Park Slope Parents Threatening Bloggers Again
Park Slope Parents are at it again, suggesting that quoting their emails without permission is "against the law." Given that their stuff floats freely through the blogosphere and some of the biggest violators of their own "privacy policy" are their own members, it's interesting. Not only are they coming down against First Amendment rights, they're misleading their members into thinking that quoting emails violates copyright. It does not. There's clear legal precedent for quoting things. Here's the latest threat, which really, affects all of us and is part of a much broader pattern of people coming after blogs and websites that don't have a big staff of lawyers. In the biz, it's called trying to have a chilling effect. If you're afraid someone is going to sue you and even though you know you'll win, are you willing to spend $20K on a lawyer defending yourself over a dumb email? (These are emails, people, not unpublished drafts of The Old Man & the Sea.) On the other hand, they'll have to spend a lot on a lawyer too, so maybe it's like Mutually Assured Destruction. It's just irksome because their attitude is so arrogant. To all those who find interesting PSP emails, I say, post them everywhere. Let's create a blog that does nothing but repost PSP emails, host it on a server in Taiwan that is behind their grubby, litigious reach and drive them insane. In the meantime, shame on a supposedly liberal group treating freedom of speech with less respect than George Bush. Truly, there is no other similar group in Brooklyn that has issued "do not publish" threats to the blogging community. (On the other hand, there are few that so regularly end up on Gawker because of the colorful nature of the content.) Whenever a group has 6,200 members, it's rather hard to keep communications "private" and to keep things from being forwarded and posted all over the planet. Here's the vaguely threatening email:
Park Slope Parents is a members-only, private community that is growing
every day. Non-members cannot freely access or search the archives, but that doesn't mean that messages aren't forwarded or that there aren't members on the list who are journalists—whether legitimate or unscrupulous. At the last count we had more than 6,200 members on the MAIN Yahoo! discussion group.
WHAT IS PSP'S POLICY ON LIFTED POSTS?
Our policy on lifting content is consistent with Yahoo's Groups Terms of Service, and every message goes out with the following disclaimer:
"Ownership (and therefore responsibility) of all content lies with the author of the post. Content on this group is not to be copied, reproduced or linked to without expressed permission of the author."
We are disheartened when blogs lift PSP posts without permission because it affects our community—and in negative ways. Quoting people without their knowledge or permission goes against the spirit of community most members of the list have helped to create and discourages our members' openness and honesty.
We can't stop people from writing about "discussions" on the list. Sometimes such coverage is positive and informative. But, bloggers have
been lifting full (copyrighted) posts without the authors' permission. As Laura says, it is making people think twice about posting.
As moderators, it is not always easy to tell who is responsible. We would like it to stop.
WHAT ARE THE LEGAL ISSUES?
The legal facts as we understand them are these:
* Reproducing copyrighted material without permission is against the law.
* You own the copyright on your PSP posts.
WHAT CAN YOU DO?
Of course, not everyone who lifts content does so with malicious intent. Some of the discussions on the list can be inspiring in a positive way, and at times, a poster may not mind when his/her posts appear elsewhere.
HOWEVER, if you DON'T want your post reproduced and if someone has quoted you or simply lifted your post without permission, you should FIRST ask that the material be removed from the blog. (We have had bloggers who just weren't aware that the list was a private community and were very willing to remove the content). Feel free to email us your message so we know you've contacted the blogger. If a request doesn't work, there are other steps you can take depending on the situation.
Finally…Please don't forward messages to people who may misuse them. If you have a blog (and they're multiplying like rabbits), please ask permission from the author before publishing a message or a portion of a message that was posted to Park Slope Parents.
We would like the list, with its quirkiness and sometimes silly questions and discussions, to continue to be a safe environment for people to be awkward, sometimes obsessed parents. Ultimately we hope the collective wisdom that prevails on the list will help us all to be a little more sane everywhere else. Without that safety, the list suffers and the road of parenting becomes even more challenging.
Park Slope Parents is a members-only, private community that is growing
every day. Non-members cannot freely access or search the archives, but that doesn't mean that messages aren't forwarded or that there aren't members on the list who are journalists—whether legitimate or unscrupulous. At the last count we had more than 6,200 members on the MAIN Yahoo! discussion group.
WHAT IS PSP'S POLICY ON LIFTED POSTS?
Our policy on lifting content is consistent with Yahoo's Groups Terms of Service, and every message goes out with the following disclaimer:
"Ownership (and therefore responsibility) of all content lies with the author of the post. Content on this group is not to be copied, reproduced or linked to without expressed permission of the author."
We are disheartened when blogs lift PSP posts without permission because it affects our community—and in negative ways. Quoting people without their knowledge or permission goes against the spirit of community most members of the list have helped to create and discourages our members' openness and honesty.
We can't stop people from writing about "discussions" on the list. Sometimes such coverage is positive and informative. But, bloggers have
been lifting full (copyrighted) posts without the authors' permission. As Laura says, it is making people think twice about posting.
As moderators, it is not always easy to tell who is responsible. We would like it to stop.
WHAT ARE THE LEGAL ISSUES?
The legal facts as we understand them are these:
* Reproducing copyrighted material without permission is against the law.
* You own the copyright on your PSP posts.
WHAT CAN YOU DO?
Of course, not everyone who lifts content does so with malicious intent. Some of the discussions on the list can be inspiring in a positive way, and at times, a poster may not mind when his/her posts appear elsewhere.
HOWEVER, if you DON'T want your post reproduced and if someone has quoted you or simply lifted your post without permission, you should FIRST ask that the material be removed from the blog. (We have had bloggers who just weren't aware that the list was a private community and were very willing to remove the content). Feel free to email us your message so we know you've contacted the blogger. If a request doesn't work, there are other steps you can take depending on the situation.
Finally…Please don't forward messages to people who may misuse them. If you have a blog (and they're multiplying like rabbits), please ask permission from the author before publishing a message or a portion of a message that was posted to Park Slope Parents.
We would like the list, with its quirkiness and sometimes silly questions and discussions, to continue to be a safe environment for people to be awkward, sometimes obsessed parents. Ultimately we hope the collective wisdom that prevails on the list will help us all to be a little more sane everywhere else. Without that safety, the list suffers and the road of parenting becomes even more challenging.
Comments
-
This might actually be playing out slightly different than you imagine.
Their claim is that the individual poster, NOT PSP, retains the copyright.
I don't read from the above that PSP is threatening to sue anyone. How would PSP even have proper standing to sue, regarding content they freely admit isn't theirs in the first place?
I actually read the above as merely a reminder for folks about list rules and to think twice about simply posting anything they see on the list, and specifically to ask permission of the individual poster to re-use that poster's words.
People can agree with that or not, but I would mention that if something is mentioned in the Terms of Use of of a service, and if a subscriber agrees to those terms by subscribing, well...sorry. That has nothing to do with free speech anymore.
Not defending anyone here, just not reading the imminent threat of lawsuits from the above that the OP sees present, and just pointing out that Terms of Service of online communities are not places where one might reasonably expect anything like the First Amendment. -
Exactly, Jeffrey, they're trying to encourage individual posters to go after bloggers. Much of what comes up online doesn't come directly from group members, except for at least one prominent offender whose violations of the rules have been ignored. The issue is their emails, which are forwarded all over the place. Reporters and bloggers certainly aren't bound by their rules if they're not subscribers and the law allows things like emails to be excerpted or quoted in full.
-
rant much?
-
While I do think there have been some hilarious threads on Park Slope Parents that probably merit and need ridicule....I don't think it is right to lift someone's post and (especially their name) without permission on a "private" list serve that requires you to sign your name to your post. I mean, doesn't common sense and privacy and decency play a role here? I am not arguing first amendment blah blah blah, just courtesy.
-
I think "Fair use" prevails here...
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
"Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered “fair,” such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.
Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 40K All Categories
- 27.1K Neighborhoods
- 5.1K Crown Heights/Prospect Lefferts Gardens
- 7.1K Prospect Heights
- 2.3K Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy
- 8K Park Slope
- 549 Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Bushwick
- 442 Flatbush/Midwood/Ditmas Park
- 657 BoCoCa (Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens)
- 151 Red Hook
- 104 Gowanus
- 304 Bay Ridge/Bensonhurst
- 130 Coney Island, Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay
- 270 Brooklyn Heights, DUMBO and Downtown
- 598 Windsor Terrace / Kensington
- 673 Greenwood Heights and Sunset Park
- 749 Brooklyn and Beyond
- 6.3K Stuff
- 86 Brooklyn Back When
- 1.2K Brooklyn Pets
- 257 Brooklyn Kids
- 241 Brooklyn Eats
- 51 Brooklyn Booze
- 3.6K The Lounge / Random Stuff
- 611 Brooklyn Politics
- 122 Brooklyn Sports and Fitness
- 111 Brooklyn Photos
- 339 Site Issues
- 8 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- 6.2K Listings
- 1.1K APARTMENTS and REAL ESTATE
- 1.3K Sales Openings Events
- 2.3K The Classifieds

