waiting for someone here, the media, or the government to properly explain the mysteries surrounding Area 51.
-
^^HAHA, very amusing
Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 40K All Categories
- 27.1K Neighborhoods
- 5.1K Crown Heights/Prospect Lefferts Gardens
- 7.1K Prospect Heights
- 2.3K Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy
- 8K Park Slope
- 549 Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Bushwick
- 442 Flatbush/Midwood/Ditmas Park
- 657 BoCoCa (Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens)
- 151 Red Hook
- 104 Gowanus
- 304 Bay Ridge/Bensonhurst
- 130 Coney Island, Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay
- 270 Brooklyn Heights, DUMBO and Downtown
- 598 Windsor Terrace / Kensington
- 673 Greenwood Heights and Sunset Park
- 749 Brooklyn and Beyond
- 6.3K Stuff
- 86 Brooklyn Back When
- 1.2K Brooklyn Pets
- 257 Brooklyn Kids
- 241 Brooklyn Eats
- 51 Brooklyn Booze
- 3.6K The Lounge / Random Stuff
- 611 Brooklyn Politics
- 122 Brooklyn Sports and Fitness
- 111 Brooklyn Photos
- 339 Site Issues
- 8 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- 6.2K Listings
- 1.1K APARTMENTS and REAL ESTATE
- 1.3K Sales Openings Events
- 2.3K The Classifieds