Since presidential candidates' spouses are now fair game...

daver wrote: [quote=queencallipygos]I was kidding. I just was tailoring my satire to the nastiness of the person to whom I was speaking, is all (frankly, I think someone responding to a complaint that "that's offensive" with, in essence, "oh, boo hoo, stop whining" is being nasty themselves).

I agree it's nasty. I also think the person to whom I'm speaking is being nasty. Since nastiness seems to be the only way she's capable of speaking, I'll speak her language.

Yah, no prob.

But, uh, what about all the _good_ things Hitler did?

But seriously, I don't want anyone who isn't perhaps as nuanced getting the wrong idea about Cindy McCain. Especially since I posted some nasty stuff too. But it was funny! She definitely has done a lot of good though. Her husband, well, not so much!

In all honesty, I think that the health problems of a candidates' wife have absolutely nothing to do with the candidate's record or suitability for office. But, I also think that the opninions expressed in a potential first lady's masters' thesis ALSO have nothing to do with her spouse's record. Nor do they have any bearing on whether or not that individual is or is not patriotic. Or, for that matter, I don't think an active president's sex life has any bearing on his suitability as a president either.

So that only leaves one thing that Michele Obama said -- a comment in passing that "this is the first time in my adult life that I've been proud of my country." Now, some, like eggcream, would turn that statement into anti-American sentiments. But I actually have also suffered a lessening of pride in this country since I've grown up. See, what eggcream is probably seeing as anti-Americanism, I see as realism -- if you keep telling yourself that everything's great as it is, then you can't see the problems that need fixing, and you can't see what to do to make the country even better.

In other words -- Michele Obama is probably like me: she doesn't want to burn the flag, but BOY does she think it needs washing. And if we didn't care about the country, we wouldn't be BOTHERING to make these statements, because if we really WERE anti-American we'd just say "fuck it, who cares?"

But that is a different reaction to the "rah rah" attitude that passes for patriotism in the minds of many, and that makes them accuse us of traitorism. It is love of the potential of my country that makes me so angry to be accused of traitorism, for if I honestly didn't care, would I be pointing out what needs fixing?

daver wrote: [quote=queencallipygos]So that only leaves one thing that Michele Obama said -- a comment in passing that "this is the first time in my adult life that I've been proud of my country." Now, some, like eggcream, would turn that statement into anti-American sentiments. But I actually have also suffered a lessening of pride in this country since I've grown up. See, what eggcream is probably seeing as anti-Americanism, I see as realism -- if you keep telling yourself that everything's great as it is, then you can't see the problems that need fixing, and you can't see what to do to make the country even better.

Well, and as Carnivore pointed out, McCain would appear to agree with her sentiment, seeing as that in response to the question of, "How can I be proud of my country?" McCain said, "I’ll admit to you that it’s tough, it’s tough in some respects."

Precisely. But in the eyes of some, even saying THAT is tanamount to traitorism. And that's an attitude that I find tiring at best, and dangerously naive at worst.

Moreover -- so, if McCain ALSO has said there are times he has difficulty being proud of the country, then why does he get a pass but Michelle Obama doesn't? Opportunistic hypocrisy is also unfair.

witch-king wrote: The 'my country right or wrong' attitude should be criticized. If this means one is a traitor (in the neo-conservative imagination), so be it.

A central tenet of neoconservatism is that the U.S. has pretty much never done anything wrong, especially in international and foreign policy areas. It seems that according to them, if the U.S. did it, then by definition it is Right and Just.