BK Flea in trouble?

By the way, my apologies for my tone above.

I blame lack of beer.

I agree that location may be a totally valid issue, and I s'pose one learns as one goes in trying new ventures.

Not sure about the manipulation factor, will have to consider that a bit.

Totally agree with your last point, if a new location would be more ideal for all.

The sidewalks in this area have to be the widest I have ever seen. And I don't know what impact the flea is having on other infrastructure - buildings? They walk by the buildings. If people want peace and quiet they should move to the boondocks. This is commercial activity during daylight hours. Roll on Flea.

Saint James Infirmary, I' ll be sure to join you in the picket line if...

One should think the Catholic Church has other issues to resolve but now this one found the perfect Beelzebub for all their woes.

sydney 28 has it right. The Flea should be moved to another location more suitable for the flow of large crowds, etc. Butler and Demby should not be allowed to profit at the expense of the quality of life of the residents of FG/CH. On another note, take a look at the vendor list for the Flea the majority of vendors are not Brooklyn-based enterprises. Please explain how this Flea is benefitting the community. Either move the Flea or cut back on the duration. Have it twice a month, once a month and change it to Saturdays.

chinadoll,

The location issue may be worth a debate, but as others pointed out, that may just underscore the current location as the best one for a number of reasons.

The concept of Butler and Demby profiting at the expense of the community is a joke. First, what profit. This is without a doubt a huge financial commitment and drain for them, especially considering the more expensive, social-mission approach they have taken to be more sensitive to the needs of the community, in addition to whatever additional expenses have been added due to feedback from the community since opening. Second, these folks are absolutely not the insensitive invader profiteers. They employ people from the community to help run it, and there are MANY MANY MANY local vendors there, if you actually went there and talked to people you'd see that many are local crafts and food providers.

How is it benefiting the community? Read the NY Times article. It is a huge new windfall for local businesses (specifics in article), all these folks walking around the neighborhood supporting local shops with actual reports of much higher sales, which certainly helps these stores fend off rising rents and chain stores. It provides part-time jobs for local people. Those are all local Brooklyn food merchants (including the Red Hook folks that need support right now, given massive new equipment expenses imposed on them by the city). Eh, re-read the reports and articles above.

Here's what I really find amusing:

1) ALL flea markets are run by somebody that has to pay for and organize them. This is not a new concept. But for some reason the fear and disinformation mongers here are portraying the fact that there is a business operation behind this as if it were corporate fat-cats out to destroy the community to enrich themselves. Get real. Mere fear-mongering.

2) On that note, folks can't even realize that the folks behind this are the good guys. They are not typical flea market operators cutting corners at everyone's expense and running it into the ground for sheer maximum profit. They committed from the get-go to more costly (for them) approaches that better support the community. Yet another false claim made for sheer sensationalism and shock value.

I think Fan has this 100% correct: these folks don't like all these new faces walking about, and have found the perfect scapegoat and Beelzebub in this flea market. I was very disturbed to see how the excuse of the Sabbath was used as the thin veil to cover all the anti-semitism and general xenophobia present (and I have no horse in the race here, am a Protestant hah).

Why aren't they protesting Saturday sports games at the same location as disruptive to the community?

And again, back to the Sabbath thing...churches all across this country have outdoor crafts fairs etc. on Sundays. Even Jesus did not object to this. he only objected to merchants *inside* the Temple(not across the way, on someone else's property altogether). And there are many, many, many many other stores open in the neighborhood. OMG! CALL THE POPE! SHUT THEM DOWN, TOO!

So the Sabbath claim thing is a sham, just a cover for all the combined NIMBYism (in a huge city, no less), xenophobia, anger at gentrification and other obvious ills that announced themselves quite clearly at this meeting from which the press was supposed to be banned in an attempt by these folks to keep the rest of the Brooklyn and NYC community from knowing what's really behind their opinions.

One question: With so many other stores and markets open on Sundays, why object solely to this market, and why now?

You had better believe that if this was their Church's crafts market or church sports league or whatever that they would be the first ones out there defending it and claiming the benefits to the community, and that it shines a positive spotlight on the community that is appreciated by the whole city, beyond just Brooklyn.

But since it's not theirs (despite the flea market's best efforts to be inclusive...)...well, I'll just leave it at that.

As for location, I am going on Sunday, with an eye for examining this exact issue, which is the only one I think may at all be worth a debate here.

Jeffrey, I doubt very seriously that the whole concept of the flea was done out of a sense of the benefit it would bring to the community. As for the social approach, perhaps, if they had taken into consideration the issues raised regarding trash, increased vehicular and foot traffic, inconvenience to the people who actually live on the block, etc. Then one could speak to their sensitivity of the impact the Flea would have on the comunity at large. The business owner quoted in the NYT article was "Tillie's" one business. For those who don't live in the area maybe having a site to explore on a leisurely Sunday is great. But, for those who must endure this event each week, the impact is not pleasant. Again, as it relates to compromise, move the Flea, change the day, shorten the hours and/or the occurrence.

Jeffrey wrote:

"All the things you mention are things that go along with any outdoor thing. Should they shut down the St. James Block Association block party today? Or that Clinton Hill Chill event thing? No, matters of garbage etc, are matters that can be fixed."

The above events that you speak of happen once a year. Quite a contrast to the Flea. These events are not business enterprises. They are events that are sponsored for the sole purpose of bringing block and community residents together to have fun.

Jeffrey wrote: "Not reasons to brand these two particular individuals as devils and rip off the scabs of other sensitive issues in order to shut down this location because some consider it "inconvenient."

Never branded the individuals as devils (that's your statement).
I simply stated that the reasons behind their endeavor was business related not a "feel good" social experiment.

Do you live in the neighborhood??

For those interested, here is another blog RECLAIMEDHOME. And someone who attended the meeting wrote an interesting comment.

http://reclaimedhome.com/2008/07/25/brooklyn-flea-vs-the-church-round-1/

Redsauce, as a non-Christian, I wish more of your brethren had as great an attitude as you.

Everything can be viewed as either a threat or an opportunity.

Sounds like one church is viewing the influx of people as an opportunity while the other is viewing them as a threat. Don't you need people to have a church? Seems to me that it's a great opportunity to do some Christian outreach by the folks at QAS.

I live on Clinton & Lafayette. While it's true that the first couple weeks of the Flea brought a crazy amount of traffic to the area, it is SO much less crazy now. I was speaking to one of the vendors today and he noted such a decrease in business that he's considering not coming back. Which would be a damn shame. These are LOCAL small businesses with booths, people! And they all bring people into other nearby small businesses! Shocking to me that something so benign, and actually helpful to the local community, could cause such problems.