Hoping You'll Disappear
Comments
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Anonymous wrote: [quote=Putnam-denizen]
Why do you even think I or anyone else would want to have drinks with you?
Exactly. But go ahead, keep assuming the worst of everyone, "guest." I am sure it makes you a lovely person to be around. I hereby withdraw my previous offer to meet me for drinks and have a real conversation about the issues which are so important to both of us. You have proven yourself tedious and predictable, "guest." Begone - and take that little doggie with you too!
You be gone and go back to Minnesota or Connecticut or wherever it is you are from. YOU the tedious and predictable one. *yawn*
Guest, he was trying to be friendly, and you've rejected that. I thought that the thing you didn't like about the hipsters were how they were unfriendly?
And secondly, I'd personally much rather get a drink with someone who is trying to be friendly than I would with someone who thinks newcomers should "disappear." -
queencallipygos wrote:
I read as much as I could stomach of your stupid whiny blog and I don't want to have drinks with you neither.
Guest, he was trying to be friendly, and you've rejected that. I thought that the thing you didn't like about the hipsters were how they were unfriendly?
And secondly, I'd personally much rather get a drink with someone who is trying to be friendly than I would with someone who thinks newcomers should "disappear." -
Anonymous wrote: [quote=queencallipygos]
I read as much as I could stomach of your stupid whiny blog and I don't want to have drinks with you neither.
Guest, he was trying to be friendly, and you've rejected that. I thought that the thing you didn't like about the hipsters were how they were unfriendly?
And secondly, I'd personally much rather get a drink with someone who is trying to be friendly than I would with someone who thinks newcomers should "disappear."
So there! How old are you, any way? I am beginning to suspect you aren't old enough to have a drink with anyone... -
Anonymous wrote: [quote=queencallipygos]
I read as much as I could stomach of your stupid whiny blog and I don't want to have drinks with you neither.
Guest, he was trying to be friendly, and you've rejected that. I thought that the thing you didn't like about the hipsters were how they were unfriendly?
And secondly, I'd personally much rather get a drink with someone who is trying to be friendly than I would with someone who thinks newcomers should "disappear."
Okay! -
queencallipygos wrote: [quote=Anonymous][quote=Putnam-denizen]
You people did a hostile takeover of the neighborhood and many people were pushed out of their homes due to your greed. Nuff said.
So by your response I can assume that no, you aren't interested in having a respectful dialogue about these issues. Perhaps if you do, you can come down to one of the many spots in my part of the neighborhood (Grand 275, Outpost etc) where people of different backgrounds chat, confront, engage, disagree, laugh at each other, often on the very subjects which are dear to your heart (and dare I say it?) and mine as well. You will find that most people avoid calling each other names.
...Exactly which people are you referring to? Because if you're referring to African-Americans being displaced due to gentrifiers, I think the poor Irish who had been there before the African-Americans pushed THEM out would have something to say to that.
Uhh just a correction queen...no one FORCED anyone out. One group of ppl did not want to live amongst the other, when the incoming group began to be able to afford houses in the neighborhood...so they moved. -
bknest wrote: [quote=queencallipygos][quote=Anonymous]You people did a hostile takeover of the neighborhood and many people were pushed out of their homes due to your greed. Nuff said.
...Exactly which people are you referring to? Because if you're referring to African-Americans being displaced due to gentrifiers, I think the poor Irish who had been there before the African-Americans pushed THEM out would have something to say to that.
Uhh just a correction queen...no one FORCED anyone out. One group of ppl did not want to live amongst the other, when the incoming group began to be able to afford houses in the neighborhood...so they moved.
When the outgoing group is outgoing because they can't afford the shiny new gentrified rent/prices/property taxes, I believe an argument can be made that they were FORCED out. FWIW. -
bknest wrote: [quote=queencallipygos][quote=Anonymous][quote=Putnam-denizen]
You people did a hostile takeover of the neighborhood and many people were pushed out of their homes due to your greed. Nuff said.
So by your response I can assume that no, you aren't interested in having a respectful dialogue about these issues. Perhaps if you do, you can come down to one of the many spots in my part of the neighborhood (Grand 275, Outpost etc) where people of different backgrounds chat, confront, engage, disagree, laugh at each other, often on the very subjects which are dear to your heart (and dare I say it?) and mine as well. You will find that most people avoid calling each other names.
...Exactly which people are you referring to? Because if you're referring to African-Americans being displaced due to gentrifiers, I think the poor Irish who had been there before the African-Americans pushed THEM out would have something to say to that.
Uhh just a correction queen...no one FORCED anyone out. One group of ppl did not want to live amongst the other, when the incoming group began to be able to afford houses in the neighborhood...so they moved.
Shh -- I'm waiting to see if "Guest" figures that out himself! :-) -
daver wrote: [quote=bknest][quote=queencallipygos][quote=Anonymous]You people did a hostile takeover of the neighborhood and many people were pushed out of their homes due to your greed. Nuff said.
...Exactly which people are you referring to? Because if you're referring to African-Americans being displaced due to gentrifiers, I think the poor Irish who had been there before the African-Americans pushed THEM out would have something to say to that.
Uhh just a correction queen...no one FORCED anyone out. One group of ppl did not want to live amongst the other, when the incoming group began to be able to afford houses in the neighborhood...so they moved.
When the outgoing group is outgoing because they can't afford the shiny new gentrified rent/prices/property taxes, I believe an argument can be made that they were FORCED out. FWIW.
I was talking about the irish americans that queen claimed the african americans displaced. -
bknest wrote: [quote=daver][quote=bknest][quote=queencallipygos][quote=Anonymous]You people did a hostile takeover of the neighborhood and many people were pushed out of their homes due to your greed. Nuff said.
...Exactly which people are you referring to? Because if you're referring to African-Americans being displaced due to gentrifiers, I think the poor Irish who had been there before the African-Americans pushed THEM out would have something to say to that.
Uhh just a correction queen...no one FORCED anyone out. One group of ppl did not want to live amongst the other, when the incoming group began to be able to afford houses in the neighborhood...so they moved.
When the outgoing group is outgoing because they can't afford the shiny new gentrified rent/prices/property taxes, I believe an argument can be made that they were FORCED out. FWIW.
I was talking about the irish americans that queen claimed the african americans displaced.
Well, in that case I would offer that what happened was a bit more complicated than one group not wanting to live amongst the other, although that certainly played a role. -
daver wrote: [quote=bknest][quote=daver][quote=bknest][quote=queencallipygos][quote=Anonymous]You people did a hostile takeover of the neighborhood and many people were pushed out of their homes due to your greed. Nuff said.
...Exactly which people are you referring to? Because if you're referring to African-Americans being displaced due to gentrifiers, I think the poor Irish who had been there before the African-Americans pushed THEM out would have something to say to that.
Uhh just a correction queen...no one FORCED anyone out. One group of ppl did not want to live amongst the other, when the incoming group began to be able to afford houses in the neighborhood...so they moved.
When the outgoing group is outgoing because they can't afford the shiny new gentrified rent/prices/property taxes, I believe an argument can be made that they were FORCED out. FWIW.
I was talking about the irish americans that queen claimed the african americans displaced.
Well, in that case I would offer that what happened was a bit more complicated than one group not wanting to live amongst the other, although that certainly played a role.
A BIG role...the same scenario played out in SEVERAL neighborhoods in NYC...its called WHITE FLIGHT! And in this one my family lived through it. -
bknest wrote: A BIG role...the same scenario played out in SEVERAL neighborhoods in NYC. And in this one my family lived through it.
Cool, perhaps you can offer me some insight then
! My book learnin' said that there was a big downtown in NYC in general at the time in question. Increasing crime, places of employment closing, transportation to Manhattan disappearing, etc. The inference being that these factors are what directly led to the people who had been living there picking up and leaving, low income housing being built in the area, and so forth. Which would make sense, the people who lived there left when their jobs did, and so for the people that moved in there wasn't employment, which would then lead to the area getting worse and worse.
Or was your experience more like black people moved in and white people said screw that and left. Inquiring minds want to know. -
bknest wrote:
Thank you nest. I hope "queen" figures this out for herself.
A BIG role...the same scenario played out in SEVERAL neighborhoods in NYC...its called WHITE FLIGHT! And in this one my family lived through it. -
Listen NYC like many urban centers was not immune to white flight. It's well documented and what's not documented is passed on through oral history.
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bknest wrote: Listen NYC like many urban centers was not immune to white flight. It's well documented and what's not documented is passed on through oral history.
What is documented about white flight is that it had a lot of factors other than not wanting to live around black people, if that is the point you are trying to make. If it isn't, then, uh, fergit it. -
daver wrote:
If is well known that as soon as a black family comes on the block in a white neighborhood for sale signs quickly start to go up. Your denial is appalling yet sadly not surprising.
What is documented about white flight is that it had a lot of factors other than not wanting to live around black people, if that is the point you are trying to make. If it isn't, then, uh, fergit it. -
Anonymous wrote: If is well known that as soon as a black family comes on the block in a white neighborhood for sale signs quickly start to go up.
....Where are you writing from, 1973? -
Anonymous wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight
Yes, exactly, that is what I'm talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_decay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_sensitivityA variety of factors during this period allowed for the explosive growth of suburbs and demographic change in cities, including the creation of high-speed highways and suburban parkways, which greatly reduced the travel time between suburbs and downtowns and bypassed some city neighborhoods.
High minority crime rates, economic and social pressure as well as the popularity of the automobile all contributed to white flight. Whites also left the city because they thought that suburban communities, with their new housing stock and open spaces, were more desirable places to live,
Due to the nature of American local governmental structure, white flight enabled people who moved into the suburbs to create new municipalities outside the jurisdiction of the original city, without any legacy costs of maintaining existing infrastructure. However, this was balanced by the need to enhance the suburban infrastructure to support the larger immigrant population.
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Anonymous wrote: [quote=daver]
If is well known that as soon as a black family comes on the block in a white neighborhood for sale signs quickly start to go up. Your denial is appalling yet sadly not surprising.
What is documented about white flight is that it had a lot of factors other than not wanting to live around black people, if that is the point you are trying to make. If it isn't, then, uh, fergit it.
Yah, that was true in the 70s. Strangely enough, many of the building around me are owned by blacks that are selling to whites. *shrug* -
daver wrote:
It all starts with whites not wanting to live around Blacks. Then the whole system works with them. How do you explain once a neighborhood becomes primarily Black it gets blocked from people getting mortgages and loans? Explain that. Explain why as soon as Black people start to move in the suburbs the whites flee back to the city or wherever else.A variety of factors during this period allowed for the explosive growth of suburbs and demographic change in cities, including the creation of high-speed highways and suburban parkways, which greatly reduced the travel time between suburbs and downtowns and bypassed some city neighborhoods.
High minority crime rates, economic and social pressure as well as the popularity of the automobile all contributed to white flight. Whites also left the city because they thought that suburban communities, with their new housing stock and open spaces, were more desirable places to live,
Due to the nature of American local governmental structure, white flight enabled people who moved into the suburbs to create new municipalities outside the jurisdiction of the original city, without any legacy costs of maintaining existing infrastructure. However, this was balanced by the need to enhance the suburban infrastructure to support the larger immigrant population.
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White Flight is the evolution of segregationism in the face of the Civil Rights Movement. Its also the start of political conservatism in the US. Don't kid yourself its about jobs.
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Anonymous wrote: It all starts with whites not wanting to live around Blacks. Then the whole system works with them. How do you explain once a neighborhood becomes primarily Black it gets blocked from people getting mortgages and loans? Explain that. Explain why as soon as Black people start to move in the suburbs the whites flee back to the city or wherever else.
I think a lot of things may have been true in the past that aren't true now. Except that I didn't live then, so...
My experience has been that the mortgage and loan situation has FAR more to do with socioeconomic status than ethnic status. Which isn't to say that many black people are poor, and thus bear the brunt of it. But as someone that has worked in IT marketing pulling databases for these companies to market ScrewYa, er, subprime loans, I can say that ethnicity is NOT one of the things that we typically selected on, at least for the banks I worked with.
I grew up in AZ, there weren't a lot of black people there. In my early years I lived in a fully mixed neighborhood where no one cared. When we moved a bit farther out to get away from crime, there were a few black people there. No one cared.
And I really don't think white people are fleeing the suburbs because black people are moving there. I don't know about the suburbs around NYC from personal experience, because I haven't lived there. I know that there people of different ethnicities living in my suburban area in AZ and it really didn't matter. It was a socioeconomic thing. -
look up "non urban dictates"
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Karka wrote: White Flight is the evolution of segregationism in the face of the Civil Rights Movement. Its also the start of political conservatism in the US. Don't kid yourself its about jobs.
Like I said. I wasn't there as some here purport to be. So's I'm asking. My understanding is in no way that it was about jobs, but rather that it wasn't ONLY about blacks. In that there were multiple factors.
I'm interested in a historical sense, and I do find it a bit hysterical that some seem to think the racial environment of the time of white flight exists today. -
Anonymous wrote: look up "non urban dictates"
Strangely enough, marketing isn't really racist, it is profit driven. As a result, I think you'll find that the NUD sort of thing has been on the outs for awhile. Businesses recognize buying power. Marketing products to ethnic minorities, specifically blacks and hispanics (separately) is now big business and a hot topic at marketing conventions. For better or worse. -
daver wrote: [quote=Anonymous]look up "non urban dictates"
Strangely enough, marketing isn't really racist, it is profit driven. As a result, I think you'll find that the NUD sort of thing has been on the outs for awhile. Businesses recognize buying power. Marketing products to ethnic minorities, specifically blacks and hispanics (separately) is now big business and a hot topic at marketing conventions. For better or worse.
Not true. I lived in Fort Greene when most corporate stores/businesses services would not deal with the area. Nobody would deliver. Taxis would not take you there. As soon enough white people came, *poof* like magic its all there. Besides that, corporate stores who do in fact have branches in the "hood" sell inferior quality goods at highly escalated prices as compared to their branches in white neighborhoods. Macys is one very good example of such and there are many others. -
Anonymous wrote: [quote=daver][quote=Anonymous]look up "non urban dictates"
Strangely enough, marketing isn't really racist, it is profit driven. As a result, I think you'll find that the NUD sort of thing has been on the outs for awhile. Businesses recognize buying power. Marketing products to ethnic minorities, specifically blacks and hispanics (separately) is now big business and a hot topic at marketing conventions. For better or worse.
Not true. I lived in Fort Greene when most corporate stores/businesses services would not deal with the area. Nobody would deliver. Taxis would not take you there. As soon enough white people came, *poof* like magic its all there. Besides that, corporate stores who do in fact have branches in the "hood" sell inferior quality goods at highly escalated prices as compared to their branches in white neighborhoods. Macys is one very good example of such and there are many others.
It is true. Just because it isn't true in every instance of every business of every merchant in every neighborhood doesn't make it not true. Things are changing quick as companies realize the buying power of minorities, and it has been sweeping marketing for a while now. Search on "ethnic marketing" or "multicultural marketing".Virtually every major company in the U.S. wants to sell their products and services to Ethnic minorities, including African, Hispanic (Latino), and Asian Americans. Why? They recognize the need for ethnic marketing because people of color are a huge source of potential business. According to the Selig Center for Economic Growth, African, Hispanic (Latino), and Asian Americans spent $1.6 trillion in 2003. This is almost triple what it was in 1990.
http://www.ethnicmajority.com/CONSUMER_HOME.HTM -
"The Samuel Vimes 'Boots' Theory Of Socio-Economic Injustice" aka the ghetto tax.
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Nobody cares to see that is not just a black and a white thing. History tells you that people dont want to live with people who dont share similar values. Like for example when the Italians, the Irish and the Jews started to settle in areas close to the 'White' protestants (English and Germans?), then the Protestants just move away aswell!
Blacks, Hispanics, Asians and Russians are also moving or moved to areas where some people decided to leave aswell (Jews, Italians and Irish?). Remember that Washington Heights had a majority of Blacks and Irish and Jews, but now it is all Dominican. Flushing was White and then it became Chinese. Etc. -
Anonymous wrote: [quote=daver]
It all starts with whites not wanting to live around Blacks. Then the whole system works with them. How do you explain once a neighborhood becomes primarily Black it gets blocked from people getting mortgages and loans? Explain that. Explain why as soon as Black people start to move in the suburbs the whites flee back to the city or wherever else.A variety of factors during this period allowed for the explosive growth of suburbs and demographic change in cities, including the creation of high-speed highways and suburban parkways, which greatly reduced the travel time between suburbs and downtowns and bypassed some city neighborhoods.
High minority crime rates, economic and social pressure as well as the popularity of the automobile all contributed to white flight. Whites also left the city because they thought that suburban communities, with their new housing stock and open spaces, were more desirable places to live,
Due to the nature of American local governmental structure, white flight enabled people who moved into the suburbs to create new municipalities outside the jurisdiction of the original city, without any legacy costs of maintaining existing infrastructure. However, this was balanced by the need to enhance the suburban infrastructure to support the larger immigrant population.
Explain how you don't answer anyone else's question. Explain why you cite statistics which make no sense. Explain how you describe societal conditions of thirty years ago as tho they were today. Explain how you advance any conversation on this site.
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