Hoping You'll Disappear
Subject: "Hoping You'll Disappear"
Call this a continuation of the "why don't white people say hello" thread.On that thread, a few posters identified as black men and said variations on "when white people pass you on the street, they seem scared, ignore you and hope you disappear."
At the risk of starting another ignorant race thread, I am genuinely curious about the "hoping you'll disappear" part. It's a lonely, poignant thing to say, but as a white woman who has, I will admit, been afraid of black men in the street before and therefore could at one time have been the very person you're talking about... I have never wished anyone, ever, to disappear.
Have you ever felt like a white person was hoping you'd disappear? If so, what was that person doing to make you feel that way? Why say "disappear" instead of leave? Is that poetry, or do you really mean that you have felt a sensation of someone trying to vaporize you?
I ask because the language folks consistently use to describe this is so powerful--it's compelling to read such a specific sensation that I have a strong empathy for from many people. But at the same time, I can't imagine myself doing that. I'm not saying that "I am not a racist" or any other such claptrap. Everyone is soaking in racism--we are all implicated. But I don't feel powerful enough to disappear another person, or even to attempt to.
Anyway, when I feel ignorant, I try to ask questions. I am sincere, and I hope this stays civil.
Comments
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Strange.
Maybe I'm "old school" but I try to say "hello" to whomever I recognize when I'm out in the neighborhood. Even if I don't recognize you but we make eye-contact as we approach each other I will say "hello".
I find that it makes whatever journey I'm on that much more enjoyable. -
Did a few people express that sentiment or just one?
I'm asking because maybe you could PM that person vs assuming that many people of color share the same feeling.
I'm guessing it might be a difficult feeling to try to explain (I've never felt this way), but if you are sincere in this post, I think it's pretty cool that this has stayed with you and you truly want to understand. -
as a white guy i can say that i always say "hello" to any of my neighbors that i know (white or african american) AND i always give a "not" or a friendly "hello" to those i don't know (whit or african american) when we recognize each other as living in the building/neighborhood.
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CHAOCguy wrote: (white or african american)
european american or african american
african american is a racist name too. think about it. if we must be called that then you must be called european american. in reality we are all americans and its disgusting that people feel the need to use these divisive hypehenated names.
also keep in mind that many of your so called "african american" neighbors are in fact west indian or african. there is no greater insult to a west indian person than to label them african american.
black is a much better term. -
There are TONS of white people I wish would disappear.
How about a list in general of people who who should go the way of the lemmings and jump off a cliff:
#1 Bush
#2 The guy that wrote "who let the dogs out" -
Mamacita wrote:
dammit! now that's stuck in mah head, ya jerky!
#2 The guy that wrote "who let the dogs out"
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Anonymous wrote: [quote=CHAOCguy] (white or african american)
european american or african american
african american is a racist name too. think about it. if we must be called that then you must be called european american. in reality we are all americans and its disgusting that people feel the need to use these divisive hypehenated names.
also keep in mind that many of your so called "african american" neighbors are in fact west indian or african. there is no greater insult to a west indian person than to label them african american.
black is a much better term.
Okay now I know "guest" is just trolling. This from the same guy (I think) who was talking about "whiteys." On another thread. And If I am wrong it is your own falut for not registering.
But Andy Rooney - did you think this thread was going anywhere? -
Putnam-denizen wrote:
No I am not "trolling". I am speaking my mind just how you are speaking yours. I guess anyone with a different POV is a "troll" to you. Get off your high horse and read and maybe just maybe you might learn something.
Okay now I know "guest" is just trolling. This from the same guy (I think) who was talking about "whiteys." On another thread. And If I am wrong it is your own falut for not registering.
But Andy Rooney - did you think this thread was going anywhere? -
Mamacita wrote: There are TONS of white people I wish would disappear.
Actually, a black guy wrote "Who let the dogs out..."
How about a list in general of people who who should go the way of the lemmings and jump off a cliff:
#1 Bush
#2 The guy that wrote "who let the dogs out" -
queencallipygos wrote: [quote=Mamacita]There are TONS of white people I wish would disappear.
Actually, a black guy wrote "Who let the dogs out..."
How about a list in general of people who who should go the way of the lemmings and jump off a cliff:
#1 Bush
#2 The guy that wrote "who let the dogs out"
Yeah i was talking people in general. Non-racial (odd idea, I know :P )
#3 Dick Cheney
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I wish I had the ability to disappear, or at least cloud the minds of men --- you know --- like the Shadow. (I know that reference is dated.)
What are the social disadvantages of being "color blind"?
Do you think other people, as adolescents without any prior knowledge, upon first reading the title of Ralph Ellison's novel, "The Invisible Man", took it literally?
"In general relativity, an event horizon is a boundary in spacetime, an area surrounding a black hole, beyond which events cannot affect an outside observer. Light emitted from inside the horizon can never reach the observer, and anything that passes through the horizon from the observer's side is never seen again." --- Event Horizon, Wikipedia
If a black or white person disappears as the direct result of my wishing it, what are the legal repercussions?
This question is for those who remember the Twilight Zone episode about the kid who could wish anyone whom displeased him into the "corn field". If I remember correctly, he could wish anything into or out of existence. Since Rod Serling wrote this during the late 50's or early 60's, there are no black characters. All the people that disappear are white adults, however, if I were the kids' sister I'd rather disappear. He wishes a particularly unpleasantness upon her. Serling's' screenplay takes place in what appears to be a small mid-western town.
My question is: What do you speculate comprised this kids' moral code?
"Day of Absence" is a 1965 play by African American playwright, Douglass Turner Ward. It is set in any small town in the Deep South. Its' premise is the sudden disappearances of the towns entire black population. Chaos results. Without its black labor force, the town is paralyzed because of its dependence on this sector of the community.
Would this be the equivalent of a social event horizon surrounding a "black hole"? Metaphorically speaking of course. -
Why is someone "trolling" just because they're talking about whitey?
Putnam-denizen wrote: [quote=Anonymous][quote=CHAOCguy] (white or african american)
european american or african american
african american is a racist name too. think about it. if we must be called that then you must be called european american. in reality we are all americans and its disgusting that people feel the need to use these divisive hypehenated names.
also keep in mind that many of your so called "african american" neighbors are in fact west indian or african. there is no greater insult to a west indian person than to label them african american.
black is a much better term.
Okay now I know "guest" is just trolling. This from the same guy (I think) who was talking about "whiteys." On another thread. And If I am wrong it is your own falut for not registering.
But Andy Rooney - did you think this thread was going anywhere? -
When someone argues mutually contradictory positions (i.e. hyper sensitive about white people using "african-american" while themselves talking about "whitey"), I call that trolling. Responding to such nonsense is like boxing with the wind. Using terms like "whitey" is insulting and juvenile. But again, if this is fun to you all, just remember to wash your hands afterwards. I am not going to learn anything from someone who has such disrespect for others and is so unsubtle. Boring.
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I know what trolling is...
Sounds like the issue isn't about arguing "mutually contradictory positions" but
is more about talking about white people...
If the poster were arguing mutually contradictory positions about something else would they be accused of "trolling?" -
Black people are hyper-sensitive about white people using "African-American"? Thats news to me.
We may be sensitive to some of the bullshit we have to tolerate in this country and stuff that happened to our ancestors, but I've never heard of or personally felt sensitive about White people using "African-American"
but maybe thats just me... I definitely can't speak for everyone... -
...experiencing mild sensitivity in response to your signature closing, "Beware Killer Cops".
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eberri wrote: Black people are hyper-sensitive about white people using "African-American"? Thats news to me.
I simply pointed out that if we are called "African American" then white people should be called "European American". Otherwise we should all just be called Americans. If that is "hyper sensitive" then so be it. Seems to me the white people are hyper sensitive about any and everything but thats just my "trolling" opinion. <rolls>
We may be sensitive to some of the bullshit we have to tolerate in this country and stuff that happened to our ancestors, but I've never heard of or personally felt sensitive about White people using "African-American"
but maybe thats just me... I definitely can't speak for everyone... -
I'm good with calling all people Americans. Provided they in fact are Americans and would like to be identified as such. Or African-American. Or black. Or white. Whatever. Those are just words, they don't hold power over me.
I've run into plenty of folk who are very proud of their ancestry and would like to be identified as such. Puerto Rican. Irish-American. Italian-American. African-American. Cuban-American. Whatever. I don't think you will be able to get everyone to agree to one way or the other. But then, I don't see why we need to either.
I will be happy to call you an American. Or African-American. Or German-American. Or European-American. Or Central-American. Or whatever.
You can call me Al.
And I _always_ beware killer cops. Although sometimes these guys worry me too:
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Anonymous wrote: [quote=eberri]Black people are hyper-sensitive about white people using "African-American"? Thats news to me.
I simply pointed out that if we are called "African American" then white people should be called "European American". Otherwise we should all just be called Americans. If that is "hyper sensitive" then so be it. Seems to me the white people are hyper sensitive about any and everything but thats just my "trolling" opinion. <rolls>
We may be sensitive to some of the bullshit we have to tolerate in this country and stuff that happened to our ancestors, but I've never heard of or personally felt sensitive about White people using "African-American"
but maybe thats just me... I definitely can't speak for everyone...
Oh, and neither here nor there. Current scientific thinking in the anthropology field says that all humans derive from Africa. So I guess, it would be technically correct to call all of us African-American without regard to color. There is some disagreement about what happened when in terms of evolution, but all the major theories seem to agree the the species arose out of Africa.
*shrug* -
No, "Guest", you actually said "african-american is racist name too.", then you went on to say West Indians would be insulted to be called that, and Black (actually you used "black", but I've found it more respectfully to capitalize ethnic or racial categories) would be best. Whether your intention or not you sound pedantic, and not willing to be satisfied by the term anyone uses. And I know many a person of African descent who doesn't like the term "Black" for a whole host of reasons.
There certainly is room for a discussion of what race means to people, why "White" people need to see themselves as something other than the default color of humanity. But is that really a conversation you are willing and able to have? Of course you are free to continue with your now quite extension torrent of citations, name-calling, finger-pointing, etc, but I don't think you will find many very engaged by it.
I know nothing about you (your age, your experience, etc), but you sound very young to me, and very willing to pigeonhole other people. Your presumption that others haven't thought about these issues or that they are not persons of goodwill (even if they use a term you don't like) is a barrier to communication. Perhaps what makes some of this difficult is you have taken a number of threads to an abstract (if strangely puerile) level. What was interesting about the "white people don't say hi" topic was it grounded a discussion of individual fears, expectations, and group stereotypes into the concrete.
But don't call anyone whitey again. It isn't nice. -
Putnam-denizen wrote: No, "Guest", you actually said "african-american is racist name too.", then you went on to say West Indians would be insulted to be called that, and Black (actually you used "black", but I've found it more respectfully to capitalize ethnic or racial categories) would be best. Whether your intention or not you sound pedantic, and not willing to be satisfied by the term anyone uses. And I know many a person of African descent who doesn't like the term "Black" for a whole host of reasons.
And I know people of African descent (although, aren't we all?) who don't like the term African-American. Mostly because they are not African and have never been to Africa. *shrug*There certainly is room for a discussion of what race means to people, why "White" people need to see themselves as something other than the default color of humanity.
Anthropologically speaking, I would say that black is the default color of humanity.Whiteness in America: a state of racelessness and culturelessness?
http://www.colorq.org/articles/article.aspx?d=2001&x=raceless
Before the flames start flying, I want to say my answer to this question is a definite "No!" The reason I posed this question is because so many white Americans act as if they are "raceless" or "cultureless". This question first arose in my mind when I was reading the book Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?, which described an incident in which a white girl was asked what her ethnicity was, to which she replied, "I guess I'm just normal". Is "normal" an ethnicity? The white girl's statement implies she sees herself as without ethnicity, and also that "ethnic" peoples are abnormal.
I am not going to touch on whether black Americans or other non-white Americans see themselves as "normal" and people of other races as "ethnic". Personally, I don't believe they have the luxury seeing themselves as "raceless" because the white majority have chosen to define them by "race", and how you identify yourself is to a certain degree defined by how the larger society identifies you.
I prefer the term "European American" to "white". It is degrading to have one's identity reduced to skin color, but because whites have reduced other people in this manner, the inevitable effect is that others apply the same reduction to whites. "European American", on the other hand, denotes culture and ancestry, instead of a mere physical attribute. -
If you are upset over African American then complain to Jesse Jackson.
Do people think there will be a new term adopted to differentiate those who are descendants of pre Civil War slaves and those who are not? -
Putnam-denizen wrote: No, "Guest", you actually said "african-american is racist name too.", then you went on to say West Indians would be insulted to be called that, and Black (actually you used "black", but I've found it more respectfully to capitalize ethnic or racial categories) would be best. Whether your intention or not you sound pedantic, and not willing to be satisfied by the term anyone uses. And I know many a person of African descent who doesn't like the term "Black" for a whole host of reasons.
i am tired of your small minded ignorance. i am not the guest who said whitey and besides it was used in a quote from a blog they posted. reading is fundamental. i don't say whitey. i much prefer a word that begins with C that you would like even less. good day CAC.
There certainly is room for a discussion of what race means to people, why "White" people need to see themselves as something other than the default color of humanity. But is that really a conversation you are willing and able to have? Of course you are free to continue with your now quite extension torrent of citations, name-calling, finger-pointing, etc, but I don't think you will find many very engaged by it.
I know nothing about you (your age, your experience, etc), but you sound very young to me, and very willing to pigeonhole other people. Your presumption that others haven't thought about these issues or that they are not persons of goodwill (even if they use a term you don't like) is a barrier to communication. Perhaps what makes some of this difficult is you have taken a number of threads to an abstract (if strangely puerile) level. What was interesting about the "white people don't say hi" topic was it grounded a discussion of individual fears, expectations, and group stereotypes into the concrete.
But don't call anyone whitey again. It isn't nice. -
Anonymous wrote: i am tired of your small minded ignorance. i am not the guest who said whitey and besides it was used in a quote from a blog they posted. reading is fundamental. i don't say whitey. i much prefer a word that begins with C that you would like even less. good day CAC.
I don't get worked up when people call me whitey or cracker. I think it reflects _far_ more poorly on the person using those sorts of words. My sense of self doesn't come from others.
But I suppose it was polite of you not to say it. -
Anonymous wrote: i am tired of your small minded ignorance. i am not the guest who said whitey and besides it was used in a quote from a blog they posted. reading is fundamental.
...How the hell are we supposed to know there is more than one person using the name "Guest" in here? -
I ran into a woman the other day who was complaining about being called snowflake on the streets of Fort Green. She was damn annoying. So if you're looking to put whitey down don't forget the power of snowflake. Clorox works too.
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This is all great fun, but...
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Did Bucket List teach us nothing?
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Karka wrote: I ran into a woman the other day who was complaining about being called snowflake on the streets of Fort Green. She was damn annoying. So if you're looking to put whitey down don't forget the power of snowflake. Clorox works too.
pink toe, neanderthal, cave dweller, ofay and devil are excellent as well! -
Anonymous wrote: pink toe, neanderthal, cave dweller, ofay and devil are excellent as well!
Now _that's_ what I need! A belly rocker that says "White Devil."
Howdy, Stranger!
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