Obama in the NYT: My Plan For Iraq
From Today's NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/opinion/14obama.html?ei=5087&em=&en=1e19335be0e1e1c9&ex=1216180800&pagewanted=print
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/opinion/14obama.html?ei=5087&em=&en=1e19335be0e1e1c9&ex=1216180800&pagewanted=print
July 14, 2008
Op-Ed Contributor
My Plan for Iraq
By BARACK OBAMA
CHICAGO — The call by Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki for a timetable for the removal of American troops from Iraq presents an enormous opportunity. We should seize this moment to begin the phased redeployment of combat troops that I have long advocated, and that is needed for long-term success in Iraq and the security interests of the United States.
The differences on Iraq in this campaign are deep. Unlike Senator John McCain, I opposed the war in Iraq before it began, and would end it as president. I believed it was a grave mistake to allow ourselves to be distracted from the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban by invading a country that posed no imminent threat and had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Since then, more than 4,000 Americans have died and we have spent nearly $1 trillion. Our military is overstretched. Nearly every threat we face — from Afghanistan to Al Qaeda to Iran — has grown.
In the 18 months since President Bush announced the surge, our troops have performed heroically in bringing down the level of violence. New tactics have protected the Iraqi population, and the Sunni tribes have rejected Al Qaeda — greatly weakening its effectiveness.
But the same factors that led me to oppose the surge still hold true. The strain on our military has grown, the situation in Afghanistan has deteriorated and we’ve spent nearly $200 billion more in Iraq than we had budgeted. Iraq’s leaders have failed to invest tens of billions of dollars in oil revenues in rebuilding their own country, and they have not reached the political accommodation that was the stated purpose of the surge.
The good news is that Iraq’s leaders want to take responsibility for their country by negotiating a timetable for the removal of American troops. Meanwhile, Lt. Gen. James Dubik, the American officer in charge of training Iraq’s security forces, estimates that the Iraqi Army and police will be ready to assume responsibility for security in 2009.
Only by redeploying our troops can we press the Iraqis to reach comprehensive political accommodation and achieve a successful transition to Iraqis’ taking responsibility for the security and stability of their country. Instead of seizing the moment and encouraging Iraqis to step up, the Bush administration and Senator McCain are refusing to embrace this transition — despite their previous commitments to respect the will of Iraq’s sovereign government. They call any timetable for the removal of American troops “surrender,” even though we would be turning Iraq over to a sovereign Iraqi government.
But this is not a strategy for success — it is a strategy for staying that runs contrary to the will of the Iraqi people, the American people and the security interests of the United States. That is why, on my first day in office, I would give the military a new mission: ending this war.
As I’ve said many times, we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. We can safely redeploy our combat brigades at a pace that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 — two years from now, and more than seven years after the war began. After this redeployment, a residual force in Iraq would perform limited missions: going after any remnants of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, protecting American service members and, so long as the Iraqis make political progress, training Iraqi security forces. That would not be a precipitous withdrawal.
In carrying out this strategy, we would inevitably need to make tactical adjustments. As I have often said, I would consult with commanders on the ground and the Iraqi government to ensure that our troops were redeployed safely, and our interests protected. We would move them from secure areas first and volatile areas later. We would pursue a diplomatic offensive with every nation in the region on behalf of Iraq’s stability, and commit $2 billion to a new international effort to support Iraq’s refugees.
Ending the war is essential to meeting our broader strategic goals, starting in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where the Taliban is resurgent and Al Qaeda has a safe haven. Iraq is not the central front in the war on terrorism, and it never has been. As Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, recently pointed out, we won’t have sufficient resources to finish the job in Afghanistan until we reduce our commitment to Iraq.
As president, I would pursue a new strategy, and begin by providing at least two additional combat brigades to support our effort in Afghanistan. We need more troops, more helicopters, better intelligence-gathering and more nonmilitary assistance to accomplish the mission there. I would not hold our military, our resources and our foreign policy hostage to a misguided desire to maintain permanent bases in Iraq.
In this campaign, there are honest differences over Iraq, and we should discuss them with the thoroughness they deserve. Unlike Senator McCain, I would make it absolutely clear that we seek no presence in Iraq similar to our permanent bases in South Korea, and would redeploy our troops out of Iraq and focus on the broader security challenges that we face. But for far too long, those responsible for the greatest strategic blunder in the recent history of American foreign policy have ignored useful debate in favor of making false charges about flip-flops and surrender.
It’s not going to work this time. It’s time to end this war.
Barack Obama, a United States senator from Illinois, is the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.
Comments
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A lot of the actual steps here (but not the rhetoric) sound much like what the NYT reported the Bush Administration saying yesterday...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/washington/13military.html -
daver wrote: A lot of the actual steps here (but not the rhetoric) sound much like what the NYT reported the Bush Administration saying yesterday...
Since when does what the Bush Administration says have anything to do with what their actual plans are?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/washington/13military.html -
completely overshadowed by the New Yorker cover.
of course, not that any attempt at providing substance won't be swept under the rug because it doesn't match the "HE NEVER PROVIDES DETAILS" storyline.....ir the 'THE MEDIA FAVORS OBAMA" storyline. -
Carnivore wrote: Since when does what the Bush Administration says have anything to do with what their actual plans are?
Not that I disagree, but given what we've seen so far from Obama, wire tapping immunity, public campaign financing, etc. even Iraq, one could say the same about him... -
daver wrote: [quote=Carnivore]Since when does what the Bush Administration says have anything to do with what their actual plans are?
Not that I disagree, but given what we've seen so far from Obama, wire tapping immunity, public campaign financing, etc. even Iraq, one could say the same about him...
I'm with you on FISA, but I think the public financing is a B.S. issue. It's not like Obama's campaign is being financed by his personal fortune, or huge PAC donations. The vast majority of his warchest comes from small donations by vast numbers of his supporters. The fact that he decided not to participate in the public financing doesn't bother me at all in light of this, since his campaign is already in a sense "publicly" financed. And Obama's position on Iraq has been more consistent than any other major candidate (although perhaps not as solid as Paul, Gravel and Kucinich). -
the fisa thing infuriates me. seriously. as a lawyer, even one who hasn't practiced in years, I just can't handle some bullshit fucking secret court with secret warrants and .... gah. I'll stop. makes me nuts. I'm so glad obama is being mostly consistent on the iraq issue and depends on $20 from everyone but seriously? every american should just scream about the fisa thing. it's horrible. it's been horrible for over 30 years and I refuse to accept it as necessary.
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oh, and yeah, because I have a big mouth and all that, fisa is something I'm certain has touched my life randomly these years. I don't care because I don't practice anymore but for chrissakes, when you know people are hacking your inbox it's kinda hard to ignore the fact that this exists and is completely inconsistent with the constitution.
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Carnivore wrote: I think the public financing is a B.S. issue. It's not like Obama's campaign is being financed by his personal fortune, or huge PAC donations. The vast majority of his warchest comes from small donations by vast numbers of his supporters. The fact that he decided not to participate in the public financing doesn't bother me at all in light of this, since his campaign is already in a sense "publicly" financed.
That isn't true. I can't post the links from my phone, but he is getting around the rules with "bundlers" (as is McCain to a lesser degree.) Additionally, despite his "transparency" pledges, non-partisan public watchdog groups have reported him LESS forthcoming with donor info than Bush or Cheney. Which is pretty scary.
And McCain sucks too, BTW. -
daver wrote: And McCain sucks too, BTW.
In big, 8-foot, HOLLYWOOD-style letters.
-
mccain is sucking most of middle america right now.
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daver wrote: [quote=Carnivore]Since when does what the Bush Administration says have anything to do with what their actual plans are?
Not that I disagree, but given what we've seen so far from Obama, wire tapping immunity, public campaign financing, etc. even Iraq, one could say the same about him...
Oh please.
Obama isn't even in the same universe as Bush's lies and deceit. -
Boygabriel wrote: [quote=daver][quote=Carnivore]Since when does what the Bush Administration says have anything to do with what their actual plans are?
Not that I disagree, but given what we've seen so far from Obama, wire tapping immunity, public campaign financing, etc. even Iraq, one could say the same about him...
Oh please.
Obama isn't even in the same universe as Bush's lies and deceit.
he's going there. it's unfortunate and scary, yeah. but it's true. he's trying to become more centrist. blech. -
daver wrote: A lot of the actual steps here (but not the rhetoric) sound much like what the NYT reported the Bush Administration saying yesterday...
You mean what anonymous administration officials were quoted by the NYTs as saying might happen at some distant point in the future?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/washington/13military.html
Unicorns for everyone!
Here's a good quote from that article:
The most optimistic course of events would still leave 120,000 to 130,000 American troops in Iraq. -
alafairnadia wrote: he's going there. it's unfortunate and scary, yeah. but it's true. he's trying to become more centrist. blech.
Obama has some centrist policies. But anybody who thought otherwise wasn't paying attention.
The cave-in to the telecom lobby on FISA is a tragedy but I think we're overreacting just a bit by mentioning him in the same breath as George Bush, as daver did above. -
Boygabriel wrote: [quote=alafairnadia]he's going there. it's unfortunate and scary, yeah. but it's true. he's trying to become more centrist. blech.
Obama has some centrist policies. But anybody who thought otherwise wasn't paying attention.
The cave-in to the telecom lobby on FISA is a tragedy but I think we're overreacting just a bit by mentioning him in the same breath as George Bush, as daver did above.
NO! he billed himself as a vague centrist that radical liberals could believe in. that's what, I'm guessing, folks like you bought in to. and that's awesome. it's a great bill. I was already committed to clinton - I went to wellesley - but I did buy the obama crack during his race for the senate. I appreciate his intelligence, wittiness and willingness not to be an asshole.
I'm NOT okay with anyone supporting FISA and I never will be. it pains my soul. and frankly, the cave-in? very bush like decision. GROSS. I want obama to set himself apart, figure it out, and be a better man than he's being right now. sorry, I'm cuban, have shared my secret service questioning story with too many people this week, and wanted clinton so no. I'm not into the freaking FISA compromise. never ever. I'll still vote for the guy but yeesh, he's not really making me feel "better". at all. -
and clinton is the reason for the record, btw. and I don't blame her - I was a dumbass. but still, it fucking puts me in FISA sights. and I do not want!
-
Boygabriel wrote: Obama isn't even in the same universe as Bush's lies and deceit.
Well, we appear to have been pretty well over FISA.
Public financing, pledged and signed on, jumped off when it was to his benefit. Would have crucified McCain for the same.
Anyone remember gun control?
What about the death penalty? He seems to be on three sides of _that_ issue, depending on when you catch him.
How about faith based initiatives? He's now come out in support of expanding Bush's programs there.
Is his pro-abortion stance softening? A direct break with his stance in "Audacity of Hope."
He is definitely softening on Iraq ("continue to refine policies.") I think he is testing the waters for wiggle room. Perhaps he won't find any and will stay his currently stated course (as opposed to the one he stated in '04.)
Of course there is the whole Union $$ thing, that one just seems to be a given that he is OK with it now. After railing against them as "special interests" when he wasn't the recipient, he is now "thrilled" with the support of the "working people."
Where is he at on Cuba today? I've lost track. First he was for lifting the embargo, flat out. Then he was for keeping it last year in Miama. But now he is discussing lifting it again, right? Just not in Miami, haha.
Illegal immigration, lets see. He _was_ categorically against cracking down on employers, but now I notice that his website says... "Crack Down on Employers: Obama championed a proposal to create a system so employers can verify that their employees are legally eligible to work in the U.S."
Not that he is worse than anyone else, blah blah blah, not that I think that we wouldn't be better off baking Obama waffles than _anything_ McCain might care to serve up, ketchup or not.
Just sayin', ya know?
-
Boygabriel wrote: You mean what anonymous administration officials were quoted by the NYTs as saying might happen at some distant point in the future?
Let's face it, Bush isn't going to do shit. His term is over, Rover. But if you want some of the parallels between what the Bush administration laid out on Sunday against what Obama popped out with on Monday, here ya go. THey both talk about the Iraqi security forces getting stronger, enabling more troops to be pulling out. They both say this is good, because they can send them to Afghanistan. WooHoo. Let's blow up some more motherfuckers, right? Anyhow, here is where they differ, Obama wants to put at least two brigades into Afghanistan, whereas the Bush plan calls for one to three. Er, wait. Maybe I missed something.
Unicorns for everyone!
Here's a good quote from that article:
The most optimistic course of events would still leave 120,000 to 130,000 American troops in Iraq.
In the meantime, Bush is pulling three brigades, then pausing per General Petraeus’s recommendation. Whereas Obama has recently said regarding his first trip to Iraq, that he will "continue to refine" his policies in light of what he learns there. Wow, that sounds a LOT like maybe listening to the general's recommendation? Maybe? Well, we'll see. One can keep hope alive!
-
alafairnadia wrote: [quote=Boygabriel][quote=alafairnadia]he's going there. it's unfortunate and scary, yeah. but it's true. he's trying to become more centrist. blech.
Obama has some centrist policies. But anybody who thought otherwise wasn't paying attention.
The cave-in to the telecom lobby on FISA is a tragedy but I think we're overreacting just a bit by mentioning him in the same breath as George Bush, as daver did above.
NO! he billed himself as a vague centrist that radical liberals could believe in. that's what, I'm guessing, folks like you bought in to. and that's awesome. it's a great bill. I was already committed to clinton - I went to wellesley - but I did buy the obama crack during his race for the senate. I appreciate his intelligence, wittiness and willingness not to be an asshole.
I'm NOT okay with anyone supporting FISA and I never will be. it pains my soul. and frankly, the cave-in? very bush like decision. GROSS. I want obama to set himself apart, figure it out, and be a better man than he's being right now. sorry, I'm cuban, have shared my secret service questioning story with too many people this week, and wanted clinton so no. I'm not into the freaking FISA compromise. never ever. I'll still vote for the guy but yeesh, he's not really making me feel "better". at all.
Obama's FISA cave-in pains my soul too. But again, the way daver compared him to Bush's 7 1/2 years of lies was a misleading exaggeration, to say the least.
As for Obama's 'rush to the center', I'm still letting the dust settle before I decide he's sold out angry Democrats like myself. -
daver wrote: Just sayin', ya know?
comparing him to Bush is not 'just sayin'
*shrug* -
Boygabriel wrote: [quote=daver]Just sayin', ya know?
comparing him to Bush is not 'just sayin'
*shrug*
I just gave you forty thousand words why I said it. Um. Hello? Is this thing on?
-
daver wrote: [quote=Boygabriel]You mean what anonymous administration officials were quoted by the NYTs as saying might happen at some distant point in the future?
Let's face it, Bush isn't going to do shit. His term is over, Rover. But if you want some of the parallels between what the Bush administration laid out on Sunday against what Obama popped out with on Monday, here ya go. THey both talk about the Iraqi security forces getting stronger, enabling more troops to be pulling out. They both say this is good, because they can send them to Afghanistan. WooHoo. Let's blow up some more motherfuckers, right? Anyhow, here is where they differ, Obama wants to put at least two brigades into Afghanistan, whereas the Bush plan calls for one to three. Er, wait. Maybe I missed something.
Unicorns for everyone!
Here's a good quote from that article:
The most optimistic course of events would still leave 120,000 to 130,000 American troops in Iraq.
In the meantime, Bush is pulling three brigades, then pausing per General Petraeus’s recommendation. Whereas Obama has recently said regarding his first trip to Iraq, that he will "continue to refine" his policies in light of what he learns there. Wow, that sounds a LOT like maybe listening to the general's recommendation? Maybe? Well, we'll see. One can keep hope alive! 
Obama and Bush may be using the same language when they talk about Iraq, but do you really think that if they were elected president, Obama and McCain (aka Bush Jr) would pursue similar policies in Iraq?
I don't. -
Boygabriel wrote: Obama and Bush may be using the same language when they talk about Iraq, but do you really think that if they were elected president, Obama and McCain (aka Bush Jr) would pursue similar policies in Iraq?
So, um, does this mean that you have come round to agreeing with my initial statement then? Here is a refresher:
I don't.
"A lot of the actual steps here (but not the rhetoric) sound much like what the NYT reported the Bush Administration saying yesterday..."
I said they SOUND ALIKE. You just said they are USING THE SAME LANGUAGE.
So first, I would say that I continue to stand by my original statement.
Second, I would say that McCain is not Bush jr.
Third, I would say that I hope McCain and Obama would pursue different policies in Iraq. I don't like that McCain & Bush are starting to throw off Obama lines regarding it, and that Obama is starting to throw off their lines. That sucks. I think that ultimately Obama would pursue a different path, if only because he is going to get fucking crucified if he doesn't. And _that_ bothers me too, the fear that he follows paths only based on the direction of the wind. I like his breeze better than the alternatives though, by far. -
daver wrote: [quote=Boygabriel][quote=daver]Just sayin', ya know?
comparing him to Bush is not 'just sayin'
*shrug*
I just gave you forty thousand words why I said it. Um. Hello? Is this thing on?
Oh I read all your words. The similarities between Bush and Obama just aren't as obvious as you act like they are. -
daver wrote: [quote=Boygabriel]Obama and Bush may be using the same language when they talk about Iraq, but do you really think that if they were elected president, Obama and McCain (aka Bush Jr) would pursue similar policies in Iraq?
So, um, does this mean that you have come round to agreeing with my initial statement then? Here is a refresher:
I don't.
"A lot of the actual steps here (but not the rhetoric) sound much like what the NYT reported the Bush Administration saying yesterday..."
I said they SOUND ALIKE. You just said they are USING THE SAME LANGUAGE.
So first, I would say that I continue to stand by my original statement.
No, it means I don't see much point in continuing to argue about whether Obama's stated policies are similar in word choice to anonymous sources in the administration and guesswork at what Bush might do in the future.
The point is that Obama and the Dems would pursue noticeably different foreign policy from McBush, especially with regards to Iraq. So a study of word choice only has so much importance to me. After that I'd prefer to talk about what the candidates would actually do.daver wrote:
On Iraq it sure seems like he is.
Second, I would say that McCain is not Bush jr.daver wrote:
Personally I care far more about actually getting out of the disaster that is Iraq, not whether the person engineering it (Obama) truly believes in what he's doing.
Third, I would say that I hope McCain and Obama would pursue different policies in Iraq. I don't like that McCain & Bush are starting to throw off Obama lines regarding it, and that Obama is starting to throw off their lines. That sucks. I think that ultimately Obama would pursue a different path, if only because he is going to get fucking crucified if he doesn't. And _that_ bothers me too, the fear that he follows paths only based on the direction of the wind. I like his breeze better than the alternatives though, by far.
Obama is no more of a panderer than any other politician, especially one running as a party nominee for president. So given that, let's get the hell out of Iraq and stop talking about undefined "victory", as Bush and McCain are so fond of doing. -
Boygabriel wrote: No, it means I don't see much point in continuing to argue about whether Obama's stated policies are similar in word choice to anonymous sources in the administration and guesswork at what Bush might do in the future.
As opposed to what Obama might do?
The point is that Obama and the Dems would pursue noticeably different foreign policy from McBush, especially with regards to Iraq. So a study of word choice only has so much importance to me. After that I'd prefer to talk about what the candidates would actually do.
Good point. Of course we have _no idea_ what they would actually do, especially with each of them pedalling so quickly in the other's direction currently.daver wrote: Second, I would say that McCain is not Bush jr.
On Iraq it sure seems like he is.
Well, obviously there aren't going to be huge glaring differences, seeing as they are both Republican (Maverick label be damned! haha) and support the platform. I think you'll find Obama's stance on Iraq fairly consistent with the Democrat's as well. Well, I mean Kerry voted to pull the troops out and Obama voted against doing it, but besides minor differences like that...
One good thing about McCain is his pledge to shut down Guantanamo on day one if he is elected. We'll see how long he sticks to that one...
Personally I care far more about actually getting out of the disaster that is Iraq, not whether the person engineering it (Obama) truly believes in what he's doing.
I would agree that Obama is as much of a panderer as any other politician, and I'm glad that you recognize that. The only thing making it a bit more offensive from him was all the crap about change, and how things were going to be different. Oh well.
Obama is no more of a panderer than any other politician, especially one running as a party nominee for president. So given that, let's get the hell out of Iraq and stop talking about undefined "victory", as Bush and McCain are so fond of doing. -
daver wrote: The only thing making it a bit more offensive from him was all the crap about change, and how things were going to be different. Oh well.
I don't see how you could possibly think that Obama wouldn't be a major change from the past 7 years. Things will be different. He's not a superhero, and he still has to get elected or he won't be able to do anything. And part of engaging the other side to get things accomplished is making some compromises. I think everyone here agrees that he made the wrong decision on FISA. That doesn't make him "the same" as Bush, Cheney, Rove, McCain, and company. -
And by the way, did anyone see that clip of McCain on the Daily Show last night? I seriously think McCain is starting to suffer from dementia. I actually felt sorry for the bastard.
-
Carnivore wrote: [quote=daver]The only thing making it a bit more offensive from him was all the crap about change, and how things were going to be different. Oh well.
I don't see how you could possibly think that Obama wouldn't be a major change from the past 7 years. Things will be different. He's not a superhero, and he still has to get elected or he won't be able to do anything. And part of engaging the other side to get things accomplished is making some compromises. I think everyone here agrees that he made the wrong decision on FISA. That doesn't make him "the same" as Bush, Cheney, Rove, McCain, and company.
I never said he would be the same in terms of policy. Although I _will_ say that he is the same in terms of being a slimy double talking politician. The change we can believe in was being sold as a detour from the old style politics, which it obviously isn't. There will obviously be change if he is elected, just like there would be if any Democrat gets back into the office. But it will still be politics as usual. *shrug* -
NY Daily - Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq
Barack Obama's campaign scrubbed his presidential Web site over the weekend to remove criticism of the U.S. troop "surge" in Iraq, the Daily News has learned.
The presumed Democratic nominee replaced his Iraq issue Web page, which had described the surge as a "problem" that had barely reduced violence.
"The surge is not working," Obama's old plan stated, citing a lack of Iraqi political cooperation but crediting Sunni sheiks - not U.S. military muscle - for quelling violence in Anbar Province.
The News reported Sunday that insurgent attacks have fallen to the fewest since March 2004.
Obama's campaign posted a new Iraq plan Sunday night, which cites an "improved security situation" paid for with the blood of U.S. troops since the surge began in February 2007.
It praises G.I.s' "hard work, improved counterinsurgency tactics and enormous sacrifice."
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