BK Flea in trouble?

Hi,
I do not think it is just parking spaces (although, if you lived near by there and can't park your car because of illegally put up signs that have no permits to back them up, you would be pissed too)

Here are some other issues:

-littering
-people sitting on your stoop and leaning on your fence chatting loudly like it was a bar (it is my home, not a social club)
-peeing and pooping on the street (honestly, a neighbor saw a woman let her child shit on the street and then did not clean it up) (also happens with dogs)
-going into the church across the street during services to use their bathrooms
- increased foot traffic on what was a quiet block
-bikes chained to your fence

I like the idea of the flea, but there are some issues that are not being addressed.

I'm not a big fan of the flea market (and I refuse to call it "The Flea" does everything have to have some kind of ridiculous "hip" name?). They should find a location better suited for all the foot/car traffic. The immediate area is not in dire need of the economic stimulus the flea market's advocates keep mentioning. The Navy Yard, Columbia Street in Red Hook, or somewhere in Bed Stuy would be better locations.

Brownstoner simply needs to find a way to resolve these concerns. He needs to get some port-o-potties or make a deal with the school to use their restrooms and have the hallway to the restroom guarded. He should work with the city to get a row of bike racks put up alongside the fence on the sidewalk. Parking is a tough one, especially considering the vendors. That said, it seems like local people would find spots easily once the space clears at 5pm and all of the vendors leave. Whatever the case, there are always a few squeaky wheels who want to make a big deal about things and get some press coverage. This is not ridiculous like Atlantic Yards or seedy like strip clubs. Those are things that truly disrupt a neighborhood and change it's face indefinitely. We're talking about a Sunday flea market, folks, with artists' goods, food, and cool antique stuff. The people who are upset are just looking to make an occasional inconvenience into a big problem. I own a house a few blocks away. Mind you, I don't own a car, but I like the flea market. (BTW, I agree with the poster who refuses to call it "the flea". That's just a silly name.) I like having the neighborhood full on Sundays. I like that friends want to come and have brunch with me in my neighborhood on Sunday. I like the vibe of the place. I like that the school is making some extra cash. I like that local artists are supported. I like that I bump into my neighbors there. It's excellent.

Yes they are less accessible and that's the point... To get people out to neighborhoods with less foot traffic. They are still struggling a bit and in need of some kind of attraction to act as an economic stimulus. If the flea market is as good as many seem to think it is shoppers will come. If you've ever been to the fields in Red Hook there are plenty of people who visit every week for food from the Latin American vendors regardless of the public transport situation.

Fort Greene/Clinton Hill isn't in any dire financial situation. The neighborhood is already quite popular. You can't even hang out here on the weekends anymore... I know it's a NIMBY argument. Not one of the issues I'm most concerned about but I'm just not a fan. Personally, I don't like the neighborhood to be crowded beyond the people who actually live here. Lower population density is one of Brooklyn's most appealing factors relative to Manhattan. I don't want the neighborhood to become the constant tourist attraction that is Manhattan...

Subject: No Dogs @ "The Flea"

pastoralia wrote: It should be over not allowing dogs.

Give your head a shake. Dogs don't belong inside a flea market.

They're enough of an issue at the Green Market on Saturdays when people aren't responsible enough to keep them close by their side while their trying to pick up some goods.

They have absolutely no place at popular flea market.

And before you go there...I happen to own two dogs.

Seems to me that not having portapotties is an oversight by the organizer.

Subject: BK Flea in Trouble?

Actually the Old Girls High would be ideal. However, I will bet a move to Bed-Stuy will never happen.

The meeting started to get into a vendor vs. neighbors thing. This is not the problem. (Some vendor- I hope I find out which one- told my sister that she was a horrible person and accused her of wanting him to lose his home? What kind of crazy logic is that?) I think most of the neighbors do not have a problem with the vendors, but with the way it is being run. And the lack of thoughtfulness about the immediate area.

Yes- it is a business, but it is in a residential district.
They can put it next to their house. Or up the street from their house.

Peace and quiet is what made Brooklyn so desirable in the first place. And it is not a dream. (I think it exists 6 days a week)

Every school needs money, but the school is private. Why don't they donate the money to a public school which really needs the money?

2 Porto potties for 20K people- great- they should get more.

If you have 2 days off every week to relax and one of those days was disturbed every week. Does it make that "one day" count more or less? Just because it is "only one day" doesn't make better. It is one of the days that most people have off.

granted, i've only been to the flea once, but 20K people? really? all in the same week?

"The Flea" is claiming 20K people come, so I am using their numbers :pl:

The area is zoned R6B for a reason. It's residential and historical. A large commercial venture such as the flea market is just out of place there. It's just not the right location. I'm all for local small businesses thriving but given the success of the market and the number of visitors, the space they are using is just not large enough. The immediate vicinity is not well suited for all the foot traffic and it's consequences (noise, traffic, parking problems, trash, etc). Thousands of people basically standing in front of your house all day is definitely going to disrupt your usually tranquil Sunday. I live very close and I can tell this is a quiet area (again it's zoned residential and landmarked so there's not a lot of commercial traffic).

Does anyone realize that the organizers, Jonathan Butler and Eric Demby, are the greatest beneficiaries of the flea market? Demby and Butler described themselves last night as business partners. How much are these two men making from this flea market at the expense of their neighbors, who Butler himself said he met for the first time after four years in this neighborhood? Does anyone realize the divisiveness caused by these two men stating that the flea market is multi-cultural (their opposition is more so), or scaring the vendors into thinking they are anathema to Fort Greene, or waving the gentrification and NIMBY flags? These two men say they are helping Bishop Loughlin High School and Fort Greene by doling out a few jobs and paying rent to Loughlin, but they are actually helping themselves, while they and our elected officials manipulate all the little guys to fight one another - vendors, residents, church-goers, Bishop Loughlin High School, local churches, local business, etc. Butler and Demby will remain squeaky clean because they and you will make puppets out of all of us if we let them. Did anyone else see Eric Demby shake his head when one person suggested scaling the Brooklyn Flea down in size? It's his and Butler's pockets that would be hurt the most by such a change. Let these two put it a block from their homes and then let's see if the neighbors would be happy.

Tish James mentioned to me in discussion immediately after the meeting that taxpayer dollars are going to pay for the renovation of Loughlin's track, where the Brooklyn Flea is presently located, and that Loughlin intends to then open it to the public (after 40 years with Loughlin and the Diocese as my neighbors, I'll believe it when I see it). If Loughlin is such a concern for Demby and Butler, let them pay for the renovation of the space they are using for their business venture, just as local small businesses, not their landlords, pay for renovations to the spaces they rent. Of everyone involved, Demby and Butler are reaping the greatest financial benefits from the Brooklyn Flea, not Loughlin, not the vendors or local business, and, now, not the taxpayers.

This primarily residential section of Fort Greene is not designed for the once-a-week influx of 10,000+ flea market patrons. The environmental impact (buildings, streets, existing infrastructure, etc.) of so many people coming to this neighborhood by foot, bike, car and truck has not truly been taken into account. The 26th Street Flea Market was in a more commercial area and has now been transplanted to a residential section of Fort Greene, a section that is not equipped to handle this much commercial activity. Move Brooklyn Flea to a section of Fort Greene or Clinton Hill that truly needs the economic support, particularly Fulton Street between Clinton and Bedford which has been hit so hard by street reconstruction, and Fulton is right on the A/C line. The businesses on Dekalb and Lafayette will still get their customers, the flea market's patrons are not going to Fulton Street, we all know these things. Question: What other locations were considered before deciding on Bishop Loughlin?

Many of Fort Greene's streets, Clermont among them, going northbound from Fulton, are closed to through-traffic, except for deliveries. With that in mind, this section of Fort Greene is simply not designed to handle this high volume. We're all for local businesses and business owners, including the Brooklyn Flea's vendors - we've supported our own for years.

Just move the Brooklyn Flea to a more suitable location.

Of course, I realize all of your points, Jeffrey, even that the Brooklyn Flea is not breaking even at this early stage. I simply think they should move to a location better suited to their volume.

What people may not have truly recognized last night was how we were guilted and manipulated into working against one another by the major players, including our elected officials. We are all being used.

As far as I'm concerned, if they must, let them finish out their contract with the high school and move elsewhere. The Brooklyn Flea will be even more established by then and will be of greater benefit to an area which truly needs the economic stimulus.