Preserving Bedford Stuyvesant
I have always loved the architecture of Bedford Stuyvesant. When I was a kid and came here to visit my grandaunt I thought the area was beautiful even with all the crime at the time. I have now been living in Bedford Stuyvesant for one year now and I was fortunate to find a house on a landmarked block in Stuyvesant Heights. I really love the area and I think architecturally it of one of the best places in New York City. With all that said I find that many people that own homes in Bedford Stuyvesant seem disrespect or not to care or about preserving the classic architecture of this great neighborhood. Maybe people don’t know what they are doing to there homes. Many homes have cheap home depot doors and painted brownstones that are loud and in color. I saw a house that was painted neon electric blue with lion statues in front like something out of Vegas. I have seen cheap windows that are the wrong size for the frames. But the thing that gets me more than anything is when people make illegal driveways and put cars in front of there house. Bedford Stuyvesant is urban not suburban there should be no driveways in front of grand rows of brownstones. Many people have no idea how much they are running the value of there property buy doing these types of things. Landmark seems to be taking a long time to get Bedford Village/Corners designated and extend the Stuyvesant Heights historic District. Is there anyone out there that is in favor for the neighborhood coming up with its own set of standers to preserve the beautiful architecture of Bedford Stuyvesant before it is two late. I am an architectural historian and I would love to get feed back on this topic. Many of the other brownstone areas in Brooklyn seem to now know the importance of preserving these great old houses I think it is time for Bedford Stuyvesant to step it up. I really think we have a great diamond here we just need to clean it off a little.
Comments
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New construction and cheap parts aside (windows should fit their frames) I like that there are homes that defy a traditional standard. Creative paint jobs and the Vegas house you described... well they may not be YOUR standard of beauty it is someone else's expression. Beauty is in the eye...
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New construction and cheap parts aside (windows should fit their frames) I like that there are homes that defy a traditional standard. Creative paint jobs and the Vegas house you described... well they may not be YOUR standard of beauty it is someone else's expression. Beauty is in the eye...
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You can be creative in other ways with you house but you do not have to disrespect the architecture. What is so appealing about a traditional brownstone is the architecture. The suburbs are the place where you can go all out and be as tacky as you want. Many of the homes on the east side of Manhattan people became too creative and now we forget that these blocks had rows and rows and beautiful brownstone. Today East Manhattan has these former homes with stoops that have been taken away facades that have no deal it has become really boring and bland today.
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You can be creative in other ways with you house but you do not have to disrespect the architecture. What is so appealing about a traditional brownstone is the architecture. The suburbs are the place where you can go all out and be as tacky as you want. Many of the homes on the east side of Manhattan people became too creative and now we forget that these blocks had rows and rows and beautiful brownstone. Today East Manhattan has these former homes with stoops that have been taken away facades that have no deal it has become really boring and bland today.
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I too love the architect and facade details of the Bedford Stuyvesant brownstones. The brownstone homes in Stuyvesant Heights are beautiful to me because their architecture design gives character to the homes and makes the Stuyvesant Heights neighborhood environment distinctive.
Vaguynny, I think some people have to be educated about the architecture of the Bedford Stuyvesant brownstones and taught how to preserve the brownstones and our neighborhood. -
I too love the architect and facade details of the Bedford Stuyvesant brownstones. The brownstone homes in Stuyvesant Heights are beautiful to me because their architecture design gives character to the homes and makes the Stuyvesant Heights neighborhood environment distinctive.
Vaguynny, I think some people have to be educated about the architecture of the Bedford Stuyvesant brownstones and taught how to preserve the brownstones and our neighborhood. -
RentMyGraden so many of the homes are beautiful and I think Stuyvesant Heights has some of the best brownstones in Brooklyn. I would like to see landmarks extend the historic boundaries of Stuyvesant Heights to go as far north to Madison. I think you are right about educating people on there Brownstones and not seeing it as just a old house. I want to hand out the book bricks and brownstones to every homeowner in the area...
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RentMyGraden so many of the homes are beautiful and I think Stuyvesant Heights has some of the best brownstones in Brooklyn. I would like to see landmarks extend the historic boundaries of Stuyvesant Heights to go as far north to Madison. I think you are right about educating people on there Brownstones and not seeing it as just a old house. I want to hand out the book bricks and brownstones to every homeowner in the area...
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...Okay -- the problem I see with y'all's plan is this.
Renovations of the sort you are crowing about cost money. Money that for many people needs to be saved for things like more prosaic upkeep of a house -- leaks, plumbing, etc. If you have an old brownstone that's about to fall apart, and you have a choice between the more expensive way of preserving it -- which may mean you go without oil heat that year -- or spending money on heating and getting aluminum siding, I'll bet you'll be thinking differently about the aesthetics of aluminim siding.
Saying that people need to be "educated" about this is a little condescending, frankly. Economics has a lot to do with the situation too. Believe me, I'm plenty educated about the importance of the architecure of this neighborhood, but if I only have enough money to fix the plumbing, then screw the architecture.
...Unless you are also proposing financial grants in addition to your "education"? Because that will do more, I warrant. -
...Okay -- the problem I see with y'all's plan is this.
Renovations of the sort you are crowing about cost money. Money that for many people needs to be saved for things like more prosaic upkeep of a house -- leaks, plumbing, etc. If you have an old brownstone that's about to fall apart, and you have a choice between the more expensive way of preserving it -- which may mean you go without oil heat that year -- or spending money on heating and getting aluminum siding, I'll bet you'll be thinking differently about the aesthetics of aluminim siding.
Saying that people need to be "educated" about this is a little condescending, frankly. Economics has a lot to do with the situation too. Believe me, I'm plenty educated about the importance of the architecure of this neighborhood, but if I only have enough money to fix the plumbing, then screw the architecture.
...Unless you are also proposing financial grants in addition to your "education"? Because that will do more, I warrant. -
I have to agree - especially when one's monicker seems to spell out Virginia Guy in New York one should try to walk in other people's shoes a bit before telling them to buy the next pair at Bloomingdale's.
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I have to agree - especially when one's monicker seems to spell out Virginia Guy in New York one should try to walk in other people's shoes a bit before telling them to buy the next pair at Bloomingdale's.
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It is all in your perspective on how you read... "preserving Bedford Stuyvesant" brownstones. I was referring to Vaguynny statement of preserving the classic beauty and the architecture value of Bedford Stuyvesant brownstone homes. I believe, some people need to be educated or given information on how to perserve and retain the value. I think it is important to educate the buyers of brownstones not to see it as another old house.
Over the last 10 years I have watch people buy brownstones, have money to renovate and gut the entire house-- take out the orginal beautiful ornate woodwork, solid wood doors, beautiful hardware, fireplaces, designed molding and replace the interior with less quality wood doors, molding and craftmanship. Flip the house or make it a 3 or 4 family rental property.
It doesn't cost money to retain the uniqueness and the detailed master craftmanship of Bedford Stuyvesant brownstones. Yes, it cost money to maintain and/or to renovate a brownstone or any home. But renovations should not destroy the architecture value of a home. -
It is all in your perspective on how you read... "preserving Bedford Stuyvesant" brownstones. I was referring to Vaguynny statement of preserving the classic beauty and the architecture value of Bedford Stuyvesant brownstone homes. I believe, some people need to be educated or given information on how to perserve and retain the value. I think it is important to educate the buyers of brownstones not to see it as another old house.
Over the last 10 years I have watch people buy brownstones, have money to renovate and gut the entire house-- take out the orginal beautiful ornate woodwork, solid wood doors, beautiful hardware, fireplaces, designed molding and replace the interior with less quality wood doors, molding and craftmanship. Flip the house or make it a 3 or 4 family rental property.
It doesn't cost money to retain the uniqueness and the detailed master craftmanship of Bedford Stuyvesant brownstones. Yes, it cost money to maintain and/or to renovate a brownstone or any home. But renovations should not destroy the architecture value of a home. -
RentMyGarden wrote: Over the last 10 years I have watch people buy brownstones, have money to renovate and gut the entire house-- take out the orginal beautiful ornate woodwork, solid wood doors, fireplaces, designed molding and replace the interior with less quality wood doors, molding and craftmanship. Flip the house or make it a 3 or 4 family rental property.
But I doubt that many of those people would see your advice as "educating", though. Either they don't have enough money to do a more effective renovation -- even the cost-effective ones you propose do cost money -- or they simply don't care, and it'd be like that adage about trying to teach a pig to sing. -
RentMyGarden wrote: Over the last 10 years I have watch people buy brownstones, have money to renovate and gut the entire house-- take out the orginal beautiful ornate woodwork, solid wood doors, fireplaces, designed molding and replace the interior with less quality wood doors, molding and craftmanship. Flip the house or make it a 3 or 4 family rental property.
But I doubt that many of those people would see your advice as "educating", though. Either they don't have enough money to do a more effective renovation -- even the cost-effective ones you propose do cost money -- or they simply don't care, and it'd be like that adage about trying to teach a pig to sing. -
I said nothing about the poor. I think that Putnam-denizen and queencallipygos are forgetting that the days of the poor Bedford Stuyvesant brownstone owner is becoming a thing of the past. Even then when the area was a poor working class neighborhood people did not try to modernize the façades of the homes, they simply left the houses alone. My grand aunt brought her brownstone on Macon in Bedford Stuyvesant in the mind 1930s and she was not rich. When she and her husband died in 2002 the house looked to same way as when they brought it 70 years earlier. Brooklyn has the more intact brownstones over Manhattan because the people in Brooklyn did not have big budgets to change there houses. The people that did not have money are the biggest preservationist. Many people that are altering there homes have money to do it right but rather look at the suburban way of doing things as a guide. City renovation and suburban/ country renovations are two different things.
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I said nothing about the poor. I think that Putnam-denizen and queencallipygos are forgetting that the days of the poor Bedford Stuyvesant brownstone owner is becoming a thing of the past. Even then when the area was a poor working class neighborhood people did not try to modernize the façades of the homes, they simply left the houses alone. My grand aunt brought her brownstone on Macon in Bedford Stuyvesant in the mind 1930s and she was not rich. When she and her husband died in 2002 the house looked to same way as when they brought it 70 years earlier. Brooklyn has the more intact brownstones over Manhattan because the people in Brooklyn did not have big budgets to change there houses. The people that did not have money are the biggest preservationist. Many people that are altering there homes have money to do it right but rather look at the suburban way of doing things as a guide. City renovation and suburban/ country renovations are two different things.
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I agree with all that (and bow to your longer term familiarity with the neighborhood). Perhaps I was just pointing out what is self-evident to you, and that is that people become a little touchy when others try to "educate" them about their private property. I am not sure I agree with you that the time of limited means owners is over in Bed-Stuy. Such changes are very slow, and many a long-term owner will be understandably loath to leave their home and community just to make a buck. And all you have to do is read some of the tiresome anti-gentrification tirades in this forum to realize that this can be a very loaded issue for many people.
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I agree with all that (and bow to your longer term familiarity with the neighborhood). Perhaps I was just pointing out what is self-evident to you, and that is that people become a little touchy when others try to "educate" them about their private property. I am not sure I agree with you that the time of limited means owners is over in Bed-Stuy. Such changes are very slow, and many a long-term owner will be understandably loath to leave their home and community just to make a buck. And all you have to do is read some of the tiresome anti-gentrification tirades in this forum to realize that this can be a very loaded issue for many people.
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Putnam-denizen I am not sure where I stand on gentrification. Sometime gentrification can be code word for move all the black people out. But if it is to transform a “run-down” or aging neighborhood into a more prosperous one, e.g. through investment in remodeling buildings or houses and better services I am all for that. I don’t want the area to become Park Slope with unfriendly former UWS people that do not say hello when you pass them on the sidewalk. But I do like what the homeowners in Park Slope did in preserving the architecture of neighborhood in the 60,70, and 1980s. If you take the snooty people out that area is great.
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Putnam-denizen I am not sure where I stand on gentrification. Sometime gentrification can be code word for move all the black people out. But if it is to transform a “run-down” or aging neighborhood into a more prosperous one, e.g. through investment in remodeling buildings or houses and better services I am all for that. I don’t want the area to become Park Slope with unfriendly former UWS people that do not say hello when you pass them on the sidewalk. But I do like what the homeowners in Park Slope did in preserving the architecture of neighborhood in the 60,70, and 1980s. If you take the snooty people out that area is great.
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And now we are back to who says hi to whom of the street
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And now we are back to who says hi to whom of the street
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I was taught as a child to be respectful, courteous and acknowledge others, especially when I passed them on the sidewalk. My family always said... hello... good morning, good afternoon or good evening to anyone they made eye contact with that was in speaking distance in front of their home or they passed on the sidewalk or in their daily travel. I speak and wave to people... children, teenagers, neighbors on my street and in my daily travel, too. The majority of the time people respond other times people look at me bewildered? Do I know her... why is she speaking to me? Why? It's simply called respect! The acknowledgement of another human being that shares the same air that I breathe.
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I was taught as a child to be respectful, courteous and acknowledge others, especially when I passed them on the sidewalk. My family always said... hello... good morning, good afternoon or good evening to anyone they made eye contact with that was in speaking distance in front of their home or they passed on the sidewalk or in their daily travel. I speak and wave to people... children, teenagers, neighbors on my street and in my daily travel, too. The majority of the time people respond other times people look at me bewildered? Do I know her... why is she speaking to me? Why? It's simply called respect! The acknowledgement of another human being that shares the same air that I breathe.
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I was being silly. I refer you to another thread on this forum about this very subject..
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I was being silly. I refer you to another thread on this forum about this very subject..
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Lol, back to this again. Rent My Garden said that waving and saying hello to everyone you pass by, whether you know them or not "is called respect", to paraphrase his/her post.
While I'm generally a friendly sort, and do say hello to neighbors and people I don't know, I think those who take umbrage at not being greeted by every passerby need to understand that others might not come from the same culture as you. I would be willing to bet my bottom dollar that for them to not say hello has absolutely nothing to do with whether they 'respect' you.
Some people might just be rude, but more often than not, your expectations, and often perceived offenses related to the lack of greetings from strangers, is based on cultural differences, not a lack of respect. If you approach your interactions with a broader view of the different ways in which people interact when they come from different cultures, it will certainly reduce some of the anger people seem to have over the "hello" issue.
But, then again, maybe you think I'm wrong and everyone who doesn't say hi to you or me is really 'disrespecting' (to use the made up verb of the 90s) us, and deserves our disdain. :roll: -
Lol, back to this again. Rent My Garden said that waving and saying hello to everyone you pass by, whether you know them or not "is called respect", to paraphrase his/her post.
While I'm generally a friendly sort, and do say hello to neighbors and people I don't know, I think those who take umbrage at not being greeted by every passerby need to understand that others might not come from the same culture as you. I would be willing to bet my bottom dollar that for them to not say hello has absolutely nothing to do with whether they 'respect' you.
Some people might just be rude, but more often than not, your expectations, and often perceived offenses related to the lack of greetings from strangers, is based on cultural differences, not a lack of respect. If you approach your interactions with a broader view of the different ways in which people interact when they come from different cultures, it will certainly reduce some of the anger people seem to have over the "hello" issue.
But, then again, maybe you think I'm wrong and everyone who doesn't say hi to you or me is really 'disrespecting' (to use the made up verb of the 90s) us, and deserves our disdain. :roll:
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