help save union hall from losing liquor license!!!
Comments
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I doubt they will lose it, more like they might give in to the community board and restrict their drinking hours.. I don't know, but it's a bar so they will get it.
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Mamacita wrote: I doubt they will lose it, more like they might give in to the community board and restrict their drinking hours.. I don't know, but it's a bar so they will get it.
According to a comment reply on the Brownstoner article lined above, the majority of complaints were between 11pm and 1am, so I don't know if restricting drinking hours is the answer. I feel like UH already has a bouncer outside stopping people from talking in front, signs everywhere about being quiet, and they have restricted access to the outdoor patio after 10pm. At what point does it stop becoming the bar's fault and start becoming the responsibility of an intoxicated adult to behave themselves when walking home? -
here is another article on the topic. these anti union hall people sound really nasty...
http://gothamist.com/2008/05/09/cb6_votes_again.php -
I live up the block on Union near 6th Avenue. Obviously I don't hear the people directly outside the bar at all but almost every night there are loud and obnoxious seemingly drunk people that I would assume the majority of are leaving Union Hall. Is it annoying sometimes? Yes. Do I think they should lose their liquor license? No. Umm you live in Brooklyn and if you think it is going to be quiet and peaceful all night you are deluded. Sorry but if it bothers you then move or suck it up. The bar is obviously doing whatever it can to keep the noise down and these complainers need to put their energy toward something more important. That's my 2 cents. Thank you.
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I used to live on Union Street right below 5th avenue for a couple of years. More than once I was woken up at the wee hours and had to run to the window to see who was about to get beat up and if I should be calling the police. (I am Gladys after all). This was before Union Hall opened. The 3:00 am anitics of "I'm gonna kick yer f**'n face in Jimmie" came from 200 Fifth Avenu the sports bar that is a few doors down from the corner of 5th and Union St.
I wonder how much of the ruckus is coming from the patrons of that bar as well. -
i was just about to post the very same message.
no real opinion on the liquor license issue, other than to say that 200 fifth is just as culpable for the after-hours rowdiness in this part of the slope, if not more so. -
UH is probably in trouble after mixing booze with under aged people in strollers.
Fair is fair. If I'm getting carded to enter a bar, those babies must get carded too. -
Union Hall should stay open because it is one of the only places with different entertainment options. Besides for the game of hard balls, Union Hall books some decent bands, offers affordable comedy and other interesting programs.
Sure UH attracts jackasses, serves overpriced drinks and crappy food, and has awkward seating arrangements and a low ceiling above it's performance stage. However, Union hall spices up our nightlife options.
With nightlife traffic more of our local restaurants that must pay monthly rent of around $10, 000 will survive. So even if you don't like Union Hall, but like stuffing your face with sushi, black beans, and fancy grilled cheese sandwiches from 5th Avenue's restaurants, you should support Union Hall.
As far as dangerous places that should be eliminated goes, I vote for Key Food's parking lot on 5th Avenue. -
Union St. was ALWAYS a busy street, we all know that. I often wonder how I would feel if a bar opened near me. I've been lucky so far, and I think UH is a great bar...so it's easy for me to say, "Hey this is bk/nyc, get used to it!" When whiners who moved to the LES in the last 10 years complain about the noise, I'm outraged. They moved there BECAUSE it was hip and happening! Don't shut the door after you've gotten yours! But Park Slope....I dunno...I'd have to walk a mile in those rent controlled shoes....
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Subject: Brooklyn is Brooklyn, not a subburb
No. Umm you live in Brooklyn and if you think it is going to be quiet and peaceful all night you are deluded. Sorry but if it bothers you then move or suck it up.
I am going to have to agree on this. Park Slope was never a "quiet neighborhood," and to force the neighborhood to realign itself with non-New York qualities is outrageous.
Moved-to-Brooklyn-still-out-of-towners should reassess why they moved here, and if the fit is right. This isn't a small town, nor is it Manhattan. Brooklyn has a tradition of people on the street, hanging out. People on my block have hung out to 3:00am in the morning, on the weekends, sometimes yelling and laughing, since the time I grew up here(+35yrs). Get use to it, start loving it.
If Park Slope is too noisy, maybe this is the wrong place for you to live. No worries, and trust me, there are 10 people behind you just waiting for the chance to hear the interesting, unique, and sometimes annoying sounds of Brooklyn, day or night.
Charlesbklyn -
Subject: Re: Brooklyn is Brooklyn, not a subburb
charlesbklyn wrote: If Park Slope is too noisy, maybe this is the wrong place for you to live. No worries, and trust me, there are 10 people behind you just waiting for the chance to hear the interesting, unique, and sometimes annoying sounds of Brooklyn, day or night.
It can suck, change is the way of things. A place is the same until it isn't, new people come along and impose their values, and before the long-timers know it they're in the minority wondering what the hell happened and in need of reasessment.
Charlesbklyn
You can take any number of neighborhoods in New York ("When I was boy, we used to have a Fortunoff in East New York!"), New York City itself ("awww, man remember when there were hookers in Times Square? That was so vibrant!) or even any number of states ("We voted Republican since at least 100 years ago before those Ben and Jerry hippies showed up...").
Telling people to buck up or leave won't make a difference, because they don't care what you think - at some point a community that's changing will reach critical mass on an issue or it won't. Join the fight, but realize that you may lose due to circumstances beyond your control.
As for Union Hall, well, it is a good place to catch some music now and then - I just wish there was a different entrance for the downstairs part so I wouldn't need to go through the upstairs part. And although I do manage to go out drinking on a pretty regular basis, I try to act like I've done it before. Some of these jackasses are hooting like teenagers that just pounded a half-pint of peppermint schnapps pilfered from Mom n' Dad's liquor cabinet. I'd hate to see 5th Avenue suffer because of them. -
Subject: Re: Brooklyn is Brooklyn, not a subburb
Drano wrote: And although I do manage to go out drinking on a pretty regular basis, I try to act like I've done it before. Some of these jackasses are hooting like teenagers that just pounded a half-pint of peppermint schnapps pilfered from Mom n' Dad's liquor cabinet. I'd hate to see 5th Avenue suffer because of them.
ding!
we have a winner.
The people complaining are old-timers btw. Yes, I know some of them. -
i loled at the peppermind schnapps reference.
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Subject: True
It can suck, change is the way of things. A place is the same until it isn't, new people come along and impose their values, and before the long-timers know it they're in the minority wondering what the hell happened and in need of reasessment.
I agree with much of this. However, I believe the unique issue is whether the changes being made to Park Slope make it a better place, or do they diminish the unique and attractive character forged over time. I, for one, refuse to allow the great Brooklyn culture in Park Slope to be replaced with a main stream, middle American blah culture. We definitely do things different here, and there is no good reason to replace it. Diversity, both cultural and economic, and dignified middle class living.
The Brooklyn we know, or ............just another part of the fast everything, low quality, corporate nation
Residents of Park Slope must take a hard look before they allow an imposition of values and structure that are counter to the reasons why we live here in the first place.
And yes, I am growing old, like a tree grows in Brooklyn. And fortunately, these tress last for many years.
Charlesbklyn -
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I will be at the CB6 meeting tonight to show my support for Union Hall. I hope to see some of you there!!
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belzjm wrote: can you even believe this jon crow dude?
no time to read the clip you posted, but I know real-life crow.
http://gothamist.com/2008/05/13/union_hall_goes.php
he's a great guy! and you, belz would totally want to hang out with him.
Heard the CB6 thing did not go so well for the residents of Union St, and that (unlike the earlier hearing where pulling the license was recommended after the testimony) nobody but the owners were allowed to speak . . . that sucks.
Whatever, Union Hall shouldn't have gone into that spot in the first place. It may be close to the strip, but it's actually on a residential street.
I hope they move all the loud stuff to the other place they are building in Gowanus, surrounded by the rapidly gentrifying industrial wasteland. -
I don't know this Jon Crow guy, but it is not cool to file a false report to the fire department. It is also completely inappropriate for a bar owner to be voting on a liquor license for a competing bar. However, I have tremendous sympathy for the neighbors of this bar. The Union Hall space was only recently converted to a bar so the neighbors have had this forced upon them. I have no problem with them organizing to protect their neighborhood from excessive noise. I would not be happy if someone turned the house next to mine into a bar and music venue, and neither would you.
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pitu wrote: [quote=belzjm]can you even believe this jon crow dude?
no time to read the clip you posted, but I know real-life crow.
http://gothamist.com/2008/05/13/union_hall_goes.php
he's a great guy! and you, belz would totally want to hang out with him.
Heard the CB6 thing did not go so well for the residents of Union St, and that (unlike the earlier hearing where pulling the license was recommended after the testimony) nobody but the owners were allowed to speak . . . that sucks.
Whatever, Union Hall shouldn't have gone into that spot in the first place. It may be close to the strip, but it's actually on a residential street.
I hope they move all the loud stuff to the other place they are building in Gowanus, surrounded by the rapidly gentrifying industrial wasteland.
Actually, I was at the meeting and I don't know who told you nobody but the owners were allowed to speak but that couldn't be further from the truth. The owners were NOT allowed to speak (and if I'm not mistaken, haven't really been allowed to speak at any of the meetings through this entire debacle). At last night's meeting, only community board members were allowed to speak - so, the people voting and not the bar owners.
Also, as pointed out at the meeting last night, Union is not a residential street. If I'm not mistaken it is mixed use and I don't remember the exact number but one of the community board members made the point that between 4th Ave and 7th Ave there are twenty-something businesses. Doesn't sound residential to me. It's not like Union Hall is operating illegally - they are allowed to be in that space because it is zoned for business by law.
And lastly, you should really check out the link which you didn't have time to read above, as it shows Jon Crow called 911 on Union Hall under completely false pretenses. It's a video and he's on it - he's also admitted to doing this, so there's no arguing on this one. Jon Crow used our community resources to . . . well I'm not even sure what he was trying to do, but either way it's deplorable. Thank god there were no real emergencies at that same time our Police, Fire, and EMTs were tied up in that mess.
It should be noted for anyone who has not been watching this story that the noise complaints by a couple of neighbors have nothing to do with the music or noise levels inside the bar, and everything to do with drunk idiots who don't know how to be quiet when walking home later in the night. Fortunately a community board member last night had 21 letters from people on the actual block who were in support of Union Hall and the board voted overwhelmingly to back a license renewal. -
As a supporter of Union Hall, I absolutely know that I am not a fan of Jon Crow. I hear what you're saying Pitu, but I feel very strongly that the residents up in arms on Union St. are being unreasonable. I've walked home MANY times up Union Street with friends, drunk and possibly loud coming from any number of bars on 4th or 5th (and I'm truly sorry to anyone either me or my friends may have bothered). It's the main street leading up to my house with the most foot and car traffic so I take it late at night, as many do. To suggest that every loud person on a major street is coming from Union Hall is ridiculous.
Union is a mixed use street, there have been NO violations to date against Union Hall that I know of, the owners are some of the most respectful I've ever seen towards the street and community and I absolutely don't approve of Jon calling in a false report to the Fire Marshall.
That sounds like a crazy person to me.
And not in a good way. -
I used to live a few doors up from what is now Union Street. I left before Union Hall went in but I was there when Louie G's went in and really, what's the difference between the two establishments? One closes earlier but it's plenty loud over on that side of street during the summer when everyone and their mother (and every cop in town with their parked police cars) are over there getting ice cream. With Union Market, the foot traffic has only increased. The block has changed and I don't see a reason why Union Hall should get the brunt of the blame.
And the street has always been a high-traffic area for commercial vehicles which ain't quiet. Again, doesn't seem fair to punish Union Hall for just joining the party. If the people on that block are pissed, sell your million dollar brownstones and move elsewhere. -
yes my band was playing at southpaw and jon crow told us we should not play there as it was "another nuisance bar" like union hall. sounds a little taliban- like to me.
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Looks like Union Hall's keeping their license! From Gothamist:
"At last night's full Community Board Six Meeting in Borough Hall, passionate outcries were heard once again arguing over the motion to recommend against the renewal of Union Hall's liquor license. However, this time the loud voices were not coming from angry neighbors, but rather Board members themselves, speaking one after the next in favor of the Union Hall's continued presence in Park Slope. The CB6 not only rejected the motion put forth last week by Board member (and Brazen Head bar owner) Lou Sones, but overwhelmingly passed a new motion to take an official stance supporting Union Hall's liquor license renewal when it comes up before the SLA on May 31st."
More: http://gothamist.com/2008/05/15/union_hall_30_n.php -
belzjm wrote: can you even believe this jon crow dude?
I sooooo wanted that video to end with the firemen hoisting a few and singing with the UH patrons...
http://gothamist.com/2008/05/13/union_hall_goes.php -
Old Time Brooklyn wrote: ....If the people on that block are pissed, sell your million dollar brownstones and move elsewhere.
This comment proves your ignorance of the street and the people who live there. Most of them do not own "million dollar brownstones" as the block is mostly made up of multi-family houses. These aren't whining millionaires, but regular people who obviously feel as if their quality of life has been negatively impacted by the drunk idiots who can't leave a bar without acting like jackasses.
As far as "moving elsewhere" - why do the residents have to move? Why can't they stay and the bar be forced to move? As I said before, most of these residents lived there long before a bar opened on the block. Union is a two-way street, but it is primarily residential. I have no dog in this fight and could care less if Union Hall stays or goes, but I certainly don't begrudge the residents for letting their opinions known. God knows you would bitch and moan (as would I) if a bar opened next door to your home. -
I agree with you Jamzer, but you should read this and see how some people might think that these people protesting are a little on the crazy side...
"At last night's full Community Board Six Meeting in Borough Hall, passionate outcries were heard once again arguing over the motion to recommend against the renewal of Union Hall's liquor license. However, this time the loud voices were not coming from angry neighbors, but rather Board members themselves, speaking one after the next in favor of the Union Hall's continued presence in Park Slope. The CB6 not only rejected the motion put forth last week by Board member (and Brazen Head bar owner) Lou Sones, but overwhelmingly passed a new motion to take an official stance supporting Union Hall's liquor license renewal when it comes up before the SLA on May 31st
JON CROW was on hand watching the dissolution of his longstanding smear campaign against the bar--including a fake 911 call caught on tape and put up on You Tube. That video was cited by Board Members who said that angry neighbors "have not been fair to the owners" and "are out for blood." Crow's presence at the meeting was limited to passing a note to Sones during the debate and then standing at the meeting's end and shouting "I demand my time!" only to be soundly rejected by the Board.
Union Hall's staff and a fair amount of its clientele showed up in force this time around: cheering loudly as they watched the tables turn in their favor, booing Sones and the emotional statement he read about both him and his bar being "threatened", and finally staging a victory celebration on Borough Hall's steps after the vote with picket signs in hand as they cheered Union Hall's owners upon their exit out of the proceedings.
The Union Hall owners told Gothamist that not only would they continue to reach out to their neighbors by now holding open forum monthly meetings, but will also in all likelihood concede to the residents' biggest demand, that the bar shut its doors earlier on weekday nights. The owners said that they felt the complaint was more than fair and simply wished for the ability to make their own hours instead of having it dictated to them as part of a new license. Their efforts have been documented thus far here and here." -
I said million dollar homes not millionaires. Big difference. And to say they're not shows your ignorance of PropertyShark.com.
And these same people bought their brownstones cheap years and years ago when there were crackheads around the corner. That didn't seem to bother them as much as this bar. I guess they were quiet crackheads? -
I don't see why either side has to move - it seems to me that Union Hall has done more than their fair share of trying to meet in the middle. Their bouncers have a cell phone to which everyone on the street has the number and can call within seconds to voice any complaints and they set up monthly community meetings where people can voice any issues they may still have. So really, it's simple - if the neighbors have an issue they can call Union Hall or come to a community meeting and make their voices heard and I'm sure the owners of Union Hall will gladly do what they can to make everyone happy.
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Old Time Brooklyn wrote: I said million dollar homes not millionaires. Big difference. And to say they're not shows your ignorance of PropertyShark.com.
Again you have no idea what you are talking about. I went on Propertyshark and looked it up. The vast majority of the homes near UH are 3, 4, and 6 family homes. There are a few two family homes sprinkled in as well as a few larger developments (and one tenement??!!). The people who live here can't sell their "million dollar brownstone" because they don't own them, get it?
And these same people bought their brownstones cheap years and years ago when there were crackheads around the corner. That didn't seem to bother them as much as this bar. I guess they were quiet crackheads?
Union Hall opened well after the this neighborhood turned nice and the crack heads were gone. What do you know about the local residents efforts to clean up the neighborhood? They certainly had more to do with it than the owners of UH.
Belzm & RockerGirl77,
I can definitely see that there are two sides to the argument here. The UH owners seem to be making a good effort to work out the issues with the neighbors. There are a few crazies, no doubt. I have no issues with UH and part of me is happy that they got their license renewed. My issue is with the moronic argument that people who don't like something - loud bars, drunks, crack heads, bums peeing on the street, hookers, suburban style drive-thru banks, etc should shut up, sell their homes (or in this case stop paying rent) and move to the suburbs/Nebraska/back where they came from. Its a stupid, intellectually bankrupt, and childish argument. You did not make it, but others have. -
torisoaw wrote: Looks like Union Hall's keeping their license! From Gothamist:
So there was a process that prevailed. This is how this is supposed to work.
"At last night's full Community Board Six Meeting in Borough Hall, passionate outcries were heard once again arguing over the motion to recommend against the renewal of Union Hall's liquor license. However, this time the loud voices were not coming from angry neighbors, but rather Board members themselves, speaking one after the next in favor of the Union Hall's continued presence in Park Slope. The CB6 not only rejected the motion put forth last week by Board member (and Brazen Head bar owner) Lou Sones, but overwhelmingly passed a new motion to take an official stance supporting Union Hall's liquor license renewal when it comes up before the SLA on May 31st."
More: http://gothamist.com/2008/05/15/union_hall_30_n.php
Conspiratorial dummies were shut down, no one had to sell their homes and there's still one less bar to bring my kids to to get them hooked on booze, loose women and words like "swell."
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