proho goes international

guest wrote: just those who want to rip on the way other people look.

This is not a malicious board. I think the word 'rip' is a little extreme. I think there was some innocuous goofy / ironic / silly commentary of the sort that occurs here on a regular basis. I admit to my part in that. I would never attempt to speak for Carnivore, but my impression is that he kind of revels in his excellent "hipster-dar" and from what I can tell, his statement was entirely and only in good fun.

Life is weird ... often there is laughter through the tears ...

Captain M wrote: what is wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me, but as I said before his story is simply not unique. Hate to break the news to you, but there is crime in this city and many worse things happen to many other people all the time.

And yes, this theft ended up in a shootout. But was Glen Waterhouse caught in the middle of a blazing gun duel? No way. We all know that. The mugging is what triggered the hunt, chase and the shooting but in the gerat scheme of things nothing really happened to Glen to truly warrant his story getting that much attention in a national publication.

The reality is if he was not white and not a foreign resident living in the U.S., his side of the story would not get the spotlight it's gotten in this New Zealand Herald piece.

As for blaming the New Zealand Herald, they can be blamed. No doubt. But Glen could have also said "No thanks..." and nothing else would have happend to his account.

The guy simply comes off as a vanity case who looks upon this incident as a badge of courage in his New York experience.

Head over to criminal court. Or read police blotters in local publications. Glen's story is not that unique and there are TONS of other crimes that happen every day that simply don't get this kind of coverage.

Jack wrote: The guy simply comes off as a vanity case who looks upon this incident as a badge of courage in his New York experience.

Maybe to you he does. I disagree. Personally I find this level of cynicism exhausting. Do you walk through life making value judgements about everything and everyone that crosses your path, or do you reserve that pleasure for us here on DH, Jack?

Millions of incidents much, much, MUCH less newsworthy than this one get reported every day. (Three Mouse Droppings Found in Queens Bodega! OH MY GOD!!! Later, Paris Hilton Loses Cell Phone in Club Toilet Snafu!) I just don't see how it's worthwhile to judge this guy the way you have just because you don't think the crime he experienced was earth-shattering. 99.9% of crimes aren't anything new. Does that mean we shouldn't hear about any of them? Personally, I'd like to be aware of the more pedestrian crimes I might actually fall victim to. And if I got mugged and wrote about it on my blog and a newspaper for some reason happened to ask to pick it up...I mean, I don't even get where you're going with this. Why should he have said no?

If you're not interested in the story, don't read it. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be printed at all.

ETA b/c of cross-post: Most victims don't want the spotlight for fear of retribution, or for shame if it was something like a rape or domestic issue. I don't think that's relevant here.

Jack wrote: [quote=Captain M]what is wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me, but as I said before his story is simply not unique. Hate to break the news to you, but there is crime in this city and many worse things happen to many other people all the time.

And yes, this theft ended up in a shootout. But was Glen Waterhouse caught in the middle of a blazing gun duel? No way. We all know that. The mugging is what triggered the hunt, chase and the shooting but in the gerat scheme of things nothing really happened to Glen to truly warrant his story getting that much attention in a national publication.

The reality is if he was not white and not a foreign resident living in the U.S., his side of the story would not get the spotlight it's gotten in this New Zealand Herald piece.

As for blaming the New Zealand Herald, they can be blamed. No doubt. But Glen could have also said "No thanks..." and nothing else would have happend to his account.

The guy simply comes off as a vanity case who looks upon this incident as a badge of courage in his New York experience.

Head over to criminal court. Or read police blotters in local publications. Glen's story is not that unique and there are TONS of other crimes that happen every day that simply don't get this kind of coverage.

Jack, writing a lot of words does not make your points valid.

Like I said, no other ipod thefts end in shootouts, nor he or I ever said he was involved in said shootout.

The guy is from New Zealand, so they picked up a story about their own, so family and aquaintances could catch wind about it. Nowhere in the story does he mark his behavior as courageus, its mostly dry humor, and again...his story..not yours.

if it was you that got mugged I'm sure we'd never hear the end of it and of course it would be your badge of expertise in all things related from here on out in any other related thread from "ghetto" economy to music players

Please do not lump me and my cherry icon in with those who ridiculed this person. I said it was compelling. If you want to be taken seriously while sniping at people for the abstract icons they choose, you should do it with an icon of your own face, and a user name. :?

Guest Ian wrote: A cry for street cred that you previously chastised Mr. Waterhouse for. Yawn.

Actually would I have said that if it were not for the article being fluffed up the way it is?

How about this, 'Guest Ian'. Forget about me. Just go an read any NYC police blotter in the free weekly papers or other sources. And then let me know if Glen's story is really that compelling.

Jack wrote:
There's actually tons about my life and experience I have not shared nor do I care to. I'm also about 10-12 years older than most people on this board, so forgive me if I actually have seen and experienced more in this city than might make you feel comfortable.

Sounds pretty vain if you ask me. I'd say you ..

Jack wrote:
..come off like a smug ponce

Captain M wrote: Sounds pretty vain if you ask me.

Well, I'll remember that the next time a yuppie who has barely lived in this city 5 years passes judgement on the state of crime or what's 'good' for this city.

Jack wrote: [quote=bluedove]Age isn't a license to be opinionated and pompous.

Age and experience are two different things. And experience does give a person a so-called 'license'--more of a voice--to put things in perspective.

I completely agree. But you're equating the two, and I disagree with that. I don't pretend to think I've seen it all, but I know a lot of people 10-12 years older than me--or more--who are complete morons. For varying reasons. Quoting your age doesn't make me respect you or your points, that's all I'm saying. Putting forth a thoughtful argument that doesn't involve your own jaded "insights" might.

Jack wrote: The reality is that lots of members on this board have really not lived here more than a handful of years. I have nothing against that in any way. But I'm not going to sit back and ignore the fact that most people just don't have a true perspective on what this city is nowadays comapred to what it once was.

Now lets get back to pretending that this story is not getting the play it's getting because the victim was white, photogenic and foreign.

Way to thoughtfully answer a single point...oh, wait. :roll:

Jack wrote: Now lets get back to pretending that this story is not getting the play it's getting because the victim was white, photogenic and foreign.

Jack I do feel where you are coming from with statement and I do to a small extent agree but I still see no problem with his local and/or national paper running this story. To NZ this is news for THEM -

Now when you added this little bit to it:

Jack wrote: The reality is that lots of members on this board have really not lived here more than a handful of years. I have nothing against that in any way. But I'm not going to sit back and ignore the fact that most people just don't have a true perspective on what this city is nowadays comapred to what it once was.

I have to say that I have lived here all my life (lets just say 30+ years) and I am glad to this area improved to what it is now. I certainly do not want it to go back to where it was say 20-25 years ago. I went to PS 38 on Pacific Street and then went to the afterschool program at Colony Houses (right next door) and we had to be escorted by the police department. We could not even attempt to go to the library on 4th Ave and Pacific because there were too many hookers, johns and pimps. I couldn't even use the Douglas Street pool for many years because the junkies took that over. Those new houses on Underhill were vacant lots where garbage was thrown, junkies shot up and hookers used it as their own personal hotel.

Back then it was word of mouth that spread the "gossip" over who was mugged, whose house was broken into, etc. Now with the advent of computers it is easier to spread the "word" electronically and some of these news agencies pick it up.

stacey wrote: Now when you added this little bit to it:

[quote=Jack]The reality is that lots of members on this board have really not lived here more than a handful of years. I have nothing against that in any way. But I'm not going to sit back and ignore the fact that most people just don't have a true perspective on what this city is nowadays comapred to what it once was.

I have to say that I have lived here all my life (lets just say 30+ years) and I am glad to this area improved to what it is now.

Stacey, I did not say all members of this board, but 'lots' of members on this board. As in more than a handful of people. I really think someone like you--and like me--are really exceptions and do not direct that statement at you or anyone else who has grown up in this city and lived here through the truly rough times.

Let's face realty. Most people in their 20s living in NYC nowadays will not live here more than 3-5 years. And they simply don't have perspective on what this city was like and the level of crime that did exist.

Are a bunch of people really getting into a heated discussion on whether, in their opinion, a certain event is newsworthy?! WTF? If you find it newsworthy, great! If you don't, oh well!

Personally, I think that a lot of stories are like people- get to know enough about'em, and they become interesting.

On the surface, no, I don't think that his experience is all that unique- he got mugged... but when you go below that it gets interesting because of who he is, where he comes from, what his upbringing was like... essentially because of the all of the ways that he's similar to me (because I can connect with that) and because of all of the ways that he's different from me (because it gives me a different point of view).

To say that, 'he got mugged like 1000 other people every day, I've heard/seen it all before' is like saying, 'he's from (insert town, state, nation) and they're all the same- I don't have any interest in getting to know them' If that's what you think, fine, but not everybody feels the same.

Things have truly degenerated when someone like me is a voice of reason...

nybt wrote: Are a bunch of people really getting into a heated discussion on whether, in their opinion, a certain event is newsworthy?! WTF? If you find it newsworthy, great! If you don't, oh well!

That's actually exactly what I've been trying to say!

Sorry for letting Jack get under my skin, but the judgemental dismissiveness just really irked/s me. As well as his trying to make it into some kind of racial-bias thing that it really just is not.

Playing the race card (or any card, really...sexism, religious intolerance, whatever.) when it isn't warranted just to win an argument cheapens the very thing you're supposedly trying to defend, and that's a pet peeve of mine.

is there really anything more that needs to be said on this?

well, a couple of things:

1. mugging at gunpoint is a violent crime, even if it turned out the gun was fake. having a gun pointed at you (the one pointed at me on park place a few years ago in broad daylight was quite real) is a threat against your life. having someone take whatever he wants from you by force is, besides theft, a violation of your person. yes, rape and murder are worse, and crime was worse here decades ago, etc. but any violent crime tears at the social fabric of our city and our neighborhood and is worth addressing.

2. glen's experience is perfectly valid. everyone reacts differently to being put into that situation, a situation he did not volunteer for. he is entitled to write about it if he wants--on his blog, in a newspaper, wherever.

3. while it's true and unfortunate that the media pay more attention to crime with white victims than other victims (have we heard enough about the missing coed in aruba yet?), when police shoot someone in the street, and that person was out on bail for homicide, the newspapers here have a duty to report on it (no less so than when the victim is black). and when the victim is from new zealand, a country that is still mostly sheep farms, has virtually no crime and whose entire population is less than a third of new york city's, there's nothing wrong with the local newspaper publishing the story of a local's experience. it's reality.

4. there's been a lot of discussion about posting on a blog not being the same as publishing in a newspaper. that distinction, which is getting slimmer and slimmer, is already not very meaningful. post something on a blog and anyone with a computer and an internet connection anywhere in the world can read it. a newspaper, while still a powerful medium in many ways, actually has a smaller potential readership, especially in a place like new zealand. and a web-posting is not a private letter--it's out there.

5. the debate of whether glen's story is really compelling i think is answered by the outpouring of reaction on this board. which ultimately says as much about us and our feelings about crime in our neighborhood as it does about one new zealander's mugging.

vanilla wrote: maybe you would be more interested in the story if this person got mugged in your neighborhood, on your block, in front of your building?

Actually a few weeks ago right on Atlantic Avenue, right in front of where my front door is a hipster doofus straight out of Williamsburg with the army cap, baggy/ripped jeans, studded belt, hoodie and everything was in the middle of a heavy duty heroin trip. How do I know heroin? Hipster dumbass had all of his gear out there RIGHT on the street. Arm still tied off. He spiked right in the middle (as in about 3:30pm) of a sunny day on the on the west side of Atlantic Avenue right out in the middle of everyone. And was doing a slow heroin dance reaching out towards the lamp-post and falling back on himself. Quite charming and disgusting.

Called 911, had the kid picked up and went on with my day.

Oh, also he was white as day. And most probably a trust fundie. And I think I have actually spotted him going into one of the buildings on my block. At least I hope it was not him.

I see shit happen all the time on my block and in this neighborhood. Was I concerned about this waste-of-life's backstory? Not really. I was concerned enough to get 911 to pick him up. But that's it. No extended 1900+ word essay printed in a U.S. paper. No thumping and saying "Man, was that a New York experience!"

There's concern and there's level of concern. Sorry if I don't think Glen's story warrants the press coverage it got in any way. This is NYC and his story is so incredibly trivial in the bigger picture of other crimes that happen in this neighborhood. That's why I mentioned the police blotter multiple times.

Glen's story is 'compelling' simply from the fact he's young, white, foreign and photogenic. Nothing more. Nothing less.

If you're truly concerned about crime in your neighborhood, you'd realize that this story is not as 'compelling' as one might think.

For example, for all the people who are supposedly 'concerned' do you realize how many times police helicopters circle over Boerum Hill, Prospect Heights, Park Slope & Fort Greene on a daily basis? No doubt some of those incidents end up in nothing. But I'm quite sure there are many other 'compelling' crimes happening down in your 'hood--or your neighbors--than you'd even imagine.

Let's hope the victims are photogentic and white and young so we can all be more 'informed' about crime in the neighborhood.