Open Container violation in Prospect Park
So, eight of us were having a very quiet picnic in Prospect Park today near the Picnic House. We had one bottle of wine with us, along with a lot of food and other beverages.
A group of 4 cops (3 in those tiny cop vehicles and 1 on a segway) pulled up at the Picnic House about 30 feet away from us. After 20 minutes, the cops approached us and demanded IDs without saying why. I gave them mine, and the cop sarcastically said, "You're an organ donor. I feel safer now." I have no idea what his point was.
He said we were being fined for having an "open container." But then later said it was because we had glass.
The cops took all of our IDs and gave each one of us a $25 ticket regardless of whether we were drinking, and each ticket said, "Alcohol in the park." I asked him to clarify whether the problem was having an open container or having alcohol, and he claimed he was intentionally "vague" on the ticket.
After waiting 15 minutes for the tickets, this particular cop also claimed that he wasn't going to give us tickets until one of us started to balk, but that's crap because they were writing up the tickets before my friend went to voice her discontent. It was clear to me that cops can lie about anything and get away with it. They were definitely jerking us around.
We weren't really thinking about having the wine with us, and I now know that having alcohol in the park is forbidden. But I felt we were particularly singled out, especially since there were numerous and obvious instances of people on either side of us who had cases of beer and another man who was walking around with a bottle in hand. The jerk cop claimed they were going to bust others, and said, "you can follow us around" but they took off and left everyone else with booze alone.
My question: has this happened to any of you? Is it worth making the court appearance for? Is this the sort of thing that goes on one's record? And how long does that last?
Has this been happening with greater frequency in Prospect Park?
Is there anything a person can do about this?
Thanks.
A group of 4 cops (3 in those tiny cop vehicles and 1 on a segway) pulled up at the Picnic House about 30 feet away from us. After 20 minutes, the cops approached us and demanded IDs without saying why. I gave them mine, and the cop sarcastically said, "You're an organ donor. I feel safer now." I have no idea what his point was.
He said we were being fined for having an "open container." But then later said it was because we had glass.
The cops took all of our IDs and gave each one of us a $25 ticket regardless of whether we were drinking, and each ticket said, "Alcohol in the park." I asked him to clarify whether the problem was having an open container or having alcohol, and he claimed he was intentionally "vague" on the ticket.
After waiting 15 minutes for the tickets, this particular cop also claimed that he wasn't going to give us tickets until one of us started to balk, but that's crap because they were writing up the tickets before my friend went to voice her discontent. It was clear to me that cops can lie about anything and get away with it. They were definitely jerking us around.
We weren't really thinking about having the wine with us, and I now know that having alcohol in the park is forbidden. But I felt we were particularly singled out, especially since there were numerous and obvious instances of people on either side of us who had cases of beer and another man who was walking around with a bottle in hand. The jerk cop claimed they were going to bust others, and said, "you can follow us around" but they took off and left everyone else with booze alone.
My question: has this happened to any of you? Is it worth making the court appearance for? Is this the sort of thing that goes on one's record? And how long does that last?
Has this been happening with greater frequency in Prospect Park?
Is there anything a person can do about this?
Thanks.
Comments
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It's about time they started issuing tickets indiscriminately, especially after Marty 'Gentrification Cheerleader' Markowitz got on stage a couple of weeks ago and encouraged people to break the law and drink wine during the Metropolitan Opera in the ball fields.
In New York City it is illegal to drink alcohol in most public areas, however for some reason many people seem to think 'wine' should not fall under the law.
Not to mention, isn't a "glass" an "open container"? I fail to see how the cop was being inconsistent there... -
yes. have a picnic again tomorrow , with wine, (assuming you are 21 or older.)
it's a petty public nuisance law. it's not a crime. you can plead guilty by mail within 10 days and send in the $25 fine. if you don't do that you have to appear. if you don't appear a criminal warrant will be issued.
http://www.courts.state.ny.us/courts/nyc/criminal/specialprojects.shtml#pleabymail
If you don't feel like paying the $25 show up to court and contest it. I seriously doubt these cops would show up to give their testimony.
if you are all responsible adults calmly and respectfully enjoying a bottle of wine the cops should step the hell off and you should not talk to them.
http://www.aclu.org/kyr/kyr_english_1.pdf
http://www.nyclu.org/files/bustcard.pdf -
I think I know someone at that same picnic since he called me to tell me about it today.
I am super bummed for you guys. It is a really lame offense but it is an offense, none the less. If you have the time, go to court and wait it out. The cops are unlikely to show. If they were aggressive in anyway or unprofessional, ask for a name and badge number and report them. -
Subject: Re: "Open Container" violation in Prospect Park
He was doing you a favor by being "intentionally "vague" on the ticket. "
If you plead not guilty the judge will see this "vagueness" as a reason to dismiss
I have been there -
§ 10-125 Consumption of alcohol on streets prohibited. a. Definitions.
This is one of those quality of life laws that are selectively enforced and abused. If you have ever noticed in your travels through the 'hood, police vans sitting off corners with old geezers within. Those cats are probably going to get locked up for "open containers". I have witnessed friends get arrested for open container violations for sitting within the confines of thier private property. The police stating the violation based on "plain sight". (which is bogus)
Whenever used in this section, the following terms are defined as
follows:
1. Alcoholic beverage. Any liquid intended for human consumption
containing more than one-half of one percent (.005) of alcohol by
volume.
2. Public place. A place to which the public or a substantial group of
persons has access including, but not limited to, any highway, street,
road, sidewalk, parking area, shopping area, place of amusement,
playground, park or beach located within the city except that the
definition of a public place shall not include those premises duly
licensed for the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages on the
premises or within their own private property. Such public place shall
also include the interior of any stationary motor vehicle which is on
any highway, street, road, parking area, shopping area, playground, park
or beach located within the city.
b. No person shall drink or consume an alcoholic beverage, or possess,
with intent to drink or consume, an open container containing an
alcoholic beverage in any public place except at a block party, feast or
similar function for which a permit has been obtained.
c. Possession of an open container containing an alcoholic beverage by
any person shall create a rebuttable presumption that such person did
intend to consume the contents thereof in violation of this section.
d. Nothing in this section shall be deemed to prohibit the consumption
of an alcoholic beverage in any duly licensed establishment whose
certificate of occupancy extends upon a street.
e. Any person who shall be found to have violated any of the
provisions of this section shall be punished by a fine of not more than
twenty-five dollars ($25) or imprisonment of up to five (5) days, or
both, or pursuant to the provisions of the family court act of the state
of New York where applicable.
So if indeed, you did have an open container of alcohol and got popped, be thankful they didn't drag you down and run you through the system.
Check your ticket very carefully for errors. The simplest error can get them thrown out. If there are enough of you and can get witnesses, fight it based upon being singled out in the crowd by the cops (good luck on that, but it is possible). Write everything down on paper and date it, have all of your friends do the same for your presentation to the court. -
also, read this thread from google answers, lots of interesting info and advice on how to beat the ticket. the officer must include certain prima facie evidence. if the ticket lacks certain specifics it can be dismissed.
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=117360
The guys you see being hauled into a police van are probably repeat offenders. the odds of you getting cuffed and arrested for having an open container in the park, provided you are not an a-hole to the cop, is about as likely as being arrested for getting an ASP ticket. -
JMO, but, it's just a $25 ticket, and, you were in the wrong with having an open alcohol bottle in the park. Why make such a fuss over it? If it were me, I would just pay it and be glad it wasn't a bigger fine!
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Subject: Re: "Open Container" violation in Prospect Park
botgirl wrote: "You're an organ donor. I feel safer now." I have no idea what his point was.
I think that's an alcoholic liver joke. -
LongTimeSloper wrote: JMO, but, it's just a $25 ticket, and, you were in the wrong with having an open alcohol bottle in the park. Why make such a fuss over it? If it were me, I would just pay it and be glad it wasn't a bigger fine!
I agree. This is such a clear case that you were in the wrong. Even if you argue that another 100 people in the park yesterday were picnicing and they too had an open bottle so what? Yesterday you were the one who got caught. -
Last time I got a (double) parking ticket, I didn't even say a word. Why get myself in deeper? Of course I was cursing and yelling once I drove away with a $115.00 !@?!! ticket in hand. Police are dangerous and often racist; marijuana should be legal, common sense should prevail; power corrupts, etc...but I'm not getting into it with some ticking time bomb! It takes a learned discipline NOT to fight back. Save it for the court appearance, like everyone says. I too, have gotten out of tickets that way.
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LongTimeSloper wrote: JMO, but, it's just a $25 ticket, and, you were in the wrong with having an open alcohol bottle in the park. Why make such a fuss over it? If it were me, I would just pay it and be glad it wasn't a bigger fine!
seconded. sucks, but you knowingly broke a law. going to court will just cost you time - wont change the law or affect those cops bad attitudes. only productive things to do are 1) file a complaint if the cops actually did/said anything improper, 2) start a petition to change the law. -
Double parking = deserves ticket. Hate you guys. You slow everyone down and illegally stand in bike lanes. $115 isn't enough for double parkers.
As for the park incident, get boxed wine and use opaque plastic cups. I can't stress this enough, people. On the other hand, sounds like you have a good chance of getting out of it if you contest, seeing as how it is so "intentionally vague." -
In the future put your wine in a soda bottle
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Yeah, that is lame. I can't believe this hasnt happened to me yet. but if i got busted was issued a 25$ ticket, I would just pay up unless the cops were totally egregious in how they handled you, but that doesn't seem to be the case, based on the story.
Unfortunately, the "they were doing it too!!" argument isn't going to help your case much. -
I agree that this totally sucks. Pay it, move on.
I just don't get it why they decide to tkt a select few. I saw more open flames and grills on the grass and under trees, beer cans, people on bicycles on the side walk and dogs off their leashes and cars double parked all over to unload but believe it or not, you and one dog person are the only 2 tkts I heard about. -
sucks you got caught, but yeah, put all your drinks in plastic containers,water bottles,etc and you'll never really have a problem. If a cop sees a wine bottle, he's going to have to do something about it especially if he's with other cops, and he'll give you a ticket just because you actually made him do work. we bring the equivalent of 2 bottles of red wine in the medium size poland spring bottle and drink it in plain sight in plastic stemless wine glasses and never have a problem. Actually the last time I spent the night mixing ice, a bottle of water(belvedere) and lime seltzer in cups for people at a picnic right infront of cop and had no problem.
-
just me wrote: I agree that this totally sucks. Pay it, move on.
Pay it and move on... I don't agree. Laws are made to be exercised with common sense. If one is in a public setting where the majority is doing the same un-obstructed, not creating a public hazard, why should you then be singled out? The police do not have the right to selectively enforce the law. Not contesting the smallest infraction, where one feels they are right, only sends the message that such injustices will be tolerated.
I just don't get it why they decide to tkt a select few. I saw more open flames and grills on the grass and under trees, beer cans, people on bicycles on the side walk and dogs off their leashes and cars double parked all over to unload but believe it or not, you and one dog person are the only 2 tkts I heard about.
The police select their "few" much in the same way a predator would. Those who they feel are the least likely to offer resistance.
As far as open flames and grills, on the 4th, the police allowed no one to BBQ in Brower Park. -
I'm thinking I'll just pay the fine and be done with it. It's true--we broke "the law," but it's all very annoying, especially considering the fact that SO MANY other people were visibly doing the same thing.
And the one cop was a jerk, but didn't say anything so egregious that we could really make a case against him.
And I'm very certain they busted us because we were definitely the least likely to offer resistance. So lame.
Next time, sippy cups full of gin for sure! -
if you have the time, fight. these cops sound like asshats that enjoy wasting the city's time. yes, you broke the law. no need to mention that. mention that the cop was intentionally vague on the ticket. mention that the cop was ignoring people openly consuming alcohol around you. and then STFU. in front of a judge, btw.
and since when can the PD afford a fucking segway? for chrissakes, walk! -
Wow. I never knew this was enforced. Thought it was like jaywalking. Alcohol is always at the beach and park....with cops around. Interesting...
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Total fucking bullshit, excuse my french. I'm glad we found osama bin laden and have universal health care, so now we can start worrying about people sipping bordeaux in Prospect Park
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botgirl wrote: I'm thinking I'll just pay the fine and be done with it. It's true--we broke "the law," but it's all very annoying, especially considering the fact that SO MANY other people were visibly doing the same thing.
If you have the time to appear in court, do it. The cop will most likely not show up to testify for such a petty infraction and certain errors on the ticket can result in dismissal, kind of like with a parking ticket. Read this thread and the court case cited in the conversation http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=117360
And the one cop was a jerk, but didn't say anything so egregious that we could really make a case against him.
And I'm very certain they busted us because we were definitely the least likely to offer resistance. So lame.
Next time, sippy cups full of gin for sure!
Don't say, "yea i broke the law but other people were doing it too." You are pleading "Not Guilty", not "Guilty, but with a good reason" -
alafairnadia wrote: and since when can the PD afford a fucking segway? for chrissakes, walk!
Last year I spent several weekends at Coney Island. I noticed MANY cops on Segways, like half a dozen would pass by in the course of a couple hours on the boardwalk. Oh, and fancy quads. Which I figured would be for beach use, except that they seemed to use trucks on the beach, and the quads on the boardwalk. Go figure.
And of course you have the guys openly selling cold beer on the beach. To, uh, reference the topic of this post. I never saw anyone busted for that, which amazed me the first few times, but now I'm just used to it. The beer guys were out in force on the 4th, for what it is worth. The illegally selling ones, I mean, of course. Not the cops. Well, they were out in force too, but not in order to bust the illegally beer selling guys. The cops were mostly just standing around. I liked the ones on the tops of the buildings around Nathan's. I told the kids that they were snipers, waiting to take out anybody who tried to rush the stage and get free hot dogs. They didn't believe me because they couldn't see any rifles. I told them that they obviously kept them on the ground, so as not to induce panic.
Anyhow, I'm sure the cops' presence was effective at preventing incidents. Like when they park empty cop cars on highways, that has been proven to reduce speeding. For awhile. Until the locals get used to it. Then it ceases to be effective.
Anyway. -
the interesting thing about segways is that they are illegal according to the DMV. They are motorized, so they are illegal on sidewalks, but they are not licensed and do not have the required safety features to be allowed on roadways.
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You were in the wrong, period. Pay the measly $25.00 and be done with it. How much sense does it make to take a day off of work to fight a 25.00 ticket for god's sake.
Amazing how you go from the OP being in the wrong to cops are dangerous and mostly racist, cops should fucking walk and god forbid use a segway to universal health care and bin laden. No wonder some of these threads are laughed at. -
vidro3 wrote: [quote=botgirl]I'm thinking I'll just pay the fine and be done with it. It's true--we broke "the law," but it's all very annoying, especially considering the fact that SO MANY other people were visibly doing the same thing.
If you have the time to appear in court, do it. The cop will most likely not show up to testify for such a petty infraction and certain errors on the ticket can result in dismissal, kind of like with a parking ticket. Read this thread and the court case cited in the conversation http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=117360
And the one cop was a jerk, but didn't say anything so egregious that we could really make a case against him.
And I'm very certain they busted us because we were definitely the least likely to offer resistance. So lame.
Next time, sippy cups full of gin for sure!
Don't say, "yea i broke the law but other people were doing it too." You are pleading "Not Guilty", not "Guilty, but with a good reason"
I must have missed something, why would she plead not guilty? She was guilty. -
Would it be acceptable for a minority to drink a 40 in the park? Be glad you only got a ticket.
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LongTimeSloper wrote: [quote=vidro3]If you have the time to appear in court, do it. The cop will most likely not show up to testify for such a petty infraction and certain errors on the ticket can result in dismissal, kind of like with a parking ticket. Read this thread and the court case cited in the conversation http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=117360
I must have missed something, why would she plead not guilty? She was guilty.
Don't say, "yea i broke the law but other people were doing it too." You are pleading "Not Guilty", not "Guilty, but with a good reason"
The ticket isn't valid if it isn't written correctly, which it sounds like there is a good chance it isn't. I suppose that she could go ahead and say, "Well, I know what they _meant_ to write," and pay it anyway. But she can also dispute it and get it dismissed if the judge agrees that it is invalid. *shrug* -
Retag wrote: Would it be acceptable for a minority to drink a 40 in the park? Be glad you only got a ticket.
How do know she isn't a minority? And what is it that you think minorities get instead of a ticket for drinking 40s in the park?
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