Name One Good Reason To Vote For McCain!
Comments
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Boygabriel wrote: If you think the swiftboating 527's are good for politics and good for the U.S., vote for McCain, who refuses to denounce them.
I kind of remember McCain denouncing not only the 527's but the GOP as well when they attacked Kerry in 2004. In fact I remember McCain defending Kerry more than Kerry himself. Unless I'm missing the point and you're talking about something completely different.
Obama on the other hand? He's asking (forcing) them not to spend money on his behalf. This is central to the reason he opted out of public financing.MoveOn, the advocacy group supporting Barack Obama, has decided to permanently shutter its 527 operation, partly in response to the Illinois Senator's insistence that such groups should not spend on his behalf during the general election...
Original link here. -
Idlewild wrote: I kind of remember McCain denouncing not only the 527's but the GOP as well when they attacked Kerry in 2004. In fact I remember McCain defending Kerry more than Kerry himself. Unless I'm missing the point and you're talking about something completely different.
As with almost everything else this election, McCain has completely abandoned past stances.
In this case he's been completely silent on 527's and seems perfectly content to let them run questionable ads in his name. -
It's a bit like Obama and free trade. There's no end to what compromises people will make if it will get them elected.
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doctorj wrote: Welcome back, escap.
Thanks!
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Subject: Re: Name One Good Reason To Vote For McCain!
MeredithB wrote: I can't think of one. Anyone?
You don't want to hurt McCain's feelings because if you did it would remind you of the time you made your grandfather cry. -
Vote for McCain if you think burning food to power cars at a time of record prices and international shortages is insane.
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queencallipygos wrote:
Indirectly it does; the most difficult use of fossil fuels to replace is in transport. For heating, you can use electricity generated from nuclear power, which means burning less fuel oil in homes, which can then be cracked and refined into gasoline. Gasoline can also be made from natural gas or coal when the price of oil is high enough to make it viable (as is currently the case) so going all-out nuclear instead of fossil fuels for electricity can ultimately keep the price of petroleum for transport down, along with total GHG emissions. There's a lag in the refining/cracking/reforming infrastructure at the moment, but it could be easily done with yesteryear's technology in the decade it takes to build the nukes and agree on binding CO2 caps/taxes. The sooner we start, the better, in my opinion.
See, that's where I thought the political shrewdness came in -- McCain's tying the two together may be the thing that makes the red-meat voter, to borrow your term, reconsider nuclear energy. The mounting unease about high oil prices makes people want to do SOMETHING, and McCain's offering an alternative right when people are really starting to get uneasy may make them cling to that because it sounds like a solution, and only after the fact will they realize that "...wait, but this doesn't have anything to do with gas prices. DAMN!' -
doctorj wrote: Vote for McCain if you think burning food to power cars at a time of record prices and international shortages is insane.
Good point. McCain seriously shot himself in the foot in 2000 in Iowa by opposing ethanol subsidies. He has consistently and continues to oppose them. One thing that article doesn't mention is that ethanol produces nearly twice the greenhouse gas emission of regular fuel. -
Boygabriel wrote: If you think the swiftboating 527's are good for politics and good for the U.S., vote for McCain, who refuses to denounce them.
Lol, you realize that MoveOn's 527 has been down since 2005, right? And that less than 10% of their cash came from it anyway? The move was largely symbolic. The labor unions and whatnot have their own 527s that are still running Obama ads.
Obama on the other hand? He's asking (forcing) them not to spend money on his behalf. This is central to the reason he opted out of public financing.MoveOn, the advocacy group supporting Barack Obama, has decided to permanently shutter its 527 operation, partly in response to the Illinois Senator's insistence that such groups should not spend on his behalf during the general election...
Original link here.
The 527s that are for Obama are raising more money than the ones that support McCain. Obama is making it into a political issue, to try and knee cap McCain a bit. Shrewd. He signed (literally) onto the public financing, and went back on it. McCain will be running his campaign on the $84.7M Fed funds that they agreed to, as has every candidate since it was put in in '76. Obama will likely to running $200M or more.
As far as speaking out about ads, McCain has his own set of fucked up morals and ethics, and he has definitely spoken out against what he considers unfair ads not only by 527s but also by the national RNC and in local elections this year.
Another tidbit though, while McCain vigorously denounced the Swiftboat group and supported Kerry as a war hero, even while Kerry was silent, he _has_ taken $60k from that very group this cycle.
On a side note, I think Kerry made a _huge_ mistake not addressing the Swiftboaters strongly when they rose in 2004. I can understand why he didn't take it seriously, and sure it is easy to have 20/20 hindsight, but shit, that was a bad miscalculation on his part. -
doctorj wrote: Indirectly it does; the most difficult use of fossil fuels to replace is in transport. For heating, you can use electricity generated from nuclear power, which means burning less fuel oil in homes, which can then be cracked and refined into gasoline. Gasoline can also be made from natural gas or coal when the price of oil is high enough to make it viable (as is currently the case) so going all-out nuclear instead of fossil fuels for electricity can ultimately keep the price of petroleum for transport down, along with total GHG emissions. There's a lag in the refining/cracking/reforming infrastructure at the moment, but it could be easily done with yesteryear's technology in the decade it takes to build the nukes and agree on binding CO2 caps/taxes. The sooner we start, the better, in my opinion.
I'm not a nuclear fan, but combined with an electric (non-hybrid) vehicle, nuclear technology can definitely have an impact on transportation-related carbon emissions and oil costs.
Here's one that will probably be out soon:
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/ -
It'll be a while before I can get to Europe in under 8 hours in an electric vehicle. Maybe in a hydrogen-powered rocket though; that'd be cool.
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Boygabriel wrote: As with almost everything else this election, McCain has completely abandoned past stances.
BTW, this is silly. McCain has been remarkably consistent on many issues. As has Obama. McCain has changed past stances on some issues. As has Obama.
As far as 527s, name me _one_ large 527 group supporting McCain. There aren't any, because he has been so vocal denouncing them. You can easily name half a dozen large 527s currently supporting Obama. -
daver wrote: he has definitely spoken out against what he considers unfair ads not only by 527s but also by the national RNC and in local elections this year.
key phrase being 'what he considers'. Congrats to McCain for having the amazing strength to stand up to people who insinuate that Barack Obama is some kind of black-supremacist terrorist.daver wrote: [quote=Boygabriel]As with almost everything else this election, McCain has completely abandoned past stances.
BTW, this is silly. McCain has been remarkably consistent on many issues. As has Obama. McCain has changed past stances on some issues. As has Obama.
On some issues sure, but on some pretty significant ones McCain has been surprisingly flip-floppy. Tax cuts. Torture. Off shore drilling. Government spying on Americans. Privatizing Social Security. Habeas friggin Corpus. Opening relations with Cuba. Opening relations with various Arab nations. Religious hatred of Fallwell & Co. Not one but two campaign finance bills that bear his name. Roe v. Wade. The list goes on.As far as 527s, name me _one_ large 527 group supporting McCain. There aren't any, because he has been so vocal denouncing them. You can easily name half a dozen large 527s currently supporting Obama.
I don't think the 527s on either side have really gotten going yet in this cycle but if you don't think the dirty, hateful 527s that Republicans have been so adept at running are going to be in full swing against a black liberal with a foreign-sounding name, I have a bridge to sell you.
Personally I think to date the Obama campaign has been more forceful and more coordinated in making their anti-527 policy clear. -
Boygabriel wrote: On some issues sure, but on some pretty significant ones McCain has been surprisingly flip-floppy. Tax cuts. Torture. Off shore drilling. Government spying on Americans. Privatizing Social Security. Habeas friggin Corpus. Opening relations with Cuba. Opening relations with various Arab nations. Religious hatred of Fallwell & Co. Not one but two campaign finance bills that bear his name. Roe v. Wade. The list goes on.
You could pull the same list on Obama, surprisingly on some of the same topics. Like Cuba, for instance. Special interest money, specifically from unions. Public campaign financing. Punishing businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Making pot legal. NAFTA. Troop withdrawal from Iraq. Retroactive immunity in FISA. Religious hatred of Rev. Wright et al.Boygabriel wrote: [quote=daver]As far as 527s, name me _one_ large 527 group supporting McCain. There aren't any, because he has been so vocal denouncing them. You can easily name half a dozen large 527s currently supporting Obama.
I don't think the 527s on either side have really gotten going yet in this cycle but if you don't think the dirty, hateful 527s that Republicans have been so adept at running are going to be in full swing against a black liberal with a foreign-sounding name, I have a bridge to sell you.
So you're for giving the big 527s that are currently supporting Obama a pass because you are certain that there will be big ones coming full swing supporting McCain in the future, and this is McCain's fault? Huh?Boygabriel wrote: Personally I think to date the Obama campaign has been more forceful and more coordinated in making their anti-527 policy clear.
What about the PAC supported BS ads that MoveOn has been running? So they are OK with those? McCain has been anti-527 against his own party before Obama was even a US Senator. Does it not occur to you that Obama only came out against 527s once he figured out that he didn't actually need them? Hmm. Interesting that. And on the flip, imagine that! When it didn't matter to him, McCain was virulently against them. Now that he is facing the monster Obama fundraising machine that backed out of public financing, his opposition is suddenly meeker. Amazing.
They are both rotten politicians trying to gain advantage in any way they can. -
Damn. Sometimes I really wish I could see these videos.
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daver wrote: [quote=Boygabriel]On some issues sure, but on some pretty significant ones McCain has been surprisingly flip-floppy. Tax cuts. Torture. Off shore drilling. Government spying on Americans. Privatizing Social Security. Habeas friggin Corpus. Opening relations with Cuba. Opening relations with various Arab nations. Religious hatred of Fallwell & Co. Not one but two campaign finance bills that bear his name. Roe v. Wade. The list goes on.
You could pull the same list on Obama, surprisingly on some of the same topics. Like Cuba, for instance. Special interest money, specifically from unions. Public campaign financing. Punishing businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Making pot legal. NAFTA. Troop withdrawal from Iraq. Retroactive immunity in FISA. Religious hatred of Rev. Wright et al.
I don't think it's a fair characterization to imply equality in the pandering level of these two nominees.
And to be honest, I don't actually care that much about whether candidates have flip flopped. I care more about what they're going to do in office (or while running for office). And in that regard, McCain isn't terribly anti-527, as some have claimed. -
Boygabriel wrote: [quote=daver][quote=Boygabriel]On some issues sure, but on some pretty significant ones McCain has been surprisingly flip-floppy. Tax cuts. Torture. Off shore drilling. Government spying on Americans. Privatizing Social Security. Habeas friggin Corpus. Opening relations with Cuba. Opening relations with various Arab nations. Religious hatred of Fallwell & Co. Not one but two campaign finance bills that bear his name. Roe v. Wade. The list goes on.
You could pull the same list on Obama, surprisingly on some of the same topics. Like Cuba, for instance. Special interest money, specifically from unions. Public campaign financing. Punishing businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Making pot legal. NAFTA. Troop withdrawal from Iraq. Retroactive immunity in FISA. Religious hatred of Rev. Wright et al.
I don't think it's a fair characterization to imply equality in the pandering level of these two nominees.
And to be honest, I don't actually care that much about whether candidates have flip flopped. I care more about what they're going to do in office (or while running for office). And in that regard, McCain isn't terribly anti-527, as some have claimed.
There is definitely some equality in there.
And goddamn, I'm gonna hunt you down with a hammer and nail your sorry ass down with the "And to be honest, I don't actually care that much about whether candidates have flip flopped" shit, because _you_ are the one that brought up the whole flip-flop thing in the first place. Waffles and Eggos aside.
And McCain has been historically VERY anti-527, and despite Obama suddenly jumping on the bandwagon when it suits his purposes, McCain's position on 527s hasn't changed, other than lowering than volume over prior years. -
daver wrote: There is definitely some equality in there.
:roll:daver wrote: And goddamn, I'm gonna hunt you down with a hammer and nail your sorry ass down with the "And to be honest, I don't actually care that much about whether candidates have flip flopped" shit, because _you_ are the one that brought up the whole flip-flop thing in the first place.
I mentioned it, you were the first one to make it the focus of a post. Hammer yourself on that one.daver wrote: Waffles and Eggos aside.
You and I simply see McCain in two different lights when it comes to 527's and the '08 campaign. We'll see how the next 4 months go. And McCain has been historically VERY anti-527, and despite Obama suddenly jumping on the bandwagon when it suits his purposes, McCain's position on 527s hasn't changed, other than lowering than volume over prior years. -
Lol. I think the 527s are bullshit. I think McCain will back off his previous stance and pretty much let any that want to support him run wild. I think Obama is denouncing them now because he has better options. I think Obama is going to snow the hell out of McCain in publicity/media blitz. I think Obama will be cool to attack ads, but I don't think he is going to step up much and tell MoveOn or the Unions to step off in some of the mischaracterizing ads they have already begun to run, or will run in the future. Like that one with the mom and son and hundred year war and whatever. And I think it is interesting that the only pro-Obama 527 shut down is one that wasn't functioning anyway, and even when it was it wasn't a large source of $.
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Vote McCain if you think 'Islamic Extremism’ is not only the biggest threat to our existence, but to our economy in particular.
Interview with Fortune here. -
Vote McCain if you've understood the difference between speculation and manipulation in commodities futures markets.
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